Mobile welding booth on the super cheap

[WisdomWarlord]

I want to be able to set up a welding booth anyplace I go. My method of welding is going tp be carbon arc and regular arc. I need it to be cheap and not too bulky.

The booths I've used were commercial curtains that I never paid any more attention to that what it took to close the curtain before I struck an arc.

The commercial stuff I've seen is really expensive for my budget.
I'm hoping to do this for under $100.

I have everything to actually weld, but nothing to shield others from the light. I also don't have any protective gear besides the mask and welding gloves.

So what are some suggestions for a mobile welding booth on the super cheap?
What do I need?

I did consider black bed-sheets but I'm pretty sure they would go up in flames too easily. I'm also not sure they would shield enough for the brightness of a carbon arc flame.

Thanks

[ThomasPowers]

Since you are in the USA; look up the cost of a several million dollar liability insurance policy---don't forget to mention to the agent you plan to use un-certified equipment.

This may put the cost of effective shielding in perspective.

 

 Of course it you do serious damage to someone's eyes with arc burn expect to be giving them 1/3 of your income for the rest of your life...

[WisdomWarlord]

Hmm. Interesting response ThomasPower. Especially since I thought that my desire was pretty clear. Maybe it isnt. So I'll state it even more clearly.
I want to make a mobile welding booth that is cost effective, and safe. Safe for me. Safe for the stuff around me and the booth. And safe for the people around who are nor protected by proper safety gear.
As for uncertified equipment, uncertified does not equal unsafe any more than certified equals safe.
If you believe otherwise, maybe you should be the one to expect to be giving someone 1/3 of your income for the rest of YOUR life...

Now, do you have anything of value to add regarding my post, or are you just the forum OSHA representative?
Next.

 

You may wish to think about what Mr Powers said and why he said it, before you get the foot in any deeper

[John McPherson]

Thomas was being kind. I do this stuff for a living, and would not touch this subject with a ten foot pole. If it was not so scary, it would be youTube gold. Where angels fear to tread, etc.....

 

I think many on this forum have read your posts, rolled their eyes, and moved on.  They say if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything.

 

So, hows the weather in Detroit?

[Jim Coke]

Greetings Wisdom,

 

Got to go with John on the 10 foot pole..  The only thing I would suggest is to program your cell phone speed dial for  EMS .. The fire department  and the hospital..  Never discount wisdom..

 

Forge on and make beautiful things

Jim

[WisdomWarlord]

Well, it's pretty obvious I'm green on the matter. Since Thomas' post added nothing of actual value, nothing to actually help, I too was being kind. When I see misguided questions about my areas of expertise, I do not respond with a dismissive eye roll or clearly useless information. Instead, I start with helping the OP understand why its misguided, and might even offer alternative information to help the OP not remain misguided. But, what do I know.

The weather is pretty good here, comparatively speaking. A bit windy but the wind ain't carrying feet and feet of snow anymore, so I'll take it!

[DSW]

I don't know of anyone who still does professional mobile carbon arc work, so you'll probably have the market all to yourself. that said, there's a reason people don't do carbon arc work any longer...

 

You have to understand "safety" and "liability" aren't always the same thing. You can do a lot of stuff "safely" and still have a huge liability issue in todays society. Thus the comment on "certified" or "industry standard" safety items. Just because a canvas tarp blocks out the light, doesn't mean it's either "safe" or stop you from being liable" if things go to court. All the attorney needs to do is show that you decided the high cost of standard welding curtains was too much and went with some other option and some one got "hurt", and you loose your case in front of a jury. After all to them you saving money was more important than some ones safety. That's the way it's going to get painted in court. Same goes if you choose to go with something that isn't fire retardant, say canvas tarps vs standard welding blankets. If something lights up while you have the hood down and it sets fire to some leaves or trash, guess what, you will loose in court.

 

 

Think you don't need insurance... after all maybe you just do this on the side or PT, don't bet on it. There are always people out there looking to get "rich" at your expense. It might be a passer by, it might be the customer, or it might even be the local municipality looking to fine you because you don't have insurance.... You might want to look up the story here about the fire not long ago where two firemen got killed because a fire started due to welders sparks in high wind. Those guys are going to get raked over in court because they didn't dot the I's and cross the T's having proper permits for hot work, a fire watch and so on. You can bet they didn't think they needed all that at the time. Now I bet they'd do anything to go back and correct that mistake.

[WisdomWarlord]

Thanks for everyone's input. I'll investigate this all further on my own.

[Glenn]

Call OSHA and ask them what you need to comply with their rules and regs. Call the state, county, and city where you will be working and ask them what you need to comply with their rules and regs. Post a copy of your welding certs, business license, insurance papers,and any other important documents in plain view. 

 

Ask other welders working or retired what they would advise.

 

Folks have provided you with their best answers, and cautions for doing this type work. Now it is up to you to do a bit of research on your own. Choose your next course of action wisely. Good luck with your project.

[DSW]

You asked a very vague question, then don't seem to be happy with the cautious replies you have received. "Mobile welding" could cover anything from welding on a D8 dozer in the middle of a field with no one around, to welding railings on street full of people in a busy downtown area. It might involve welding in a business that is open to the public, or in an area where access is restricted.

 

Have you even done a basic search on the minimum  distance OSHA requires for some sort of visual barrier when welding? I can tell you right now I can weld in my driveway with no barriers to block the public view if I wanted because the distance from where I work to the nearest street is greater than the minimum distance OSHA stipulates in their regs, not that I do on average.

 

I've erected all sorts of "barriers" over the years while working. Typically they are up to block wind rather than sight, but they accomplish a similar function many times. I've strung a tarp between the garage and the truck and set a set of scaffold in the middle to support the tarp. I've even built complete tents to work in on occasions ( blocks both wind and rain as well as sight.) I've used solid materials like plywood to block doors or windows, canvas and poly tarps ( taking into account they need to be more than far enough away from the weld to prevent fires as well as using actual welding blankets or curtains when welding in public areas or at the school say during open house ( I'm constantly pulling the curtains closed when students leave them partially open.)

 

 

 

If you ask clear direct questions showing you have done at least a minimum amount of homework first, you'll usually get better replies than you do with vague broad questions.

[ThomasPowers]

The problem is that if we make suggestions and you base your actions on them then *we* are open to liability as well.  I would guess that you would not be happy losing a good portion of your assets if the situation was reversed and I was the person asking.

 

The fact that you want to use a "non-standard" method makes things even worse.  Posting this on an open public forum compounds it.

 

I know how to do a lot of stuff that I won't do for other people for liability reasons.  I know how to do a lot of stuff I won't tell other people about for liability reasons.  And there are a some things that I will neither confirm or deny in a public venue.

 

Please remember that while *you* are asking the question *others* are and will be reading it and some of them just may be clueless mouthbreathing knuckle-dragging twits and we have to factor them into the answers as well.

[WisdomWarlord]

I'm going to try one more time with a slightly different angle.

Basically, now I'm imagining a "tent" made of welding blankets. 4 sides and a roof and a floor. The roof wouldn't be sealed, because of ventilation needs.

I see that Harbor Freight has 8' x 8' fiberglass welding blankets, so what about 6 of those? 4 for the walls, one each for the roof and floor. Maybe a 7th to shield other items inside the tent but not being welded or heated.

On paper it seems elegantly simple. Since I'm admittedly green, I'll ask- would anyone here use such an arrangement? Has anyone? Was it successful? How well does a fiberglass blanket take being folded and unfolded?

[Steve Sells]

Please remember that while *you* are asking the question *others* are and will be reading it and some of them just may be clueless mouthbreathing knuckle-dragging twits and we have to factor them into the answers as well.

 

 

IFI does not discriminate against knuckle dragging mouth breathers or twits. All are welcome if they follow the ToS.   

 

iirc we have a few that could fall into either category that get along just fine here . :)  But the general idea is solid, we have many children reading things here also,  needs to set good examples also.

[ThomasPowers]

Well I was thinking of my cousins and they were probably thinking the same of me...I keep telling folks that the scars on my knuckles are *not* from broken glass on the sidewalks! (grinders, bow saws, molten metal, dog, chisel,...,---cataloging hand scars is good fun for boring meetings...)

 

I wonder if you could adapt an easy-up to support the commercial curtains?  Probably wouldn't work out here in NM due to the high winds.  Ventilation considerations are a concern as breathing welding fumes is NOT a good idea!

[Glenn]

I'm going to try one more time with a slightly different angle.

Basically, now I'm imagining a "tent" made of welding blankets. 
Harbor Freight has 8' x 8' fiberglass welding blankets,

On paper it seems elegantly simple. Since I'm admittedly green, I'll ask- would anyone here use such an arrangement? Has anyone? Was it successful? How well does a fiberglass blanket take being folded and unfolded?

 

We can advise on the suitability of the HF welding blankets, but not their usage as that is an individual action.

 

As to the project you presented in your OP, and above, IForgeIron and those posting do not and will not accept liability for what an individual does. You must consider the post, do your own research, and plan YOUR course of action. Many of us would NOT undertake the project due to the reasons given. It is your call, and your responsibility as to what YOU do.

[John McPherson]

Fiberglass welding blankets are exactly what they sound like: blankets to be thrown over objects to protect them from sparks. Treated screens rated for UV and IR are totally different items.

[DSW]

You still haven't mentioned what you are thinking about doing.

 

The job itself plays a huge part in the answer for your question. For most of what I've done, covering the floor or even a roof ( assuming it's not going to rain) would be overkill. I can certainly understand when those things might be necessary though. I've done work over decorative concrete where we went to extreme lengths to prevent any damage to the floor. 2 layers of plywood over tarps and then another tarp over the plywood. When you are talking about a $30,000 floor you'd need to replace if it got damaged, you spend the extra time and money to make darn sure it won't be your fault if something happens. Things like this though get reflected in the cost of the job. I worked on one job where we tunneled under a sidewalk because the home owner didn't want it damaged or disturbed. We could have replaced that brick edged sidewalk 3 times for what they ended up getting charged for all our extra work, but that's the way the customer wanted it.

 

 

Last portable welding job I did, I parked the truck parallel to the street blocking the front railing I was replacing a rotted section on. From the truck to the building I had one of those blue poly tarps strung up. Tarp was attached to a 2x4 at the building and secured to the good section of railing with another 2x on the inside and screws. Between the two of them I blocked out all view from the street., and the distance was great enough I didn't have to worry about damaging the tarp. 3rd side was the building and I had the client close the shades in the one window that might have had a line of sight to me when I was working, and the last side was a blank wall of the next door building. I had like 4 welds to do to attach the new post and repair a small damaged section of channel at the bottom. It probably took me more time to set up the tarp than it did to do the actual welds. All the rest of the prep work really didn't require any special protection.

[arkie]

WisdomWarlord.....

 

Your original question, regarding welding, was posted on this forum, basically a blacksmithing forum.  You have received quite a bit of very good advise here, from some very knowledgeable persons.

 

I would suggest to you that since you had a welding-related question, that you post it instead in a proper welding related forum.  Three very good ones I might refer you to are weldingweb.com, aws.org (American Welding Society) and weldingtipsandtricks.com.  I would warn you ahead of time that those forums, made up of many professional welders, will make it look like you "walked into a lion's cage wearing a porkchop suit".  Good luck with your endeavours.

[Frosty]

I apologize to anyone who read this post of mine before I edited it. Sometimes I just get too stirred up for my own good. My proposing a more suitable user name name was completely out of line.

 

Please drop Wisdom from your IForge name you exhibit none. You seem to believe we're just not bright enough to understand what you want so you TRY to dumb your explanations down enough for us to understand you. THAT is just insulting.

 

Do you actually believe any regulatory body let alone a lawyer is going to give your OPINION of safe more weight than recognized safety regulations? If a fire martial or OSHA official, heck an employee saw you running your . . . set up in public they'd shut you down and fine the crap out of you on-the-spot. Better still if you tried "explaining" how safe you are in spite of a few hundred years of experience based laws saying otherwise. Think, fine multiplier, attitude at your podium.

 

You came here looking for a how to, how may guys who actually KNOW what we're talking about have told you it isn't safe. Your reaction is to attempt to dumb your explanation down enough we get it?

 

In all seriousness, it's a free country you can kill or cripple  yourself as you wish but if you endanger others the way your idiot plan will, you are a criminal.

 

Frosty The Lucky.

[WisdomWarlord]

Arkie, that's a good point, and I have already joined weldingweb.com. Yes, there has been some very good advice here. Served with just as much fodder. Makes the good harder to see. I'll be sure to leave the pork chop suit here!

DSW, to tell you the truth, I'm not exactly sure what I intend on doing. For sure, bicycle and motorcycle frames. Custom stuff, not repairs on existing frames. Beyond that, whatever I can get into a booth. I'm still too green know what the reasonable possibilities are and what of that I want to do.

[Charles R. Stevens]

Its not as much a case of wether the materials are a alabe, or that you can concoct somthing as safe and efective as manufactured, certified equipment. It the fact that if somthing goes wrong, and despite all precarions it can. Even if in acuality it ist your fault. Say a gasoline spill wile your working the problem is, if there are regulations, and industry standards (even if they are out dated and un safe. Lawers, judges and jurys arnt weldors. They are ither lawers, and they will jump on the rules, or they are average peaple that will imagine them selves as the injored party.
So, as advised look at what osha, your state, and your town have to say. Then talk to your insurance agent. It would realy suck if you do everyting by the book, and come to find out the insurance company has a special procedure they want fallwed. So they refuse to cover you. And it could be as simple as you werent wearing the specified foot gear.

[DSW]

Bicycle and motorcycle frames don't really sound "portable" to me. Sounds like shop work, even if you go to some one else's shop to weld. I can tell you you are a very long ways away from being capable of welding on motorcycle frames. You sort of poo pa'd  classes and insurance earlier, but I can tell you you'll want both. Anything that goes on the road you'll want to be very sure you know what you are doing, and that you have the insurance to back up your repairs. It won't matter if an issue is your fault or not, if you are the last one to touch it, you are "it" as far as liability is concerned if something goes wrong in today's litigious society. Even normal bicycles can get you into that realm.

 

 

If this is the direction you plan to go, you'd be best off taking a good tig class and learning to tig weld. Expect to spend a few hundred if not thousand hours getting good enough to weld on motorcycles. Small round tube and alloys like alum take a long time to learn. Even learning basic OA for bike frames will take you quite a bit of time. You'd better be able to make code quality welds in all positions every time with what ever alloy is required before you even think about touching someone elses bike.

[WisdomWarlord]

Well frosty, and anyone else who got the impression that I thought anyone here was not bright enough, I am sorry. That most definitely was not my intent. My intent was to get information on an idea I had from people who seemed to know much more than I did on the subject, and were willing to share that knowledge.

DSW, I can see where you got the impression I was I was dismissing classes and insurance. That's not what I meant at all. To comment further on those 2 things, like I'm about to do, can only serve to make me sound more arrogant that I probably do, but, here goes.

I kinda feel like many of you launched waaaaay ahead of my question. The analogy that comes to mind for me is this. I asked if rye flour can be used to make white bread and the answers I got were all about how I better be sure my kitchen has a health department inspection and that my marketing plan is done so the bankers will approve my loan. I'm just wanting some bread. Yes, there are precautions and regulations to follow, and I will, but before I get into all that, I just want to know a little about flour substitutions. And it was several posts in before anyone actually addressed my question directly.

At this stage, conversations about insurance aren't relevant, as long as I don't have to insure a concept before I can research it. Before the time comes to strike an arc, insurance will be something I look into.
As for classes, I've had enough education over the years to know that the guy teaching me may well be the utmost authority on the subject at hand, of, he may not be bright enough to find the front of the classroom without a map. If I dont know something about the subject, it's too easy to be taught nonsense without even knowing it. To me, what's worse that learning and developing bad habits, is to pay someone to teach them to me. So, at this stage, I don't know enough to even spot a good or bad teacher. I've also spent enough time with highly educated people who are equally dense to know that education means you spent money on learning, not that you actually learned anything. When I have a little more information, I definitely know the value of good instruction.
It was 9 posts before anyone addressed the actual questions I posted, and 3 of those are mine. DSW was the first one to actually talk to me about shielding. Before that, you guys were answering questions I hadn't even asked.

Answers that are clearly accusatory, or based on false assumptions, like Thomas and like Frosty, and others, are also insulting.

Newbie or senior member, insults aren't the most productive form of communication.

Thomas and Frosty and others seem have to assumed that I had not considered the liability aspects, and had no intention of ever doing so, and don't care a lick about who or what I hurt in my tinkering. Well, there's nothing in my initial post to lead anyone to think I had or had not. That didn't stop respondents from throwing out responses that were at least equally insulting. Where I come from, you ask follow-up questions to better understand what someone is asking, instead of reacting to my own assumptions. But, what do I know.

Before anyone tries using my aggressive comments here as supposed support for any assumptions they might have made, bear in mind, I haven't actually done anything towards this. I did contemplate black sheets. Did anyone notice that? Did you also notice that I dismissed that? And that I gave reasons why I dismissed it? Or did you read "black sheets" and hit the panic button? I still have lots to explore. Until I'm satisfied I can do so safely, I'm not even willing to strike an arc.

In contrast to the reactions of some here based on assumptions they haven't bothered to test with any actual facts, DSW has been most helpful in this thread. He pointed out how ""safety" and "liability" aren't always the same thing. You can do a lot of stuff "safely" and still have a huge liability issue in todays society. ", among other things. That was a very important point. One that I doubt he could make if he were busy expressing to me how stupid, dangerous, criminal, and idiotic I might be.

Based on Forge Lord Frostys post, maybe it is I who's not bright enough to understand. So why would I bother asking any follow-up questions. Oh wait, I did that. But why would I bother restating anything, just in case I wasn't explaining what I mean, as if to indicate I wasn't communicating clearly, since by my own admission, I don't know much about the subject. Oh wait, I did that too.

As I have sifted thru the fodder in this thread, there actually is some good information posted by others in response to me, but I'm not going to admit that here. Oh wait, I did that. Twice now.

So, I'll take the good info some of you have provided, and use it to adjust my plans going forward.

Now that the thread is (hopefully) closed, it's time for a cup of coffee to shake off the chill.

[Steve Sells]

Your other post was asking how to run a outmoded carbon arc torch on a few batteries, then you mention in this post you want to start up a portable business using the equipment you do not know how to use, with no real financial investment.

 

Now we are being mean by pointing out your getting ahead of yourself, so you turn that around and say we are picking on you ?  Am I following this correctly?

 

You could have read through the forums and seen the business section of the forum and the general issues Insurance companies have with metal workers, and other forms of construction.   You could have read about welding operations others run and why they do it that way.   Instead you choose to jump in and post first, that is was your right.   Please try to listen to what is being said rather than trying to make excuses.

 

Now you can either buck up and pay attention to the real wisdom being posted here and try to learn from it,  or you will continue this path and get nowhere, because many will give up and will stop replying to your posts.   It is your call.

[Glenn]

Based on Forge Lord Frostys post, 

 

This is name calling and NOT allowed on IForgeIron. Please choose your words wisely and compare them to the TOS of the site.