mick maxen Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 I had fun making this and working out how best to do it. The socket is forged from mild steel and the front section was tapered to about 1mm. The hardest weld is the point of the socket into the pattern welded piece. I decided to jump weld this in before any welding on the sides. Sounds easy but the socket for the arrow shaft is only 10mm diameter on the inside and the wall thickness is under 1mm. So I used a tapered round bar to hold this. It also had the advantage of making the socket cold enough not to buckle or work open as I lightly jump welded the two together, then welded down the sides. Once the two pieces are welded together there is not really any chance of tweaking the socket back into shape other than bending the tails out of the way, which I didn't want to do. I have a pair of specially adapted tongs for holding the socket after its all welded up which makes life a lot easier.The arrow head is a Swallow Tail head about 110mm long and 45mm across the tails and weighs about an ounce.Mick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 I love it. This is nice work. Few people can forge weld such small items Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Coke Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 Greetings Mick, Over the top cool.... Wonderful work.... If I had to get shot with an arrow I could only hope it would be one of yours... Forge on and make beautiful things Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 Way to go Mick! That's not only beautiful it's a darned impressive piece of work. May we see more please? Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norcal Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 That is down right awesome! Do you have pics during the process? And, can we see them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LastRonin Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 Wow. I'd actually love to see it mounted to an equally masterful shaft and fletching... just trying to imagine what wood and feathers would be appropo... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loneforge Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 That's right cool! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 I have a museum book/magazine that has an article on extremely ornate quarrels that were gifts to a cathedral: engraved heads, gilding---I'll try to remember to look it up in a couple of weeks when I get back to my library at my "real" house. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Everything Mac Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 Very impressive indeed! I'd quite like to see your tongs too if possible? Cheers Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikecopXXX Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 wow very impressive! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockstar.esq Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 Finer than jewelry! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benton Frisse Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 Without a doubt one of the most beautiful things I've ever seen. What material did you use for the pattern welding? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted May 23, 2014 Share Posted May 23, 2014 Benton: Seeing as we haven't heard back from Mick or heck, heard from him recently I'm afraid you're going to have to decide on the billet composition on your own. Were I to surmise a mite I'd say, judging by the contrast in the pattern the dark etched steel was very low carbon, perhaps pure iron or maybe wrought. There is more wrought available in the UK than this side of the pond. Then there's the bright component. One very popular alloy escapes my memory at the moment but a high nickle alloy is good for high contrast in the etch. L-6 is popular and metal cutting band saw blades are typically very close equivalents. High nickle etches bright. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricJergensen Posted May 23, 2014 Share Posted May 23, 2014 Frosty: you thinking of 15N20? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick maxen Posted May 23, 2014 Author Share Posted May 23, 2014 Thanks for the kinds words about this piece. Benton, the pattern welded steel is made using 15N20 and either CS70 or 20C. 15N20 has 2% nickel and is the bright part of the pattern. CS70 is a 0.7% carbon steel and 20C is a 1% carbon steel. No pure iron or wrought in this piece at all I'm afraid Frosty. From my experience pure iron etches bright along with wrought which etches a grainy bright, if that makes sense. Mick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted May 24, 2014 Share Posted May 24, 2014 Frosty: you thinking of 15N20? Yes I was Eric, thank you. You win a cooky! Thanks for speaking up Mick, it's so much better to hear from the maker and read my speculations. The 15N20 was a pretty safe guess on my part, it's so popular for the bright component it's a surprise when someone uses something else. The CS70 and 20C aren't in my play book, wrong side of an ocean. Those are good high carbon steels, 70pts and 100pts in blacksmithenglish. The nice dark color had me fooled. (like that's an accomplishment <grin>) Guessing at pure iron or WI was a wild one, the wonderful contrast had me thinking it had to be really low carbon to etch so dark. Shows what I know eh? What did you etch with? Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick maxen Posted May 24, 2014 Author Share Posted May 24, 2014 CS70 is UK spec steel and 20C is from Sweden but they are very similar to your 1075 and 1095 carbon steels. I etch all my pattern welding in ferric chloride as its safer and the etch is cleaner in my opinion. It is a general misconception that the carbon content has anything to do with the colour of the etch, I used to think that myself. It is in fact the Manganese that dictatates whether the dark layers are shades of grey to almost black. The photo below shows some pure iron inlaid into a pattern welded bar. The pure iron is almost the same colour as the 15n20. Mick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted May 25, 2014 Share Posted May 25, 2014 Thanks again Mick. I'm bought out of another "traditional" Myth. Manganese content determines etch color. As does Nickle doesn't it, or am I missing something? It sure brings alloy analysis much more to the fore in planning patterns. Are there references for other alloying metals as they relate to etching? Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick maxen Posted May 25, 2014 Author Share Posted May 25, 2014 Frosty, you are right about Nickel. 15N20 does have around 0.4% manganese and would etch a light grey, but the influencing alloy is the 2% Nickel keeping the steel bright and resisting the etch. CS70 has on average 0.7% manganese and etches a dark grey. 20C has about 0.45% manganese and again will etch a light grey. Chromium is another alloy which will influence what colour/shade you get in the etch unless the manganese content is high.. If you know what you are doing and know the alloy make up of various steels you can use this to your advantage and get some interesting patterns that look almost 3d. A low manganese steel next to a high manganese steel in your pattern will give a shadow effect to the darker steel. Mick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HIGHSIDER Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 Beautiful work & a very interesting thread. Well done Mick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 Frosty, take some time and read through the knife making classes, I think I covered it in there, or wait for the book to be out sometime in the coming month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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