Bmt1234 Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 So I have wanted to build a smithy for a while because my current operation has become a mud pit. I am thinking a horse shed like design. My question is I would like to just use tree trunks as posts. Is that possible or wood it rot to fast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Depends on the wood, climate, how you set them, etc. Find out what local woods were used for fence posts as an idea of what might work. You can also treat the underground portions though probably not with creosote like used to be done. Be sure to dig the holes extra deep and fill with gravel to allow water to drain away. You can always set concrete tubes underground with a system to bolt the tree trunks too above ground---if the local code allows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmt1234 Posted February 7, 2014 Author Share Posted February 7, 2014 I was planning on treating the underground sections but I'm not sure with what. The ground where it is going to go is always at least a little damp except for mid summer. I will try to find out what is used for fence posts locally. I am hoping to find som cedar wood because I heard it is rot and bug resistant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Do you have a local Ag extension office? They are usually good for these sorts of questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 roofing tar works paint the bottom part of the posts before planting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Traylor Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Cedar rots and feeds termites. I second the suggestion that you treat it, coat it, or set it in concrete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notownkid Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 I have 2 shops built in Pole Barn design with pressure treated posts one is on a floating slab and the blacksmith shop just built is poles in the ground and will get a concrete floor this summer I hope. The PT will last 25-30 years or more, have a horse barn on one farm that's been 30+ yrs and the posts are fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Everything Mac Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 You can treat the posts with chemicals or you can char the sections that will be going into the ground. Give it a really good going over with a blow torch and create a thick layer of charred wood. Insects won't touch it. and I understand it's rot resistant too. We used it on the posts for a viking longhouse I helped build a few years back. All the best Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 The addition to my shop uses utility poles. The local electrical co-op gives it's replaced poles to it's members. I was on the list for over a year but when my ship came in it came in in spades! I got 2 40' poles that were pulled when they widened the RR track---they had been in the ground for about 10 years and in DRY DRY DRY New Mexico and now not exposed to sunlight will probably be in good shape for 80 years or so more. They of course came heavily treated and are the only wood in my shop's structure. I chopped them in two for 4 20' poles, sunk 5' in the ground, concreated around them, and trimmed them for the 10' side walls of the shop. As as nice bonus I keep finding "pole eyebolts" at the scrapyard and so have installed a number of them to provide a place to mount stuff. Lower down I mounted a 6.5" postvise to one of the poles. Heavy hammering on it drives the sheet metal walls; but it doesn't move! I built most of my 20x30 shop extension out of used and scrounged materials. Only the purlins and the SDST screws were bought new---oh yes I did buy a couple of PT boards to use around the perimeter when I leveled the dirt floor with sand and gravel from the local arroyo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmt1234 Posted February 14, 2014 Author Share Posted February 14, 2014 Thank you for all of the replies. I have decided to just buy the treated posts. I am however going to try to find some free planks off of craiglist in order to keep the cost down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJS Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 If your ground is ALWAYS wet I would be very tempted to use concrete tubes and set mounting brackets in the tops, I had an old machine shed at the old farm that was in sand and gravel but the water table was high and several rotted off below ground. Our new house is pole built construction and we went with www.permacolumn.com/ flat never gonna rot off. Had bunch of cedar fence posts rot off in the sand and gravel at the old farm too, not impressed with their rot resistance. In fact we do metal corner posts and steel line post for farm fence cause I don't like having to replace wood every 10-25 years... If you wanted to avoid things rotting off you could buy a www.klenepipe.com/ kit, or just do the same kind of thing your self with heavy walled structural tubing. You could weld flanges on or drill through holes and bolt wood on to screw into... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmt1234 Posted February 16, 2014 Author Share Posted February 16, 2014 I am considering going with concrete And will defiantly look into it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 You can rap PT posts with ice dam barrier, it is polyethylene coated with tar. It greatly extends the life of posts, wich usually rot in the first 6" were the soil microbes and air is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGGUNDOCTOR Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 With a high water table watch out for seepage through the concrete floor. The bearing house I bought from they would get a lot of moisture under anything that sat on the floor, from boxes to mats. You need to see if you can barrier the water in some way, or you will have problems later. Look into ICE home construction. Foam Lego type blocks that get filled with concrete. I also like the rammed Earth walls made from old tires (free) and the dirt on the lot (free). The cost is in the labor, if you have someone else do it for you, and the shotcrete That goes over the exterior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armand Tatro Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 With a high table you will want to have the top of your floor a foot to 18 inches above grade to avoid some of the problems listed above. Armand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmt1234 Posted February 18, 2014 Author Share Posted February 18, 2014 With a high water table watch out for seepage through the concrete floor. The bearing house I bought from they would get a lot of moisture under anything that sat on the floor, from boxes to mats. You need to see if you can barrier the water in some way, or you will have problems later. Look into ICE home construction. Foam Lego type blocks that get filled with concrete. I also like the rammed Earth walls made from old tires (free) and the dirt on the lot (free). The cost is in the labor, if you have someone else do it for you, and the shotcrete That goes over the exterior. Do you have any pictures of the tire and dirt wall I am having a hard time picturing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Google "earth ship" I find it easer to cut out one side wall, drop it in side then fill and tamp, it's a real pain to tamp the dirt sideways in to the case. It's also best to spike threw the sidewalls to the ground or tires under the one your working on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGGUNDOCTOR Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Sounds like Charles has some experience with these. Basically the tires are laid flat, and filled (rammed with dirt), then another layer, and so on till the wall is the right height. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 One, note, do not cement wood posts in to the ground, it trappes moister and exelerates decay. If one coats with roofing tar (as Steve said) or wrap in ice dam it will extend the life of the posts in concrete. The wooden post srinks allowing moister to migrate down between the two. At one time they used to use wooden shingles around the post, wen the concrete set up they were removed and the gap was filled with hot tar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Concrete is great stuff, when used in the right way. It has been used wrong more than right since WWII. That and it takes a lot of energy to make and transport. It's misuse is responsible for damage to many historic buildings, here and in Europe. In the south west, many adobes have beed damaged by cement stucco, cement plasters h e Danegeld buildings in England. And the local insurance agent, dang neir had her building come down, a few years after having the brick work repointed. The old soft brick started to crack and spald after the mason used cement mortar. The old work used like mortar, wich he said was to soft, he was ignorant. New brick is very hard, because it is designed for cement mortar. There are a lot of options, if you have access to natural timber, then a post and beam type structure built on a foundation wall might be an option, stone, brick, tires filed with gravel (bottom corse) all work well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRM Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Treated sounds good if there is nothing else cheap, For the siding, try to find a local sawmill. Not sure what you have down there tree wise, but poplar, hemlock, or even oak if you have the money will work. Up here in PA I can get 1x10x8's for .50cents a board foot for hemlock. For 500.00 you have a pretty big shop. I too am going to build a shop this spring and will most likely use what I can from my own mill. If not I'll buy Hemlock logs and mill them. See if a neighbor farmer has a barn to take down and do it for free or he may need help and will trade you lumber for work. I would love someone to do that for me. Have fun and post pics when you are done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmt1234 Posted February 20, 2014 Author Share Posted February 20, 2014 Treated sounds good if there is nothing else cheap, For the siding, try to find a local sawmill. Not sure what you have down there tree wise, but poplar, hemlock, or even oak if you have the money will work. Up here in PA I can get 1x10x8's for .50cents a board foot for hemlock. For 500.00 you have a pretty big shop. I too am going to build a shop this spring and will most likely use what I can from my own mill. If not I'll buy Hemlock logs and mill them. See if a neighbor farmer has a barn to take down and do it for free or he may need help and will trade you lumber for work. I would love someone to do that for me. Have fun and post pics when you are done.Funny you should say that because I am about to call some people down the road who have some run down sheds on there property and see if we can work out some kind of deal. As far as the concrete I was planning on sinking the post in the concrete but as Charles pointed out that would actually make it worse so I think I will just sink the treated posts into the ground. I will look into the ice boards they seem like a pretty neat idea. I looked into the dirt tire wall but I think I will go with a different route. Thank you guys for all of the great responses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGGUNDOCTOR Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 This is my smithy, but I don't have to worry about snow, or much rain here in the desert. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianH Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 If you are still interested in doing roundwood/rough timber framing, check out this forum over HERE Lots of people there have been going it for many years and have been building very solid buildings in the process. A lot of good info for the reading and plenty of experienced helpful folk to as questions to, if needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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