Man_On_Fire68 Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 So awhile back, I acquired a peter wright anvil from my grandfather's tourist camp which I got for free. The anvil is old I know that and is weathered. Unfortunately my grandfather passed away and I had no chance to ask him about it. The anvil's stone weight numbers read: 0 2 16 so it weighs around 70 pounds. The face of the anvil was heavily pitted when I acquire it either from misuse or improper storage and the edges are chipped. I was concerned with the pits and the fact that the face wasn't perfectly flat, so I sent it to my father's friend who milled the face to make it flat and remove the pits. The deepest the pits ran were probably 1/16"-1/8". I did a hammer drop after I got it back from the milling process with a 16 oz. ballpeen (using the flat side not the ball) and the hammer face actually let little crescent dents in the face. Should I try to get the face of this anvil resurfaced? Is it still good to go? I was planning on using this thing for bladesmithing particularly, making swords. I realize that you are never suppose to strike the face of an anvil directly since you can damage it. So I'm hoping that the milling process didn't totally grind away the steel face. What do you guys think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
humphreymachine Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 I don’t know much about bladesmithing but 70 lbs sound small for sword making? An 1/8 inch is a fair amount to remove but you should not have milled through the hard face unless it had been milled before. If a simple hammer drop left a dent the face sounds soft which could indicate that it was in a house/shop fire at some point in its life. Further metal removal will do nothing to harden the existing metal. Really cool that it has family history but possibly not the best anvil for serious swordsmithing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hazmat83 Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 I learned the hard way that you shouldn't try to "resurface" your anvil. apparently the best way to bring one back to good condition is by using it. it works surprisingly well. after I all but ruined my early 1700's anvil I figured what could I hurt so I started bangin away. so far so good. there are a lot of good ways to save your anvil face if its like mine. it has mushrooming and chiping on the edges of the face. I read in the forums about saddles, plates, and all kinds of other options. I've kinda stopped asking questions and just search the forum I can usually find what I'm looking for and you avoid the smart comments. you can find anything on the forum through a Google search with ifi . good luck I hope this helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Hale Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 I would be concerned abouit one thing for sure..Anvil faces and the bottom are mostly not parellel. So if he did not mill the bottom first the top may have had material taken of unevenly. those areas may be really thin now.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 why is 70# too small for swords? even a great sword is less than about 4# of steel. I like them bigger, but my first anvil was about 60# , used that for many years until I found my nice 100# kholswa. I got the 60# from my teacher Bill Wyant, and I was informed by JPH at Bills passing, that Bill got it from him when Bill was his apprentice. It may be small but it seems to have a nice pedigree of sword makers before I got it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Man_On_Fire68 Posted January 10, 2014 Author Share Posted January 10, 2014 Thanks guys. I'm really wishing I hadn't gotten it milled but lesson learned I suppose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLMartin Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Post a photo of the anvil. We can give better information when we see it. A good bright photo. Also look closely at the side of the anvil just under the face. You should be able to see a line running the whole face length. A peterwright at 70lbs would have a steel face approxamently 1/2" to 3/8" thick when it was brand new. Normally a line can be seen from the face to the body of the anvil. I do not know why every new person with a anvil thinks they need to mill or grind the face off but it is a very common mistake made by people. I have seen hundreds of anvils with there face mostly removed. Maybe it's time some one sets up shop with a few people and starts forge welding new faces on anvils Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anachronist58 Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 Yep, milling off the face is indeed risky business, for all of the reasons mentioned above. I milled twenty-five thousandths off of my Soderfors 88 pounder, without altering its properties (as seen on Page 44 of "Show me your Anvil ).%C2%A0%20But%20I%20am%20fully%20qualified%20to%20perform%20that%20type%20of%20quality%20controlled%20operation'>). But I am fully qualified to perform that type of quality controlled operation on my personal property. I would have serious reservations about doing that someone else's anvil, for all of the reasons stated above. It would be nice if there were a flaming banner on the anvils page: "Read This Before Cleaning, Sanding, Grinding, Milling, or Killing Your Anvil!!" Years ago I rolled and totaled my Pristine '55 Chevy pick-up. Almost as bad as killing a good anvil Robert Taylor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 It would be nice if there were a flaming banner on the anvils page: "Read This Before Cleaning, Sanding, Grinding, Milling, or Killing Your Anvil!!" It wont work. We already have a few "read this first posts" in various sections. but few ever read them, proof is the many first posts that are answered in those very pinned threads to which I refer . we post warnings and we post... and people just eat the pages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macbruce Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 Do you know wether or not the anvil face was hard or soft before you milled it? As pitted as it was, maybe it was soft to begin with....Hence the pitts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Coke Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 Greetings Man, Look up ASO... LOL... Its not a total loss... It is always handy to have a smaller anvil in the shop just for another hardi hole for tools .. Make a saddle plate for the face and use it for slitting and punching... Plus it has a handy smaller horn... All tools have another life... Just assume it had that problem before you milled it and you will feel better... Keep the faith... Forge on and make beautiful things Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Man_On_Fire68 Posted January 11, 2014 Author Share Posted January 11, 2014 I'm at work right now but when I get home, I'll be sure to post a few decent pictures. And whether or not the anvil was soft before it was milled it was so badly pitted that it was almost impossilbe to tell if the hammer I was using was leaving any marks. Could it just be the hammer head that I'm using? The head on the hammer was crowned but not wholly rounded. How resistant to scratching/denying should the anvil face be? When I drop tgw hammer on it, it has excellent bounce back almost to full height for the first bounce. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anachronist58 Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 Many times in my past, I have been the Goat Who Ate The Instructions. I made it my doomed quest while in Aerospace to make Documentation Compliance "Fool-Proof". Impossible. Post #873 of "show me your anvil": details the test I did. In short, I observed the same "peen and scratch" characteristics in both the milled and un-milled Face (a good portion of the heel zone was left un-milled). While not a laboratory test, I have some narrowly critical experience with aerospace alloys, and High Speed Steel and Carbide cutting tools. Another reliable indicator is when one sees no change in performance of the milling cutter, or the nature of metal removal under consistent controlled conditions. Post #873 also addresses the pits. Sometimes it costs a lot of money to replace Human Beings with machines, as in, for example, electronic surface texture comparators. Robert Taylor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metalsmith21 Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 Never ever mill the face of an anvil!!! Did you wreck it? Couldnt say without pics. My time has been limited for smithing. So im no expert. But as ive read all faces will dent reguardless of mutalation from milling or everyday use, although your anvil will aquire dents from work even more so now that the workhardened face has been milled/rusted away. Only pratical remedy is to work harden the face by smithing on it. (Less than 100hrs anvil time) -over 150hrs of research- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metalmangeler Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 If you actually removed the work plate from an old anvil it will not work harden to a reasonable level, there is a reason they took the time to weld those plates there in the first place. I would use it as it is now and see how it goes this should not have a negative effect. Another opption might be to see if you have addiquet plate left only it is soft you might take it to a heat treater, I doubt it is worth what they would charge to reheat treat though. I really think use it and keep an eye out for another anvil. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Man_On_Fire68 Posted January 11, 2014 Author Share Posted January 11, 2014 I think all I can do now is use it to work on and see what happens. I will keep my eyes open for another anvil for sure. Here's a few pics of the beast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Everything Mac Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 I'm fairly willing to bet that it will be fine once you have hot steel between anvil and hammer. The face is likely to have been slightly softer than the hammer. Just don't miss the work. All the best Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yahoo2 Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 If the ball pein hammer is tool steel and it has a sharp bevel around the edge of the hammer face very few anvils will remain unmarked. Its like stiletto heels on a parquetry floor . Is it actually a dent or just a mark? If you cant feel a divot, then its just normal metal to metal abrasion on the mirror surface and nothing to worry about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macbruce Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 It'll be fine, quit stressimg about it and get to work. You've got some very sharp corners now so just relieve them a tad and forge ahead..... B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anachronist58 Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 Good points above - most hammer heads would be harder than almost every anvil face?... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Man_On_Fire68 Posted January 11, 2014 Author Share Posted January 11, 2014 Thanks for your reassurance and advice guys. Now if you'll excuse me, I've got forging to do. The hammer I used was a mastercraft ball pein from Canadian tire and, according to their site, it says the head is made from drop forged, heat treated steel and apparently is "for metal working".. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 Yes No Maybe Anvil faces and hammer heads both have a pretty good range of hardnesses. I like to have my hammering issue students use the softer hammers on the harder anvils... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yahoo2 Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Good points above - most hammer heads would be harder than almost every anvil face?... No, most hammers are not but a few are incredibly hard, I have more of an issue with an engineers hammer that has an sharply ground unradiused edge, it is a similar effect to using a chisel or a centre punch on the anvils face something has gotta give . The advertising blurb for the engineers hammers, that I use say, A Soft Faced Ball Pein Hammer For Applications Where Risk Of Chipping Needs To Be Minimised Used In Metal Work For Striking Punches & Chisels Also Used For Riveting Work With Ball End Head Forged From Tough High Tensile Carbon Manganese Steel so is that soft or hard? I have been swinging a 10# tool steel sledge for more than 30 years and have barely marked the face of the hammer in all that time and abuse. I was given a 14# hammer 12 months ago and it has been badly deformed and mushroomed from using it on one demolition job for just a few hours. There was nothing wrong with the #14 hammer, it was just not the appropriate tool for the job at hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anachronist58 Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Yes, Yahoo2, I agree with you to the extent that my experience permits me. Fillet and Extrenal Radius were King in my former trade. We know the "Blurb" is crafted to sell hammers, it is not a Data Sheet. "Tough High Tensile Carbon Manganese Steel": Toughness and hardness are associated, yet separate material conditions. You want more Tough, you have to Sacrifice some Hard. This amplifies the concept that there are few absolutes in the wild, as one apple differs from another, so it is with hammer to hammer and anvil face to anvil face. It is the reason critical industrial applications require "provenance" and audit trail throughout the life of the item being manufactured, I once received in a batch of major brand name twist drills and put them to stock. They were all later found to be dead soft - you could cut them with a knife. A breakdown in the QA Stream. But since this thread is about "wrecking my Anvil Face", If one is able, as in my case, to test, execute, and verify........ If one can do that, then to humbly borrow a phrase from Rich Hale, "One may do wot one wishes". Robert Taylor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianinsa Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 '' as in my case, to test, execute, and verify........'' Taken out of context this could be the logo for the 'Zimbabwe department of political opposition studies' :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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