Welder

[garyleed]

What kind of welder is ok quality for around $500.00 I plan to weld light material 1/4 inch or less. I know how to stick weld and gas weld. I have never used a mig welder or tig welder. It will only get used on weekends and for home projects.

Thanks,

[Ferrous Beuler]

Gary, First of all, a bit of advice- NEVER walk into a car dealership waving a wad of cash in hand.
Second, determine exactly what sort of jobs you need done by youself welding at home and what sort of welder will suffice.
Last, take a welding course at your local community college.
Dan:)

[agsolder]

Haynes Techbook, aka Haynes Publishing Group, puts out a welding manual that does a superb job of describing the capabilities and limitations of various types of welding equipment. I got a copy at Autozone. Check it out. It's worth a hard look before investing your money in a welder.

[Frosty]

Get the largest capacity name brand welder you can get for the money. Check with the local welding suppliers to see what they have in factory overhauls, rebuilds, trade ins, etc.

I did VERY well buying my Lincoln Ranger 9 portable a decade or so ago buy buying a factory overhaul. It was a demo welder and Lincoln had to sell it as used but sent it to the depot for a complete rebuild. What I got had 27 hrs. on it but cost less than 50% of brand new.

Try to steer clear of the unknown makes, I had one once and it worked just fine till it needed a part. Then it was a door stop.

Frosty

[welder19]

Do yourself a favor and get a MIG, you won't regret it, go with a Hobart or Lincoln, a 140 should be in your price range but shop around, prices vary, sometimes by as much as $100 between sellers.

welder19

[MLMartin]

if you want to acualy weld, i would take a class, i could weld before i went to school, but lurned i could not weld at all after i went, i can weld now, but ive been in school for it for over a year

[Mills]

Since you are just looking for a welder then peruse Craigslist, There are some real bargains to be had, this one is likely gone but for example: Welder-Promig 175, with Bottles and cart.
Around the OKC area I see the Tombstones priced too high and off brand MIGs as Frosty pointed out become doorstops when parts are needed. For lihgt work a MIG will serve you well

[Thomas Dean]

Go BLUE, buy a MILLER wire machine. Worth the little extra money and more user friendly than any other machine on the market, especially for a "non-welder" as yourself. (No insult intended here) Yes, there are other wire/mig machines out there, but in my 34+yrs of welding this is the best machine made. (Linde was the BEST but they no longer make them. sigh) You can weld 1/8" with stick with the proper rod size and practice and as thin as 18ga, just weld it downhill. If purchasing a stick machine either Miller or Lincoln. These sell new for way less than your $500.00 budget. As mentioned in above posts, take a class at your local 'tech school' or Jr. College, will probably save you some heartache later;)

[blkbear]

In addition to all of the excellent advice given so far, go to the different manufacturers web sites before you buy. There is a ton of essential information on the web sites that can help you decide what type of welding outfit you want to purchase. Lincoln Electric is one web site that is just chock full of information.
There are also other web sites devoted to welding that are not manufacturer based, although the Lincoln Electric web site offers a lot of information not necessarily based on their products but welding in general.
As mentioned in a earlier post, a course at a community college is an excellent idea. There you can get proper instruction on of the different types of welding without making mistakes and burning out your own newly acquired machine. You also get to practice using their supplies as well.

Brian
Ottawa

[Blacksmith Jim]

I recently decided to go with a 225 AC/DC Lincoln stick welder. I'm pretty happy with my choice so far. I don't have a huge welding background though, just a community college stick welding class and some random blacksmith projects.. I was thinking about taking a welding survey class this winter and getting exposed to gas welding, mig and tig..

[Jmercier]

The best part about a lincoln buzz box is that they're indestructable. There's nothing to them except a huge transformer. The buzz box which Iv'e got in my shop is older than I was, the fellow I got it from said he bought it new in 1980 (admitadly I've only used it twice since I got it but to my experience it works fine. I dont do a lot of welding yet, and I can only "gorilla weld" its big and ugly but it holds)

[Mills]

I used a forney stick welder this spring that my friend who is in his 60's started on when he was 13. It was there 'Portable welder' that rode in the back of the truck. The electric company had placed receptacles every so often on the poles and his job was to get over there, hook up, fix what broke, then get back to work, break is over. Work ethic instilled at such a tender age. For both Forney and him.

To echo TDean my MIG is a 29 year old Miller 35 that is now welding as good as ever, after being underutilized for a long time. I've had to track down various broken circuts and learn to never use old wire, or cheap insulators. There are a buncha good welders out there. I'd buy either blue or red myself.

[irnsrgn]

I am a firm believer in stick welding (SMAW), I had a miller 35, then got a 200 use wire for light duty stuff only, the welders I learned on in the early 50's were a WW2 surplus SA200 with a 15 horse electric motor on it and a red Lincoln I think, might be another brand, they copied each other back then that my dad and uncle got in the 40's, my welder on my service rig is a 1950 SA200 engine drive. the old ones just never give up with a little maintenance. the 35 has a diode out of it I think, I loaned it out to my ex helper.

them little 110V wire machines are a waste of money, usually only 10 or 20% duty cycle, people only see the highest amperage and crisp them trying to weld heavier stuff than they were designed for.

By the way 10% duty cycle means you can run it at highest setting for 1 minute out of 10 without burning it up, each percentage is a part of a 10 minute cycle or operating time.

And then most people want to use the biggest electrode they can at the highest setting as they think they are saving time. IN reality they are not gaining anything except downtime. as they get things too hot, have weld spatter on everything withing 20 feet and destroy the parent metal with excessive heat generated in the heat affect zone next to the weld, and the weld fails, but its never their fault, must be poor rod or electricity that caused it.

well the rant is over

[irnsrgn]

Oh yes, almost forgot, I did mostly argicultural machine repair. The majority of my business was repairing failed wire welds from the factory and also my competitors wire welds.

[Glenn]

When I was looking for a welder, the fellow told me a 20% duty cycle was 2 minutes welding and 8 minutes letting the fan run to cool down the machine. Do not shut it off just cause your finished, as the heat has not dissipated. It needs to run the full 8 minutes before shut-down.

I am not a welder but I have welded things as thin as auto exhaust pipe up to materials 1/2 inch or so, all from the same stick welder (buzz box). My mig unit can not do that.

[Frosty]

Oh yes, almost forgot, I did mostly argicultural machine repair. The majority of my business was repairing failed wire welds from the factory and also my competitors wire welds.

The mig IS known as the lawyer's welder for a reason.

It doesn't matter what machine you use you have to know how to weld. Mig is famous for making a pretty weld with no penetration on one side; cold lapping.

Anyway, I don't recommend mig unless you already know how to weld, they can really get you in trouble.

Frosty

[Glenn]

In defense of Mig, there is mig and there is MIG. The 110v units the size of a bread box will not do what a 220v unit, or self contained (motor) unit the size of a small car will do. It is much like comparing a 2 pound hand hammer to a nazel 3b.

We need to ask the welders what is the specific difference in the welding rod/wire, and given the best weld from each unit, the difference in the actual weld strength. The welding industry uses mig for a reason, and the welds have to meet a standard now matter how they were applied.

[irnsrgn]

Factories have a tendency to use what ever is cheapest due to the cost as they use a lot of wire, generally from what I have seen, they use what looks like a light galvanized wire of the S3 class, while most shops were the guality is most important use a copper coated wire, usually E-70S6.

Like Frosty stated, you need to learn how to weld with stick before you weld with wire feed. You learn the real basics of what is happening in the weld area and how to control it. I can take anyone from an intelligent 6 year old to a 100 year old with good eyesight and have them making perfect looking beads in about 15 to 30 minutes, but they are not likely to hold up to a bend test.

Everyone is always pushing penetration, penetration, when in fact penetration is only needed maybe on the first pass depending on the application, Fusion with the parent metal is the all important factor in welding. As an example, a fillet weld which is basically similar to using putty to hold a window pane in its place. Its just a series of beads put in to join two pieces together at an angle and no provision for complete penetration is needed, but Fusion is the big issue.

Weld strength is basically determined by the strength of the parent metal, the as welded strength of the filler metal, the type of flux or gas used with the filler metal and most importantly the person doing the application, and the procedure followed to complete the operation. Joint design is another key factor in the ability of the designated weld being capable of performing its function well. There are many variables that affect the quality and performance of a weld. Of those variables controlling heat input and build up is a key factor which most non professional welders ignore. The basic rule of thumb is a 400 degree preheat and keeping the innerpass temp below 800 degrees requires no post stress relieving.

All these variables is why a lot of industry are going to making their weldors (the human kind) take a course and certify in the respective type of welding they are doing, mainly just so they know what all the variables can do to a weld.

A good weld boils down to how educated the operator is at what he is doing.

If you really want to know what kind of weld you are making, use destructive testing and actually abuse and break it to see how strong it is. If it will survive a root bend, and a face bend around a 1 inch diameter die, its generally a good weld.

[irnsrgn]

[Glenn]

BP0052 AWS Welding Rod Classification

I like Jr's better :)

[ThomasPowers]

I picked up an old lincoln tombstone for $US 40; it's from the 1960's or 1950's; never repainted, copper wound, 220 VAC and it suits my work in the shop very well. It's a far better welder than I am a weldor! If I was going to upgrade I'd go for the AC/DC version of the same thing.

I don't weld for other folk on anything that is a critical use part; in fact I generally don't weld on critical stuff for myself! Paying a pro is cheap compared to paying a Dr/Hospital/etc!

[Dutchmancreek]

I use a Hobart wire welder and like it. However, I'm with Thomas that I never use it for a critical application or where safety is a factor. I also won't weld for someone else, except where forge welding is a part of a piece I'm building. A buddy of mine has a welding shop and is a professional, so anything critical goes to him.

For the type of light repair work and small projects around the farm that I do, the wire welder works great and beats hauling everything 20 miles to the welding shop.

Steve

[Thomas Dean]

Not to beat this poor horse...for the past 2 1/2 weeks I have been welding 16" .500wall pipe. welds that could be rolled out were beaded and hot passed with stick then filled and capped with dual shield wire, .045. (We use stick beads and hot pass due to not having to spend the time it take to prep the pipe for hard wire beads.) {I personnally don't like running hard wire, joint prep is too critical to be cost effective. BUT, in my own shop I don't hesitate to pick it up and use it if need be. I have a MillerMatic 251X that will run .045 wire.} From fit up to weld out total time per weld averaged 36 min. Stick welding the same pipe takes 1 hr 15 min. but this is what we do, every day. X-ray is the EASIEST test to beat, like JR said, if you REALLY want to test the weldor cut and bend straps. The 400 preheat and 800 innerpass temps are needed when you are welding 1"material and greater.

I'm done. but will keep checking this thread just to see how far it will go. ;)