Does anyone know of a mix that will dissolve heavy, hard, cold, nasty, icky, disgusting flux from billets and blades?

Dave

 

 

heat. acids wire brush?  hard to tell not knowing what it is

I have heard of boiling the piece in water, assuming you are using borax, but I haven't tried it.

Sand mixed with 90 psi of air.... :)

20 mule team-

Tried Muratic acid- Nope

Tried Vinegar- Nope

Tried PCB Etchant- Nope

Blasting takes forever

Vinegar and muriatic should both work, hot more aggressively than cold but even cold. Skaylex takes 20 mule team off my jewelry projects, and it's just rebranded pH down.

How thick a layer are we talking about here? Should we be recommending a chipping hammer first, then chemical treatments?

Try abbrasives? I know the guys at Don Foggs place have talked about using abbrasives used for concrete. I'll have to find the thead once i get on my PC and not my phone.

Well, what I do is cut away the surface of the billet with a face mill using carbide cutting inserts.  Scale, and flux don't stand up to it at all.

Borax is water soluble and pretty proof against most other intuitive choices of solvent. Try a high pressure washer, maybe your next trip to the car wash. Even though there is a prominent sign at the local car wash saying NO parts washing it didn't say a word about power hammers so that's where my 50lb. LG. got it's thorough hosing after a gallon or so of solvent and brushing.

 

Cleaning borax is a job for water and cold it isn't enough of a base for acids to do much. The few times I was worried about it seeping out of joins I warmed the piece and dropped it in cool water. I figured capillarity would draw the water into any place large enough to hold borax. That's a version of how I flux really tight joints, warm the piece and put it in a bucket of a near saturate solution of borax. It's a trick I got from a jewelry making metal head friend and it's served me well.

 

And didn't THAT turn windy. <grin>

 

Frosty The Lucky.

Thanks for the info Frosty. The question I have is, how or when does flux become stuck to the billet? I have only done a couple billets, but both in both cases, by the time I was finished forging, all of the flux had fallen off either with the scale or by grinding in preparation for the next weld or shaping of the blade. Just wondering when I should be looking for this issue....

Thanks

Scott

If you forget to brush it off billet while its hot,  it cools and sets up in place...

I think MacB has it right. That's how we do it for forged pieces that get painted.

John

If you forget to brush it off billet while its hot,  it cools and sets up in place...

Seems like you would have to forget to beat on it too. Why flux it if you aren't gonna hammer it? (shruggy icon here) ;)

Some times after alot of welding a billet, a gasser can get apuddle of molten flux in the bottom. Even on the last normalizing heat a billet may get a coat ing of this that comes out when it is removed from heat. a wire brush removes it. Or heat it again and wire brush.
This routine becomes easy to follow when you have welded for a long time.

ahhh! Gotcha! Thanks, Rich :)

Miserable stuff, borax scale. When I used to forge Damascus with a press it was terrible. Under a power hammer you pretty well blast it off. Billet clean up time is like chalk and cheese between hammer and press.

 

The easiest way I have found to shift it is with an angle grinder. The more out of balance the disk the better for this application. You want it kind of 'bouncing' to knock it off. I usually do a bit with the normal side of the disk, a bit on the edge of the disk, then turn the grinder upside down and use the top of the disk - keep chopping and changing so the disk does not glaze up.

All of the ways you suggest that we use a grinder are dangerous,,,,,,,,,,

Windancer - How is it that you end up with such a build up of flux? That is missing from your original post, and may help with suggestions on how to combat it. What are you doing and how are you doing it now, to end up with so much extra flux afterwards?

When welding solid material the brushing takes it right off.

Did some cable Damascus and that cleaned up easily with just brushing.

Did a few combination billets with farrier file cores and some higher contrast layers added. That all worked clean with a quick swipe with the wire brush.

I was welding up some chainsaw chain and the flux and other nastiness collected in the voids. The more I worked the steel down the thicker [as in less runny] that gunk got. When I try to brush it the brush gets sticky and is a huge mess to clean up after removing just a little of the goo. It would probably take at least 2 dozen new brushes to clean it up.

I am trying to see a way to boil the [2] billets in something I never want to see again when finished.

I will probably just toss them into the Muratic acid and check them once a day for a week or sr and see what happens.

Thanks to all for the suggestions :)

However this turns out I will report back with the results.

Dave

Ok - so it's the chainsaw chain welding that's the issue only. While forge welding chainsaw chain - yes it builds up in the voids - as you forge weld it together, it decreases the voids for it to catch into, but after the heat - take the billet and firmly slap it down on the anvil a couple times while turning it to remove the flux deposits before forge welding.

All of the ways you suggest that we use a grinder are dangerous,,,,,,,,,,

 

It might be dangerous if you did it only wearing your underpants. Its not dangerous when I do it in full ppe, with a leather apron, and a forced air full face respirator (which I wear for all my bladesmithing dirty work). The disk is only a few thou out of balance which stops it glazing.

 

I did not suggest any one else did this, I merely stated that's the easiest way I have found to do it ;)

 

And on that note Ill not bother contributing to this section any more.

Grinding wheels are designed to be used while they are running true and balanced. To change those rules is asking for trouble. Such as: wheel failure with all that it may lead to.

 

I am sad that you took offense to me pointing that out and hope you will take time to reflect on the way youi consider this matter. It is of couirse youir shop and youi make your rules there.

Please read thoughts from others on this matter. And of course you could look into the manufacturers recomendations on the brand of wheels you use.

 

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I remove it several ways ways, I either heat it back up and hit it with some water while using the powerhammer or I use my angle grinder or the 6x48 belt grinder with the zircon belt....

Have you tried boiling it in white vinegar? I was just etching some wrought and it was going nowhere at room temperature.

 

I put the vinegar and the iron in an old Pyrex coffee pot and brought it to a low boil on the Coleman stove. This increase the aggressivness ten-fold.

 

Also, I found some new "cleaning strength" white vinegar at the grocery store. It is 6% strength as opposed to 5% in the regular.

 

 

Oh, and that was Jim Hrisoulas on the other forum that suggested 4.5" masonry wheels for scale removal. I have not tried it yet, but a lot of the folks were giving it good reviews.