fordmustangbrad Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 As some may know, I bought an 80# ACME Trenton and have been using it for a few weeks. I have become unhappy with it. I feel that my 3.5# hammer is too much for the anvil. I am not sure what I am supposed to be feeling, but it is certainly too small, and the way the anvil dances around on the stump is frustrating. I decided to try and find a heavier one, so I located a 100# Fisher for sale, and I contacted the fellow. We set up a time for me to check it out, and I went this morning (with money) to buy it. I looked at it, and other than being rusty, it looked pretty good. I forgot my hammer so I asked him to borrow a hammer to ping it and what I heard broke my spirit...."thud". I told him that the anvil was no good to me, and that I was sorry for wasting his time. Before I left, I just asked him if he happened to have any other blacksmithing equipment, and he said sure. He took me over to a corner in a shed and there were two other anvils sitting there! One was too small but the other was a medium sized Hay Budden, approximately 125#. He wanted $125 for it but since he had me drive all the way for a dead anvil, he said he could do $100. I bought it on the spot. As I was finishing up conversation with him, I figured I would ask if he had anything else. He said he had a few other anvils, and they were not for sale. I asked to see them and he showed me a row of about 5 anvils, from 20# to about 150#. It was a pretty impressive collection. When we were walking out of the building, he pointed at the bench and told me he would sell me that anvil if I wanted, and it was a really old looking (possibly colonial) anvil. I told him I would take it too, and when I did, he said that he had two others just like it if I wanted to pick my favorite. I said sure, and checked out the other two(in other buildings). They were the same, old pre 1820s anvils with no pritchell holes. I was super excited! I told him if he would sell them all, I would buy them. He named a price for the three old anvils, and a pile of 9 sets of tongs that I could not refuse. I couldn't even counter offer. I just handed out the money. $180 for three very old anvils and 9 sets of tongs. I do not plan on using the old anvils, but they are in the hands of someone who will appreciate them. I do however plan on using the Hay Budden. It sings off nicely when peened. I have sold a few hatchets so funding all of these tools is going to soon turn to profit. Totals for today: 125# Hay Budden...........................................$100 120# London style(no pritchell, no hardie)......$75 100# London style(only has hardie)................$50 50# Oddball anvil............................................$15 9 sets of heavy duty tongs..............................$40 Total spent.......................................................$280 Can't wait to research these old guys! They look awesome! I am so thrilled to have them! Thanks for looking friends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCROB Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 wow nice little collection for sure !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Olivo Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Nice take. Its amazing what some people have for sail when you go just to look at an anvil. If I had more money when i was looking for a second anvil I would have come home with a lot more than I took the trip for. Its kinda fun to see what else is available when people start talking. Though I always cringe at people when they say a nice ring its a misconception/ misinformation that just seems to keep propagating. Your striking a tuning fork thats all it tells you. Thin waist thin horn and heal make up your tuning fork. My lovely 185 lb anvil makes no ring just a simple thunk and has a 80 to 90 percent return. I love it and my nabors love it. They rarely know I am forging unless they come out and look over. Take a hardened ball bearing and a ruler. Drop the ball bearing from 10 inches and note how much the first bounce reaches. The ring is actually lost energy that goes into vibrating the heal and horn as in a tuning fork instead of into the peice your working. It is yet another reason why you should wear hearing protection whenever you forge or strike anything especially on a anvil that rings. You should also have winding sticks, a strait edge and a square to check an anvil that your looking to buy. Nice looking bunch of tongs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmustangbrad Posted October 10, 2013 Author Share Posted October 10, 2013 Stephen, when I said thud, I meant that it made a thud sound, but also that it was like I was hitting an anvil made of molding clay. The hammer had no return to it at all. It was like the anvil absorbed the hammer. It must be cast iron or something. The good anvils that have 80-90% return seem to bounce a hammer back at you. I have heard of dead anvils, but this is the first time I have seen it. Too bad, because a 100# Fisher would be a pretty good buy at $100.00. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matei campan Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 I have a ~70# anvil and I have worked quiet a bit on it. the secret is to bolt it down to make a single body with the stump, so there won't be any moving around anymore and you will not loose so much energy in moving your anvil. I mean bolting, not some big nails folded over to restrict the move. a side effect to this is you quiet it down . my 100# Fisher don't ring either, when unbolted it sounds just like the others anvils with the ring cut by bolting. that's what are the Fishers known for. better make the bearing ball test (maybe the hammer wasn't good), it would be a pity to miss a good anvil... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njanvilman Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Man, you did great. That HB is worth more than the whole lot combined. It was your lucky day! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Coke Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Greetings Brad, Shazing..... You hit the mother load... The HB will serve you well for a very long time... I love the London style .. It just goes to show ya whats still out there hiding in old sheds... Your lucky the smell of anvils takes a long time to get to Wisconsin ... The Frog would be on his way..LOL.. Forge on and make beautiful things Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Frog Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Great score! That HB looks fantastic. ....Jim, I was busy myself finding more treasures. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmustangbrad Posted October 10, 2013 Author Share Posted October 10, 2013 Does anyone know what the small 50# anvil is? I thought I could id it myself but am coming up empty handed. Thanks for all the comments! I really appreciate it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaughnT Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 "... the way the anvil dances around on the stump is frustrating." That is entirely your fault. Everything about that opening paragraph says you were frustrated by something caused by an error on your part, but blaming the anvil. Secure that anvil positively to the stump so that it can't dance around. If the stump is dancing around because it has an uneven bottom, fix that by nailing three small pieces of 2x4 to the base to give it a tripod effect. Or build a heavier stand. Sure wish you could have gotten a video of that dead Fisher. Like you, I've heard tons of stories about dead anvils, but I've never seen or heard one. Still be a great piece to have in the shop for upsetting stock, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmustangbrad Posted October 10, 2013 Author Share Posted October 10, 2013 Vaughn, I will be returning when the fellow decides to sell the rest of the anvils, so I will for sure pick up the Fisher too. Interestingly, it was the only anvil that was outside when I arrived to the man's house, kind of like he may have known. It had been outside for years too, maybe as decoration. I appreciate the advice on the stump too! The reason I can't permanently secure it is because I do my forging at my land, just outside of town. I leave my stump outside(because it is 500#) and I put my anvil away at night, in the locked shed. I think I will be much happier with this Hay Budden. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 So build a positive system to hold the anvil securely that easily allows the anvil to be removed at the end of the day---think chain binder or destaco. Shoot even one that uses a bolt to tighten it down that a ratchet can spin off at the end of the day. (strap with a right angle bend at the end with a hole in it. Piece of angle iron bolted to side of the stump with a hole in it. Bolt.---no charge for 10 seconds of design work) "A good craftsman never quarrels with his tools!" And being upset with a fisher cause it doesn't ring is rather like complaining your two door car only has 2 doors... I *love* the *thwap* my 515# Fisher has, why it's my main shop anvil rather than the 410# trenton. I figure I will save thousands of dollars in hearing aids *and* be able to hear my great grand kids talk! Next time do try the ball bearing test to get a more objective rating of the bounce---make sure the rust is removed in the spot you test too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
windancer Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 I will probably dream about your great deals tonight. My mind keeps going back to the ridiculous price you paid. Nice that you thought to ask about other stuff. Dang! Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmustangbrad Posted October 10, 2013 Author Share Posted October 10, 2013 When I go back, I will make a video of the ball bearing test on the Fisher. When it was struck, it felt like it was made of lead almost. Like the anvil absorbed all of the energy. I admit, I am a new guy to forging, but I feel like the metal was too soft to be used. Can't wait to see what the ball bearing test reveals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 My wife has pretty bad hearing impairment---I keep getting ask to read the lessons in Church because I can speak clearly and project my voice, a learned technique so I can get fed what I want... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmustangbrad Posted October 11, 2013 Author Share Posted October 11, 2013 Does anyone know what the small anvil is that I have pictured? I can't seem to find one like it online. It looks old and rough cast. Any suggestions will be appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaughnT Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 There were so many anvil-makers in the US during the colonial times that it would be impossible to identify an anvil that old unless it had some kind of markings. " The reason..." No excuse! You were so quick to blame a poor, defenseless anvil when there are dozens of ways to positively fasten an anvil to the stump while still allowing it to be moved reasonably. Shame, good sir, shame! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmustangbrad Posted October 11, 2013 Author Share Posted October 11, 2013 Vaughn, are you saying the funky shaped small anvil is possibly colonial? I had hoped it was old but there I can't seem to find images of anything similar online. Also, I have some ideas for temporarily securing the small anvil to the stump. I thought about just building a small rectangular frame out of 2x4 lumber that the anvil can sit down into on the stump. That should solve the movement issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaughnT Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 I'd say that it's definitely old. How old, though, is a very tough question. The short horn and lack of a cutting table is reminiscent of other Colonial anvils. No pritchel hole could certainly mean it was made prior to 1820, but the shape is very basic and could mean that it was made in someone's shop in 1920 and they just didn't want to go through the trouble of punching holes in it. Setting the small anvil down in a depression formed by 2x4's won't stop a lot of the bouncing around. You need to install some L-bolts or the like to positively secure the anvil while you're working. Something that you can torque or wedge to hold the anvil firmly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmustangbrad Posted October 13, 2013 Author Share Posted October 13, 2013 Well this goes to show that the ping test is not a good test at all......... This Hay Budden anvil that SCREAMS when you touch it with a hammer, has a HORRIBLE ball bearing rebound test. It only rebounds 61%. Is this bad? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matei campan Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 the rust on the surface may distort the results. clean the face (flap disc?) and test again. on the other hand, I don't think it's a "bad" rebound, just BOLT the thing down and work on it. about bolting - I can put on or remove the anvil from the stump by unbolting in less than 5 minutes. and it's bolted without thinking of fast install/removal. you can use two pieces of solid flat steel or angle iron like in this pic: https://www.google.ro/search?q=bolt+down+anvil&client=ubuntu&hs=L8a&channel=fs&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=qTlaUuffCOqw0QXYhYDACA&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAQ&biw=1301&bih=678&dpr=1#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=iozcPfVlY-HBNM%3A%3BJ4Ahc4iW1nZZEM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fi730.photobucket.com%252Falbums%252Fww306%252FXTJohn%252Fanvil-1web.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fprimalfires.yuku.com%252Ftopic%252F4423%252FTFS-anvils%3B1024%3B805 there you can cut one of the holes in the steel straps so you'll be able to rotate open one of them (to be able to remove the anvil) when un-tighten the bolts. this you can do it in no time, maybe a minute or two... you'll REALLY feel the difference between unbolted to bolted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pault17 Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 Brad, it was great meeting you at the shop last night. You were right in not telling me what you had there. I would have followed you home... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmustangbrad Posted October 20, 2013 Author Share Posted October 20, 2013 I was very happy to find all those anvils in one location. I tried out the nail jig you gave me and it works great! I used copper but I got the idea. Look in the tools section to see the picture of the nail I made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anvil Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 hey, guys, cut him some slack. if he had our experience, he would have secured his anvil,if his anvil were secured,he would not have been looking for a new anvil, if he hadn't been looking for a new anvil he wouldn't have stumbled on this once in a lifetime score. just another example of that great ole addage,,," god smiles on fools and blacksmiths", and without question, I definitely fit the catagory for both :) . it is important to secure your anvil, and there are many sutable ways to do this. my way is to do this: trace the foot onto your wood stump, chisel this put to deeper than the foot, fill about half with fine sand. level the sand and set yer anvil on top. the sand is easy to level with a submarine level, and deadens the ring of yer anvil. congrats on your great score. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5starhobo (blake) Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 A stationary anvil is important... :) I find that an anvil that cannot move at all, provides the best and most satisfying results.. I have worked on a 80lb peter wright, secured to a tripod stand with bolts and angle iron over the feet to where it will not move at all, with the stand bolted to the concrete floor below. No ring, makes a thud, doesnt bounce around. This felt like working on a massive anvil, when in reality it was only 80lbs! Definately shocked me. Anvil ring/movement = loss of energy! So if the anvil doesnt ring and doesnt move, you technically should be rebounding more energy through the anvil! If anyone caught any flaws in what i said, feel free to correct me! I would like to learn myself :) just my $0.02 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.