ThorsHammer82 Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 ok, so Having done a couple of sessoins forging now in my brake drum forge I've noticed after I'm done along with the coked up coal that is left there is also clumped together chunks of "stuff" that almost looking like it's melted together. I can only assume that these are clinkers. What exactly are they, and what can I do to reduce the number/size I end up with. I added some bricks into my brake drum in this last session to reduce the size of the fire, and build it's height. This greatly improved my fuel consumption, but It also caused me to have issues with the work getting blocked by clinkers. Is this just something I'm going to have to learn to deal with? Or am I just doing something wrong? I could probably fill half a coffee can with the chunks I've pulled out over the last few sessions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arkie Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 Thors... Those are indeed clinkers. They will significantly block airflow. You can carefully hook onto or shovel them out with the air turned down or off while forging. They can be "sticky" and can be lifted out carefully when hot, but may fall apart since they can be soft. If you only are forging a short time, you can wait until things cool down, like the next day and remove them easier after they have hardened. Some forges have clinker breakers to aid in getting rid of the clinkers. On my brake drum forge, after a long time, I have had them be up to 4" in diameter and 1/2" to 3/4" thick....no wonder my fire was not doing anything!!! Gotta remember to dig them out more frequently. Getting up on the learning curve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 Also depending on the type of bricks you used, some of the clinker could be from those bricks melting also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 Quality of coal makes a huge difference! Some coal I have used I had to pull clinker every half hour or two; other I forged 6 hours straight and had less clinker at the end than I did after 1/2 an hour of the other coal. Note that rate of consumption makes a difference as does forge welding as flux can be part of the clinker too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThorsHammer82 Posted September 16, 2013 Author Share Posted September 16, 2013 Thomas, mind clarifying what you mean by rate of consumption? THe more coal, the more clinkers? It would be a shame if the only coal sorce near me only sells coal with lots of clinker issues... guess it's something I'm going to have to learn to live with. But I can say that the clinkers did stick to the bricks but there were far more (at least a larger mass) after the previous burn without the bricks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timothy Miller Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 There is no dealing with clinkers they are heartless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmccustomknives Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 In coke, it is made up of carbon, ash and residual minirals (clinkers). I've pulled some whoppers out of my forge before I figured out the coal dust that was part of my coal supply wasn't entirely coal. Dirty coal will give a lot of clinkers. Forge design will also have an effect on how the clinkers interact with the air flow. For some reason in my forge I don't have a problem with them much, so when I go to start a fire the next day I'll fish out some Doosies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThorsHammer82 Posted September 16, 2013 Author Share Posted September 16, 2013 I haven't had any issues with them getting in the way or blocking airflow until I tried to make the fire smaller. But I was also at the end of the bucket so the dust that was in the bottom could have helped contribute to the problems. Hopefully the next bucket will be better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSW Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 If you see black spots in the bottom of your fire or big "hollows" chances are they are clinker. I can usually tell when I've got them that way when the fire burns down a bit. As mentioned I can usually dig down and pluck them out with a poker. I have a lot more trouble with the anthracite I was given vs the bituminous coal I've worked with. Part of the problem with the anthracite is probably due to crud that's mixed in with it from the old coal dump in the basement where it came from. However you can often see the clinker that was "bubbling" out of the chunks of coal after the fire is out, so obviously it's not the best stuff in general. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 Clinker, the stuff that is NOT coal, coke, or fuel, the impurities that did not and will not burn. Just back off on the air and let the clinker cool and you can usually hook it out with a fire tool. If it breaks apart then use tongs, rake, shovel or other methods of removal. Once the clinker is removed (or most of it removed, to your satisfaction) then drag the coals back in to the fire, add new coke from the side of the fire, and add air. You will have a new fire in a minute or so. If you do not know what clinker is or looks like, then throw a double handfull of dirt into a good hot fire and turn up the heat. It will melt and form the nicest clinker you ever saw. (grin) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 /'?do=embed' frameborder='0' data-embedContent>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan C Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 The clinkers I can deal with and remove, what gives me trouble is after 4-5 hours the buildup of ash that has to be cleaned out which seems to keep the forge from being able to get to a good heat. Any tricks to dealing with that? Otherwise it's let the forge cool down enough where you can remove it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L Smith Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 Make a clinker hook - - Forge a 18" small bar or rebar into a right angle hook about 2" long on one end and drag them out. Not hard to see after a while. I was preparing a new fire one morning and raking them out by hand and pulled out a scorpion, both of us were surprised! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThorsHammer82 Posted September 17, 2013 Author Share Posted September 17, 2013 It's pretty obvious what they are once you've got them. and yeah, I've got the tool to drag them out. I think I'll go with a slightly larger fire next time too. to concentrated of a fire caused the problem this time so spread it out a little and I should be good to go. Thanks a lot guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Hale Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 Actually I hate to rub folks wrong but that is not clinkers at all! It is for sure petrified dinosaur poo. A quite valuable commodity in most places. I have pretty well saturated the local market here but can provide you with a small quantity now and then for half the normal outrageous market price...You pay shipping of course! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 It is called an ash dump for a reason. Once the ash builds up and covers, blocks, or obstructs the incoming air flow, you start having problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John McPherson Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 Why, it is almost as if blacksmiths of old had the same problems and found ways to deal with them! Maybe we could learn from their writings and artifacts? Naw, where is the fun in that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan C Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 guess I need to stir the ashes around more so they fall in the dump, thanks Glenn A friend who's from up North said the clinker or dino poo are valuable for putting under your tires when it's icey for traction. They'd get buckets of it when kids and then sell their services and poo to stranded motorists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThorsHammer82 Posted September 17, 2013 Author Share Posted September 17, 2013 Why, it is almost as if blacksmiths of old had the same problems and found ways to deal with them! Maybe we could learn from their writings and artifacts? Naw, where is the fun in that? isn't that exactly what I'm doing? learning form the experience of others to confirm my initial thoughts and move forward using tried and true methods? Sorry if I didn't come into this knowing the things that people who have been smithing for decades know and understand. The last I checked the point of forrums wasn't just for "good ole boys" to pat eachother on the back, but to share knowledge and information with people who may not know. Yes I get that there is hundreds of thousands of posts on here, and any number could have already covered just about any question that someone could have. But seriously, the amount of flack people get on here for asking a simple question is beyond rediculous. some of you guys spend more time ripping into prospective newby's than it would take to answer their questions in the first place. Thank you to everyone that take the time to answer question and spread you're knowledge. It's greatly appreciated by me and many others who use this site. and to the other guys. well I'm sorry, I ran out of salt this morning to take you with. I'll be sure to pick up more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Hale Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 Seems that some of the folks here have rubbed you wrong...I looked back through the thread to make sure it was not me ,,(this time!) A lot of threads have this happen..Here is my side: Many items are covered over and over on this site. When anyone including me suggests that you look back through the forum for the answer..For a couple of reasons that makes sense. If I have typed in the same answer many times I may just not be in the mood to do it once again. Also when it was asked before and answered, someone may have typed a better answer than can be found anywhere else. We have a brain trust that visits here that is outstanding and it is evolutionary. Some past members have moved on,,,(or did they just quit typing the same answers more?) And we have new folks show up that bring with them skills and information to continually upgrade the site. Often we see folks come in and post in a section of the forum saying they cannot find any information anywhere at all on this site about something,,and they post that in the section that covers just wot they wish to learn about. And as you mentioned someone will likely take them to task about it. Others may, even in their very first post, say I am looking for information about "this", In the following link it says "this" and I don't quite grasp it...Help me please? Think about this and see if you may see a wee bit different side of the issue. I am pretty well set in my ways,,,you may be also. I have found that oil and water do not mix and have stopped years back trying to help that situation. Learn as much as you can in wotever fashion you choose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThorsHammer82 Posted September 17, 2013 Author Share Posted September 17, 2013 Seems that some of the folks here have rubbed you wrong...I looked back through the thread to make sure it was not me ,,(this time!) A lot of threads have this happen..Here is my side: Many items are covered over and over on this site. When anyone including me suggests that you look back through the forum for the answer..For a couple of reasons that makes sense. If I have typed in the same answer many times I may just not be in the mood to do it once again. Also when it was asked before and answered, someone may have typed a better answer than can be found anywhere else. We have a brain trust that visits here that is outstanding and it is evolutionary. Some past members have moved on,,,(or did they just quit typing the same answers more?) And we have new folks show up that bring with them skills and information to continually upgrade the site. Often we see folks come in and post in a section of the forum saying they cannot find any information anywhere at all on this site about something,,and they post that in the section that covers just wot they wish to learn about. And as you mentioned someone will likely take them to task about it. Others may, even in their very first post, say I am looking for information about "this", In the following link it says "this" and I don't quite grasp it...Help me please? Think about this and see if you may see a wee bit different side of the issue. I am pretty well set in my ways,,,you may be also. I have found that oil and water do not mix and have stopped years back trying to help that situation. Learn as much as you can in wotever fashion you choose. No Rich, for once you were fine. and actually included a bit of refreshing humor. but like I said, I ran out of grains of salt to take with the "cranky" ones. It's ok though I had a snickers bar. I'm better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arkie Posted September 18, 2013 Share Posted September 18, 2013 No Rich, for once you were fine. and actually included a bit of refreshing humor. but like I said, I ran out of grains of salt to take with the "cranky" ones. It's ok though I had a snickers bar. I'm better. A Snicker's Bar will cure just about anything...next to that, peanut butter works pretty well too!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted September 18, 2013 Share Posted September 18, 2013 isn't that exactly what I'm doing? learning form the experience of others to confirm my initial thoughts and move forward using tried and true methods? Sorry if I didn't come into this knowing the things that people who have been smithing for decades know and understand. The last I checked the point of forums wasn't just for "good ole boys" to pat each other on the back, but to share knowledge and information with people who may not know. Yes I get that there is hundreds of thousands of posts on here, and any number could have already covered just about any question that someone could have. But seriously, the amount of flack people get on here for asking a simple question is beyond ridiculous . some of you guys spend more time ripping into prospective newby's than it would take to answer their questions in the first place. Thank you to everyone that take the time to answer question and spread you're knowledge. It's greatly appreciated by me and many others who use this site. and to the other guys. well I'm sorry, I ran out of salt this morning to take you with. I'll be sure to pick up more. I know of no one ripping into a newbie on IForgeIron. Personal attacks are not allowed on the site. If you would please, send me those URLs pm, so I can address the issue. We hear the same questions being ask over and over from the beginners, after all they are beginners trying to learn. As Rich said, many people have put a lot of time and effort to formulate a complete article type answer, going into great detail. There is no reason to rewrite the same material one more time, again, when a reference to the original can be made. We can not force them to read the material but, if they do read, they will gain the answer they seek as well as a wealth of related knowledge by following the reference. My suggestion to throw a double hand full of dirt into the forge is valid. It produces a clinker that can and will block the airway. This way the fellow operating the forge can see the clinker and the effect on the way the forge operates. They can clean out the clinker and see the results of it being removed. This is valuable information for the future when you get less than perfect fuel, or when debris enters the forge. Ash in the air way is another learning experience. After a while, you learn to check the ash dump early and often. Maybe I should have explained in greater detail the results of ash build up and or ash blocking the air way. It is a basic problem with a basic solution. If someone would write an in depth article on either subject, I will post it on the site so it can be referenced in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arkie Posted September 18, 2013 Share Posted September 18, 2013 Glenn, I am a newbie to the forum, and I am amazed at how "clean" it is. No snipping, arguments, personal attacks, etc. Really a pleasure to be a part of IFI!! If anyone thinks there are problems here, just cruise over to some of the welding forums. Those can be like an internet free-for-all. Newbies are simply fresh meat on some. Keep up the good work on a great site and forum!! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan C Posted September 18, 2013 Share Posted September 18, 2013 My dump gate rarely fills up, but sounds like I need to stir the pot so to speak to move those ashes into the tuyere and down the pipe. I'll give that a shot tomorrow and post the results. It doesn't seem like the ash is blocking the airway, but filling up the firepot (11" brakedrum) on the sides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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