Going rate for doing demo's.

[DSW]

For those of you who do demo's, I was wondering what the going rate might be. I know obviously guys with big names can demand premium prices. I'm thinking more about the average small time guy or hobbyist who does local fairs, and events.

 

 

Reason I ask, I found out last month that the  local parks department was looking for a blacksmith demonstrator  for the local park day. At the time when I read about it in the PABA newsletter, I was committed to a job near Chicago that weekend and didn't think anything of it. Well recently they called and pushed back the job so I was free next weekend. I finally managed to track down who to contact at the park and they said they'd already spent almost all thier budget, but asked for my contact info for next year. They also asked what I wanted to do the demo. Caught me a bit flat footed at the time because I hadn't really stopped to think about it.

 

 

I mentioned I'd like to at least cover my expenses. I figure about $20 in coal and maybe $80 in steel, so I said maybe $100. They said they could cover that and if I wanted to come I was welcome. Thinking a bit more about steel, I might be a bit low depending on what I use, so after I go and pick up materials tomorrow I may tell them I need to push it up a bit because of the cost of steel. Maybe to $150. I told them I'd have to work some things out and get back to them tomorrow with what I needed as far as facilities, power etc. ( Mostly I'm looking for a nice shady sopt so I don't have to pack the big tent for the day and someplace I can park the truck in close proximity if I need to grab something out of the truck. Available electric would be a bonus so I could bring the forge with the electric blower if I want.

 

 

Any how, originally I was thinking of this more as a chance to get exposure for my general contracting business, you know leave a few cards out on the table ect, and maybe pick up a few new customers who need small fix it type jobs. I also figured I'd bring a few of the horse shoe coat hooks etc that I've made. If I'd had more time in advance, I'd have made more stuff to try and sell.

[Thomas Dean]

Maybe just me but if I said $100.00 the that's what it would be THIS time. Have enough items to sell in order to make it more worth the time. $80 worth of material for a 1 day demo is a lot of metal....IMO...Most of the items you want to make for one of these are quick items that the crowd can see go from a raw piece of metal to a finished product "right before their eyes" ;)   No problem having a larger project going if you want but there are times during those that really is like watching paint dry, hence the reason to have the 'fast' items ready to make. Main thing is to have fun and entertain the crowd! sure helps with the sells!

[windancer]

Tough to change a price once it is given- I would eat the loss and chalk it up as valuable learning.

Dave

[DSW]

I wasn't really thinking about changing the price for now. More thinking about what to tell them for the future. I know it's tough to change once you've done something for someone at X in the past. But on the other hand I also don't want to sell myself short in the future.

 

I've eaten plenty of costs for customers over the years. Usually I make a point of telling them costs were higher than expected, but that I'll stick with my original estimate for this one only. Any future work will have to be higher. Most are understanding, but sometimes I've had to just walk away when people are XXXX's. They expect if you were willing to loose money on this one, you are willing to loose money on others. Of course they are the first ones to want to get extra after the fact.

[Frank Turley]

I'm fairly well known in our field, and I have given many demos, out of state, out of country, and in state (New Mexico). These demos are for established regional groups and are normally two days in length. I'm well paid when compared with touristy and public demos. However, I have never made any money on these excursions. I need to factor in getting flight info and ticketing, afternoon and evening packing, and  flight time. The flight fare is paid for, but I am away from my shop for that one day+. I'm not producing anything, so I consider that 'dead time.' Again, during the demo and the flight to and fro, more dead time away from the shop. At my age and with the airline personal wear & tear, it takes me another day to unpack and recover. The advantage? I am allowed to promote my school.

 

I was not properly prepared for my last public demo which was at a large county fair in Colorado. I received an honorarium, but I'm afraid my forge and anvil setup was a bit rusty, literally, especially the forge hood. I did not have enough items to sell, and they were exhibited on an old plywood, not very attractive. "We are too far from the tree." Lots of people passed by and wondered what I was doing, even when they saw me pounding on hot iron. For many of them, I might have been doing road work. A few wondered when the hot dogs would be ready.

 

From that experience, I learned to have a bigger, better, and cleaner display with a well made sign saying who I was and what I did.

 

Sayings and Cornpone

FYI. Donkey, burro, and ass are synonyms. A male is a jack and a female is a jenny. Cross a jack ass with a mare (horse), you get a mule. Cross a stallion (horse) with a jenny, you get a hinny. Both mules and hinnies are hybrids and cannot produce offspring.

 

Just why you felt the need to post about this animal mating termonnology is pushing it, and I have to wonder if it just an excuse to bypass normal language restrictions?

[forgemaster]

One aspect I have always looked at is who is providing the insurance, are you providing your own liability etc or is the organiser, (if it is the organiser, make sure it is well and truly up to date and applicable to what you are doing).  If you are providing your own insurance make sure your insurer knows that you are doing an "outside"

demo and make sure you charge to recover the costs of your insurance along with everything else.  By the time I normally factor in everything from pulling the shop to bits, packing up stuff to take, getting there, getting accom, I reckon it would be cheaper just to send the organisers a cheque for $200.00 and stay home, I reckon I'd come out better off.

 

Phil

[Marksnagel]

Our local small town has a festival every year. Last weekend as a matter of fact. Two years ago I talked to them about doing a demo for the fair. They were extatic.

 

To rent a vendor table they wanted $100. I told them that if they wanted me to do a demo I would do it for free so long as I would be able to have a table to sell my wares. This seemed like a win-win situation. My home town so the demo would be at no charge. My daughter would sell at the table and I would get the word out and I would make a few dollars.

 The woman in charge said that she would talk to the Historic Society and get back to me. She did and her reply was, "If you do a demo and sell your wares, then you would only be charged the $100 vendor fee." ???????????? "If you do the demo and don't sell your wares then they will treat me as a non-profit who was educating the public on Blacksmithing and only charge me the $50 non-profit fee." Again ?????????????????????

 

I explained that most Blacksmiths that do demos charge a fee and or a take of the tickets. I have not been to the festival since and refuse to go.

 

If you do a demo and you have a table with your wares, have someone else work the table. Doing the demo, you will have no time to sell anything.

 

I would take the deal as you agreed to, sell some wares, meet some people, make some contacts, make some friends.

 

Mark <><

[divermike]

For a beginning demo, to get your name out, I would say 100 bucks is just fine, I must have done 20 or so without pay, but sold the heck out of my pieces. Now I ask for 150-200 and usually get it, the state fair in NY even paid 100 and that was just a sheer pleasure to do. Now I have new fertile ground in Michigan to work, and I just bout a 6x10 utility trailer, so oh boy here we go!!

[ptree]

I have a demo trailer, forge built in so a its hitch it and load stuuf to seel in the truck and off I go. If the demo is more than a gallon of gas each way, I factor gas in. I NEVER pay a fee period. I tell organizers, you are going to advertise a blacksmith and I am a draw to your event. Most festivals provide me cold water, a shady spot with enough room to set up safely, room to park the truck very close. I don't do ones that don't:)

I do high schools in the local area for gas money and lunch. My contribution to society.

I do no charge demos for the sites that sell my wares all year.

I don't do festivals with the name of a food or drink in the festival name as they are usually a total bust. i don't do festivals that allow flea market sales, or as my fellow BFH member Steve King says, "If they allow the sale of inflatable Spiderman toys don't go"

[DSW]

Thanks guys. An update on the demo.

 

Things went fairly well. I gave them an invoice for the agreed upon $100. Materials and all weren't as bad as I'd thought, so I did reasonably well with that guesstimate. I could have picked a slightly better spot. I set up where it looked like it would be in the shade the whole day, only to find the "sunny" spot ended up being the nicer spot as far as the shade was concerned and my spot ended up in full sun from 11-2pm. Made it hard to judge metal temp by color when it almost immediately lost all it's color as soon as I hit the sun. Live and learn for next year... I did make a point of wanting the truck as close as possible, and that turned out reasonably well. I handed out a ton of business cards and talked to a few people about small possible jobs, so we'll see what comes of it. Didn't really sell anything, but then I didn't really have much on hand in advance to try and sell anyways. We'll work on that for the next time around. If nothing else, I hooked back up with one of the guys who was in my forging class this summer. Turns out he lives not all that far from me. We may team up next time around. He also has access to a fairly well equipped shop in the city, so that's a bonus. The Parks dept was really happy and asked me to put them on the schedule again for next year.

[Bigred1o1]

I demo at a museum I tend to this as a donation but I was asked to find out what I would charge per event

demos are about six hours at a go depending on the day it can be half hour demo and talk to between 6 and 15 kids and 1-3 teachers/chaperones 

or its on a day that they are open to the public for events on those days it tends to be a tag team event with another smith one working the other explaining and or trading off striking and making hardware on the museums wishlist

the blacksmith shop is mostly stocked I just bring my own punches and the other hand tools (more just to know I have what i need) 

 

this is not a place that i get much of a chance to sell work or pick up paying work opportunities but I see it as good thing to do (so long story short my costs are minimal besides from loosing a days work on the farm so any feed back would be welcome)

 

sorry for poking this thread with a stick

[Bigred1o1]

that is true but as most of the talk on here has involved how much to charge for a demo where you bring all your tools and set up (this adds a good bit of back end time to a demo) and as this is more to find out what it would cost if they had to hire someone ells to do the demo

as to how much or how little my time is worth i know what i would charge per hour if i am making reproduction tools and hardware or teaching but doing simple things like hooks nails and other quick start to finish things for people as they come through seems like it should be on a lower level

similar to the fact that i have a different price per hour for doing on the ground work vs running an excavator

i was hoping for a bit of advice as to what a fare price was to charge not only for myself but for those paying me

[John McPherson]

If you are doing this as a public service to a museum, school, church camp or scout group, then that is what I would consider donation to a charity. If they offer to let you sell your wares, pass out business cards, cover your gas, fuel, etc. then I would consider that a bonus.

 

However, is this is a purely mercenary undertaking where you work and talk, entertaining the public, but do not sell your wares? Then you are doing a dis-service to yourself and other smiths if you are charging less than what you would expect from a fair days work, including travel time, loading/unloading, gas fuel, insurance......

 

The question then becomes: how much are you and your setup worth to the event? Are you a period correct costumed interpreter, or some scruffy guy in worn out tee shirt? Are you a showman, a spellbinding orator, dazzling them with displays of science, skill and wit? Are folks lined up three deep to see what is going on, or do three unattended children constitute your fan base?

[Jakesshop]

I do several demos a year now and here's how my cost is broke down.
Doing a demo at a local museum for school kids I donate that time and tend to just make stock for later events while I'm there. Most times I'll give the museum a few items for their gift shop or to be used in a fundraiser.
I do a four day County Fair and they pay me 250 plus six comped tickets and parking passes. They also pay for my fuel. They do let me sell there along with any guest smiths that I may bring in.
This year I'm doing two Ren Faires, both are benefiting a charity that's a 501 © 3 so I can right off a percentage of the costs. I do not charge them and they don't charge for the spot. They let me sell items that are blacksmith made or closely related.
If I'm asked to demo at another Faire, I'll be asking for money!

[Bigred1o1]

ok as there seems to be some confusion here i am going to try and break down a bit more what i was asking

 most of the rates shown here have been for people bringing their own gear and setting up to demo

this means you have more time invested before and after the event setting up and taking down your gear

i live in norther vt these events are put on for the local schools other people come and do other demos some payed some not

the blacksmiths shop is fully stocked i bring my own punches and hammers just bc i like working with my own tools but other than that everything is covered i don't keep anything i make each class that comes through leaves with something to take back to the classroom

i was asked to find out what a fare price for doing such a demo would this is in an attempt to educate the museum as well as myself

so that we can move forward with them knowing what the real face value of the time I have donated is and so that they know that if they want more time what the real cost is

 

so what would you charge to demo for six hours where you have about half a hour set up time aka getting the fire hot and the anvils and vices where you want them and getting every cool and locked back up when you leave coal and materials are provided

 

thanks

[Steve Sells]

Once again my local gropp got bit.  Back story,  2 years ago I made the mistake of taking part in the local Makers fair, they waived the site fees, but affter I got set up (which getting a spot was a pain and a major story in itself)  I found out if I wanted to sell they wanted $100 sales fee from me.When they called me last year  I told them $200 perday plus I get to sell,  they didnt agree, so no smith last year.   This year they didnt call me, they contacted my local group, who agreed to do the fair, and guess what ? Yup they wanted to Charge the local not for profit smithing guild for settingg up, plus the additional $100 fee for selling,  needless to say they didnt have any smiths there this year either. and I had warned my group about the post issues.

 

Not all places will work with smiths, some only want more money.   I choose to walk away rather than PAY to work for a weekend. The worst part is the foundry group was HIRED to come from out of state,  but they can't let a local group take part wioht out buying in.

 

Most places either pay me, or waive any usual site fees,  some even feed me and my family.  Because we are an attraction, and bringing the 1,000's of pounds of gear isnt a simple task either, we should get compensated.