railroad tie plate

[Matt Smith]

I recently scored a railroad tie plate i thought of useing it ti hold hardie tools since my anvil doesnt have a hardie hole.....any thoughts...or any other uses

[Frosty]

Sure, they're good steel without being blade worthy, tough resilient and don't work harden quickly at all. the only problem that jumps out at me right off is the depth of contact for stakes. Tie plates are relatively thin so bottom tools would be more likely to shift or tilt. For many bottom tools it wouldn't happen or make a difference, say for a swage. for a hardy on the other hand it can make it hard to cut a straight line lengthwise if the hardy can shift.

 

Frosty The Lucky.

[Ridgewayforge]

They work reasonably well. I use one, and I find the main problem is like Frosty said, the hardy tends to shift. Another idea for you to ponder is the use of vise-mounte d tools. Then, you can buy smaller stock to make a hardy with a 1/2" shank and have nothing to worry about. Light work is best on it, though. 

[PaulKrzysz]

Why not cut a sized hardy hole and weld a section of square tube onto the bottom side? No problems for shifting, and if you make it long enough, and sharpen it on the bottom of the tubing you can hammer  it into a stump and have a dedicated hardy. If you were to hammer it in, it would be a good idea to drill a little wood out first so the hardy shank has somewhere to go.

[ThomasPowers]

Drill an appropriate sized hole in your stump and then mount the tieplate over it to give proper depth to hold hardies.  Not you can find some sq tubing and drill a hole where you have to drive the tubing in to fit and so have a steel lined hole with the tieplate over it to deal with the downward force issues while hammering.

[Matt Smith]

Thanks for the tips

[Walking Dog]

I punched a hole (hot) in a tie plate and screwed it to a heavy chunk of wood.  I put this under my leg vise so the leg wouldn't have to rest on my concrete floor.  Obviously this raises the vise a few inches, but that was also what I needed. 

 

Walking Dog

[Justin Keller]

I have one of these plates as well, I have been planning on normalizing it and using it as a cutting plate flipped upside-down on my anvil.

[BIGGUNDOCTOR]

^{I used all of mine on the ground as floor tiles}

[Matt Smith]

^{I used all of mine on the ground as floor tiles}

id like to see a pic of that

[BIGGUNDOCTOR]

I'll see if I can get out there to do that.  My property is sand and gravel, so I raked the rocks away, smoothed out the sand, and laid the plates upside down. Swept some more sand over them to stabilize them, and they have worked out pretty good so far.

 

My smithy is outside,and consists of two wind barriers/walls made out of 55 gallon drums laid on their sides, and welded.  Each wall is free standing, and is approx. 3'deep, 8' tall, and 10' long - a drum is 24"x36". Each wall is stacked 4 drums high and is offset layered 5 on bottom then 4, then 5, then 4 more. Welded them flat on top of my deckover trailer, then stood up and set in place with my forklift. With the tops cut off they make good storage walls too. Best of all was the price of the drums - free from work.

[gerald brostek]

Around 1942 my father tiled the entire barn floor with them. ( about 40 X 40) used cinders from an abandoned RR line to bed them. He found a way to use everything that could be gotten for free. Back then the RR Repair crews just pitched them to the side and never recycled them. Poor folks have poor ways.

[mnidoone]

So I was actually investigating into a way to do this. I was thinking of welding two tie plates together then drilling a hole into the hole roughly where the round and hardy hole will be. I like that I'm not the only one with this idea, but would 2 tie plates welded together be overkill? 

Another thing I want to use it for is larger round and rectangle holes for drifting (kinda like the oversized blocks, think they are technically swage blocks, that have a series of round, rectangular and square holes for all different sizes of drifts. 

[Frosty]

Maybe you should make a sketch of what you want to try. The way it looks you want to weld a couple tie plates together as an anvil or maybe a stake plate?

Frosty The Lucky.

[Ridgeway Forge Studio]

Two tie plates welded together might work as a makeshift swage block. The only question is how much in welding materials makes this “free” project worth it over purchasing a swage block or a larger piece of metal (maybe a 3”x 3x2 chunk) and putting some holes in that?

[JHCC]

One thing to keep in mind is that most tie plates taper in thickness from one end to the other. If you want your working surface to be horizontal, you’ll need to take this into account. 

[mnidoone]

Stake plate would be a more appropriate description. Mainly just something I can use for hardy tools, as well as whenever I'm drifting and need to support the project while allowing the drift to go through. I was thinking of 2 tie plates welded (just the surrounding edge) with the bottom faces touching each other. Then adding a longer slightly more narrow rectangular hole, longer and wider rectangular hole and finally an assortment of rounds between 1\4 inch - 1 inch. 

It wouldn't be a true swage, so i apologize for the misuse of the word, i just had no other word to describe what I was thinking

 

Stake plate would be a more appropriate description. Mainly just something I can use for hardy tools, as well as whenever I'm drifting and need to support the project while allowing the drift to go through. I was thinking of 2 tie plates welded (just the surrounding edge) with the bottom faces touching each other. Then adding a longer slightly more narrow rectangular hole, longer and wider rectangular hole and finally an assortment of rounds between 1\4 inch - 1 inch. 

It wouldn't be a true swage, so i apologize for the misuse of the word, i just had no other word to describe what I was thinking

 

 

Found a picture of the properly made finished idea I had. Not worried about the swages on the sides, just the myriad of shaped holes. 

[Frosty]

Don't sweat the terminology, we're pretty good at asking for clarification. 

I don't think stake plate quite describes what you want to make. Stake plates have a variety of square holes intended to hold various stake tools, mostly of the tin knocker's trade. Pic below. Stake plates are thicker and have tapered holes.

I think a better description of what you want to make would be a "Bolster plate." The reinforce the stock "bolster it" when punching, drifting, etc. to prevent deformation.  I use the Pritchel hole on my anvil as a bolster most often but have made a couple tools to use in it too. The one that gets the most use is a pretty wimpy hold fast to hold stock in a swage block or over the edge of the hardy hole. I often use the hardy hole to sink into say for a spoon. 

Frosty The Lucky.

[George N. M.]

IMO two RR track plate welded together back to back for a bolster would work BUT .......   My concern would be that the back of the welded together plates would not be flat and that would interfere in its use when punching or drifting.  All the track plates I have seen have ridges which hold the rail from moving laterally.  I suppose you could grind them off.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

[Frosty]

Good point George, I got absorbed in stake plates and missed a couple serious issues! The retaining ridges on track plate would interfere with use as you describe but. . . How about the same ridges on the bottom side of the stack interfering with mounting it to something solidly? 

I think you'll be WAY ahead in your quest by finding, buying, scrounging, etc. a piece of mild steel plate 1/2"  +/- it's not critical.  You can work mild steel with common HS drills, etc. A square, even tapered hole like a stake plate is easy as drilling a round hole the same diameter as the narrow side of the square (or whatever) hole and centered on the location. Then a reciprocating saw with a tilted blade OR a shim epoxied to the base plate to match the desired hole taper will clean the hole nicely. I speak from experience try it on some practice pieces, it's HARD to get broken pieces of blade out of saw cuts WHEN you brake a blade. I foolishly used carbide bi metal blades, use mono-steel blades!

If a person wanted a serious project a stake plate can be fabricated from heavy wall angle iron, lots of cutting, grinding and welding. The question of course being, do you do enough sheet metal forming to need a stake plate? Blacksmith usually do nicely with a few swages and a bick or two. And we'll be more than happy to help. 

Frosty The Lucky.

[mnidoone]

At the core I just need something to mount hardies (hardy's?) as well as be able to perform some ultra basic drifts. I do want to be able to do some larger drifts later on (like hammer or axe drifts) but for now with my home setup I just need to get a hardy hole and a couple jack hammer bits from a rental store to make a bottom hot cut. I would like to make a pritchel in it for a hold fast. 

The tie plates I have access too have nothing on the bottoms last I checked, but i also won't be able to check until next weekend. But those are some good points, I'll check that before I explore more. 

 

@frosty I'm a huge fan of the spare\scrap metal ideas. I love to repurpose things, I'm just running into alot of brick walls trying to get companies to not blow me off right now. 

One recycling center basically gives me free use, but its the military base family housing center so its not often I can get my hands on anything larger then 3\4 in stock. Let alone a plate or large square. 

[Frosty]

Understood, we'll get you up and going. 

I'll try and take terminology a little at a time as it comes up but it's important that we try to speak the same jargon so as to not have to spend lots of time explaining what we mean. 

A "hardy" is ONE tool, not a type or tools. It is a cut off chisel with a square shank that fits the hardy hole. There are variations, hot, cold, etc. but only the ONE tool. The other handy things that fit in the hardy hole are "Bottom tools." Top tools are placed on top of the work and struck with a hammer.

I have a couple thoughts for scrounging stock on base. I'm sure there are various maintenance shops, Heavy and light vehicle repair and maint. shops. Truck axles mounted on end make excellent anvils, seriously excellent depth of rebound we can talk about later if you wish. Base fab shops that make and repair say heavy steel things? Machine shop, etc. You have the picture yes?

Buy a box of donuts and ask the guys who work there. Hmmmm?

I used to have pretty free reign in the state heavy duty shop's scrap dumpster and with permission some new stock from the racks. Most I used for the job and it was all okay the dumpster diving on the other hand was take it and go. It actually saved the state money, they had to pay to have it hauled off because the paperwork involved in selling it for scrap cost 2-3x what it was worth. My job had me traveling all over the state and spending a lot of time is the local maintenance shops, drill rigs require lots of work, they break often. Anyway, got some good scrounge in lots of shops.

One shop the guys never used the lathe even though they often had jobs for it. Why? Nobody knew how to sharpen a bit and they kept breaking carbides due to chatter. Sooooo, I showed the foreman how to sharpen the 3 basics, left right and finish, no need for threading bits and why the carbides were chattering and how to use them too. After lunch I held a brief class and coached while the guys sharpened bits and turned some steel. 

The foreman said they had some old tool nobody knew what to do with and had me take a look. A Lancaster pattern swage block that was being used to hold welding rod and dust. I told him what it was, and used for. Well doggone, no blacksmithing going on here since the road commission days, you want it? 

It lives happily in my shop. Virtually every state shop had a Fisher anvil and still wants to keep it and an identical Lancaster pattern swage block. Turned out back in the early days the Anchorage and Fairbanks RR shops did all their own iron and steel casting and the swage blocks were part of the journeyman test so all the highways shops got at least one. Many went to the scrappers over the years but I got this one. Anybody interested check out my estate sale, I'll have Deb announce it here.

No, I'm not on my way out . . . yet but when I do cross the rainbow bridge I'm sure there will be lots of stuff Deb'll have to sell, auction, etc. No SCRAPPER! I made her promise.

Frosty The Lucky.

[mnidoone]

I've been slowly picking away via email at alot of the machine shops, construction companies and other odds and ends shops that might have scrap steel, just waiting on replies as I branch put more and more. 

 

Appreciate the understanding of the hardy, i had always understood it as just the slot for the tool, so anything that went into it was a "hardy tool" i still have to reach out to the rail road maintenance shop here. Would be amazing to find an anvil! But I'm more hopeful of finding a scrap block of steel to repurpose (I'm also more a fan of the saw makers anvil patterns and would love to do that and design a bick\cone to use in that block.) but for now its a horizontal railroad block and hopefully some tie plates to use for a hardy and bottom tools.

 

I'm still trying to get a sketch that doesn't look like my 3 year old drew it, but my ability to draw is about as good as my hammer making abilities. Its functional, but it makes the infamous blob fish pleasing to look at

[Frosty]

As George just said in another thread do NOT email or use the contact button on shop, etc. web pages! Email only gets answered if you represent a big company or perhaps a superior rank.

Phone call or in person will get you further in an hour than a week of emails. Be polite and to the point, they're at work and time is money so don't waste it. You'll get the receptionist who knows more about what's going on in the shop than the guys working the floor so s/he's your primary contact. Be really nice to him/er, s/he'll know exactly who to talk to and can set you up in advance for what you're looking for.

S/he'll know who to call if they can't help you and will shorten your search drastically. 

Talking to someone in person is even better unless it's a really big shop, then the phone can be faster as they can connect you to THE person you need. If it's a small shop, like the local steel suppliers the people to talk to are the yard hands on the loading dock.

One last thought, finding what you're looking for on the phone is an acquired skill, the more you do it the better you get.

Frosty The Lucky.

[mnidoone]

I would kill for either of those options, but my job leaves me little to no time to explore those as options. 

I do have an opportunity this monday so long as these spots are open. So I'm hoping monday winds up productive