Timothy Miller Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 This is a weird one I have seen many broken vices but never one like this. It was such a shapely little vise I felt it need to be saved. The handle end of the screw sheared off and was lost. I decided to try to fix purely by forging to stretch my skills and learn more about different how things can be built up by forge welding. I still have all of the thread. I faced off the rough end of the thread in the lathe. I decided to try to make a new handle end out of wrought iron like the older screws were were done. I started by wrapping a collar of wrought iron around a 1" bar of wrought iron. I then forged some 1 1/2" half round in a bottom swage and wrapped a collar for the ball end. It took about 4 or 5 heats to close up the weld seems and round it up properly. My next step will to weld the collar that bears up around the front jaw then clean it up on my lathe. I will then forge braze it to the remainder of the old screw. The ball will be cross drilled and a new handle installed. I will post more photos as I progress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Coke Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 Greetings Tim, Great save... What you are doing is an example for all smiths as to what a professional really is.. By the way I have a 5x5 acorn table just like yours.. Keep up with the great work..... Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLMartin Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 Looks just dandy, like a lolly pop. Do you have a joint in mind for the forge braze, I cant imagine it would be a flat butt braze? Maybe a socket and tennon brazed together? Good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timothy Miller Posted May 15, 2013 Author Share Posted May 15, 2013 Yes I plan on doing a socket and tenon joint for the forge brazed joint. I am tiring to share some advanced level stuff to inspire us all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 Good save Timothy! Looks to me like you have the skills to pull this off the way it should be pulled off. Are you going to use commercial brazing rod or the old school smitherly version? I'll be following this journey, thanks for letting us ride along. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doc Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 Tim I might suggest a dovetail joint rather than a tenon. Easier to braze and visually check it's integrity also a more common period method of repair. Just a thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timothy Miller Posted May 16, 2013 Author Share Posted May 16, 2013 I will keep that in mind Doc, it will probably be stronger as well. It has been my plan all along to forge braze it. This is tonight's effort First photo shows the collar prior to forge welding. The second shows collar in place and fluxed. Third shows the finished weld. This project would have been a lot easier with swage to form the the ball and collar but I am only making one. I am fairly sure that the peter wright factory had some form of swage to forge this part. Next step will be to take it to the lathe and refine the shape. I have a bunch of excess material here but I did that on purpose because I was not sure how the forge welding would play out. I wanted to finished part to took look like it was original to the vise. I have two other peter wright vise screws to use as a model strangely they are both different but both beautifully turned with nice decorative details. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Ravizza Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 Tim, Very nice work.Thats an impressive bit of forge welding. I am glad you are bringing that vise back to life! The ball looks great. Are you using wrought iron or steel for the repairs? I am looking forward to seeing the final result. I have a feeling it will be almost indistiguishable from a real Peter Wright. The dovetail braze repair should work well. This was a recomended repair to fix stems of keys that had broken apart. It was good seeing you at Ashokan. Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timothy Miller Posted May 17, 2013 Author Share Posted May 17, 2013 Dan to give my self a break on a tough job I did it all in wrought iron. Today I chucked it up in the lathe and got it rough turned. It was rough going at first because it was about 5/16" out of round and full of lumps. This is a result of me having too much metal in the scarf and hand hammering. But this is how you learn. A set of dies would have helped to make the part more concentric and saved a bunch of time in forging and turning. Next step will be to further refine and smooth the shape then add decorative details. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doc Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 Pretty nice job of free hand turning of a ball shape! Especially for a guy who isn't normally a lathe hand :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timothy Miller Posted May 18, 2013 Author Share Posted May 18, 2013 I have spent many an hour at my old south bend lathe. After forging lathe work is my second love. There is something about a spinning work piece and trimming away metal slowly with a sharp bit of metal that really appeals to me that I find meditative. This is today's effort, I finished up the turning, rough forged the dove tail and began filing it to shape. The dove tail is much longer than it needs to be at this point. Next step will be to trim it and fit it to the remainder of the screw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweany Posted May 19, 2013 Share Posted May 19, 2013 Good save! Love the detail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wroughton Posted May 19, 2013 Share Posted May 19, 2013 Consider me inspired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Turley Posted May 19, 2013 Share Posted May 19, 2013 More fun than people. I've done horseshoe calk forge brazing, but nothing as large as your project. We used copper for the 'hard solder' instead of brass. The old farriers called it a 'penny weld' as lots of the time, they would cut a old copper penny into thirds or in half and use that. In thinking about why copper and not brass, I suspect that because copper was an element, they knew its behavior. It's going to melt at 1,980F, whereas brass as an alloy is going to melt at various temperatures depending on the proportions of zinc and copper. Commercial brazing rod is alloyed to melt at about 1,600F, making it perhaps easier to use than copper, meaning not so long a wait for liquidus.to occur. FYI, we often used copper wire for the braze, and it was placed next to the calk. The calk had a nib on the end, a little sharp right-angled "spur". With the shoe at a lemon heat, I would drive the room temp nib into the shoe web to hold it in place. It was important that there be no daylight between shoe and calk. Some shoers bent the wire into a U and wrapped it around the calk. Borax was applied and the ensemble placed into a deep coke fire. As soon as the copper melted, we were taught to do three things. First, to apply pressure either by pressing between anvil and hammer or sqeezing in the vise. This enhances the capillary action that occurs when brazing. This is not a blow; it is steady pressure. Secondly, to give the braze a split second quench in water. This does two things. It 'freezes' the copper and it pops cuprous oxide scale to the surface. While the material is still hot, you quickly wire brush the oxides, and this helps to clean up the braze area, meaning a lot less cold cleanup later.We let the braze air cool, because the calk was made of high carbon steel. A good braze is strong, because you get an alloying situation at the ferrous surfaces for a few thousandths of an inch. This information may or may not help Tim, but I've been meaning to get it in print. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Everything Mac Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 This is coming along rather nicely. I look forward to seeing it finished. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Emig Posted May 26, 2013 Share Posted May 26, 2013 Saw the project in person-very interesting-Tim does some pretty difficult things to increase his skill (and just for fun also ,I think). Seeing people do stuff like this and post pics inspires me to do more difficult projects. After all, what's the worst that can happen-it might not work or I ruin it? Then I learn from my failure and do better next time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timothy Miller Posted May 31, 2013 Author Share Posted May 31, 2013 So I got side tracked for a few days due to a big rush at work. I got the dove tail filed to shape and trimmed. I started to cut the female part in the remainder of the screw with a hacksaw. Luckily wrought iron is soft and easily cut and filed. Next step will be to chisel out the slot and file to fit the other half. I may have to forge a special chisel to do the job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timothy Miller Posted June 2, 2013 Author Share Posted June 2, 2013 I got the dovetail fitted and brazed it together yesterday. I had to do a few brazing heats to get enough brass into the joint. I had to do a bit of filing and chiseling to get the excess brass off the threads and continue the threads through the dovetail part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yves Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 Timothy, Are you into jewlery now? This is beautifull work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Turley Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 It's shop jewelry and lookin' good. Poco a poco. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timothy Miller Posted June 11, 2013 Author Share Posted June 11, 2013 So here is a bit more. I swaged down some scrap wrought iron for the handle and managed to forge weld on one of the knobs I chose the oval shape because I think it looks better than round. It took a bit of rasping to get to shape because I did not have a die to form the shape. Perhaps tomorrow I will finish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Emig Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 Dude's got mad skills! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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