Materials & Design Vision

[01tundra]

Not sure if that's the right title, or really even if I'm asking these questions in a way that makes sense.....but I'll give it a shot.

First off, I realize that I've only been forging for a month or so and I will (hopefully be) picking up skills and learning different techniques for the rest of my life. But after looking at the stove thread in here, and many other projects that people on this forum build and share with us, it just reinforces a thought that's been bugging me a lot lately - how does one gain the vision to be able to look at a piece of old metal laying around on the road, beach, field, in a barn, etc. and turn it into a work of art? Is it something that's picked up over time, once you learn the principles of forging and get some time under your belt?

At this point in my journey, I'm stuck in the thought pattern that I have to go buy a piece of stock to make something. I have tons of metal laying around my shop, leaf spring packs, coil springs, misc. steel drops, spikes, etc.......but all I see are big hunks of metal, where most of you would probably be thinking "I could make this and that out of all that metal".

Not sure I'm wording it right. I understand that the finished product is a result of the person's design abilities, forging abilities, and planning experience, but I just can't look at a piece of metal and know what to use it for unless it's straight, clean, and fairly close to the size of stock I want to end up with once the piece is made.

I don't want to only be able to make drive hooks the rest of my life, but how does one go from that to making all these incredible pieces of work? I'm hoping it involves more of experience/skill with forging than it does being born an artist, because I've never been overly artistic when attempting to draw, paint, etc. I'm finding myself almost discouraged at times.............kind of like I was unfortunately not born with the gift of an artistic mind and that I've waited too long to get into blacksmithing to be able to achieve the capabilty of making great pieces of work like I see on this forum.

Thanks.

[Mainely,Bob]

A good way to start is to contact the people who`s work you admire. If they have the time and are willing to talk then start a conversation about this with them.
Second suggestion would be to locate where the nearest blacksmithing guild or club meets and attend meetings.
Third suggestion would be to ask someone who knows more than you do if they would like to be your mentor and then remember that a realtionship like that is supposed to be a partnership and should be a two way, not one way, street.
Fourth suggestion would be to practice, practice, practice. If your scrap pile only growing and not turning over then stop spending so much time looking for metal and spend more time pounding it.
Fifth suggestion would be to look at the Blueprints section for useful things to practice on.
Sixth suggestion is to plant the seeds of patience and tend to them on a regular basis.

[bigfootnampa]

I am using RR spikes to forge wedges for tightening my hammer handles lately. I also used a spike to make a lever handle for the door of the 1951 Spartan travel trailer we are restoring. Pretty diverse possibilities from the same raw rusty chunk of metal! You have to get past thinking of saving your arm and cross over into envisioning each hunk of steel as just a blob of plastic waiting for transformation. Most of the complex projects are combinations of many small techniques and design elements that are combined artfully. To get there you have to upload an arsenal of such elements and techniques into your repertoire... one at a time! Some you will copy and some will become your own by altering the originals. Some you will invent as you go investigating various avenues of inspiration when you notice them. Some designs spring from natural forms and some from the way that the metal tells you it wants to be as you work with it. Start with small steps and then take a few bigger strides... one day you too will climb a mountain!

[ThomasPowers]

Lots of different aspects to this. I believe some is innate as well as some is learned.

In some ways it can be like learning to play jazz---you need to internalize what your skills
can accomplish with your instrument and then learn to set it free. I find that I tend to
design things to use the tools and techniques I know *and* the materials I already have to
hand.

My Grandfather was a tinkerer and my Father an engineer so I learned growing up that I *could*
modify things to suit myself---it's almost part of the definition of being human!

Being cheap helps---if you have to save your "allowance" for a month to fill your propane tank;
you learn that your scrap pile is your friend---as is the scrap yard. (I always check the
scrapyard before I proceed on to the steel sales place.) Anything you can build from just
your scrap pile is "free money". I often will go when folks scrap out a garage and
buy nuts and bolts---getting a dollar bolt for a penny is a great investment as I don't have
to drive into town and spend the money to buy one when I need one.

So for training exercises: look at your scrap pile and try to figure out something you can make from
just items in it---and make them!

[Private Entrance]

I don't have near the experience that the preceding answerers have, but I can tell you that inspiration can come from anywhere. I had heated something up and quenched it, and at some point knocked it off the work bench onto the floor. It made a really sweet bell-like tone when it bounced, so I thought that it would make a cool wind chime. I made that into my next project, which turned out ok.

Just keep your eyes, ears, and mind open, and things will come to you. It helps to play games like 'that cloud looks like a...' It helps you see things in other things.

[ThomasPowers]

I'll be doing the demo for the October SWABA meeting at my forge.
It's making a fairly simple natural sculpture using worn rusted out
wood bits that are forged flat and developed on the anvil with a ball
ended hammer. They come out looking like common native plants out
here.

I came up with it when my younger siblings dogs were
destroying all my mother's garden plants---so I told her I'd make her
a plant that the *dogs* would be the ones in trouble if they messed
with it. Even if they urinate on it will just speed up the rust
patination on them.

How did I design it? I had seen ones made from rebar; but felt they
were a bit off---then I was at the fleamarket and a fellow had a coffee
can of old bits rusted past recovery for $2 and I saw in my mind what
they would look like heated up and flattened.

I tend not to keep everything straight and flat as I pound them out like
I would for a knife blade as the "natural curves" make them look better
(more natural) than bending them afterwards.

Another exercise: look at something someone else has made and figure out how
*you* would make something similar with the tools and materials you have to
hand and with any changes to it you think would make it better!

[Francis Trez Cole]

Blacksmithing there are only 8 things you can do with a piece of metal 1.taper.2 spread.3.upset,4 twist it,5.bend it.6 punch a hole in it. 7 cut it and 8 weld it. once you have those skills down it is 60% perspiration and 50% inspirational. that is 110% remember art is subjective. You can have all the great ideas in the world but it is how it effects others that makes it good art,

[FieryFurnace]

Hi there!

You first need to get a good grasp on the basics. Then move to joinery. After you understand joinery and how it works, then you can start putting pieces of metal together and making multiple pieces work together.

Practicly everything in blacksmithing is a combination of forging (changing the dimension and shape of the steel,) and joinery (putting those pieces together.)

That's the order I learned in.

As far as developing an eye for art, just practice! Study art! Get inspiration from other artist blacksmiths. (Don't steal their work...change it and make it your own.)

You will develop an eye for seeing what can be made out of a piece of steel once you've gotten some experience and a good foundational skill set under your belt.
I don't bother with much scrap as I have new steel readily available and cheap. You'll develop your eye according to what you have available.

Come up to my shop sometime if you want! I'm only two hours away!

[EWCTool]

In sculpture there are three main fundamentals. they are very independent of one another that without any one of the three, the work will rarely have any importance.

Technique: This is the actual use of the tools in creating the piece.

Form: The shape or the package in which the idea is presented.

Content: The feeling or message that is conveyed by the piece.

You need to remember that like it or not you are now an artist. You need to think with the right side of the brain. Make it a puzzle of how this piece came into existence. I see the metal as a volume of material that will conform to the shape that I desire.

I have heard of artists making many drawings of what they intend to make. They make the drawings of the subject from many different angles, and try to make the newest drawing more intricate or more detailed than the last. Once they have a pretty good idea of what the piece will look like in two dimensions they will next move to modeling clay. Here they make many models of what the the final piece will look like at a fraction of the size. they then make more, but no two are the same. the are always more intricate and detailed than the last. Finally they go to the forge to see what they can come up with. This way of doing things saves time and materials.

These ideas are not my own. They come from a book titled Sculpture by Arthur Williams. ISBN - 0871922770

[01tundra]

I appreciate the input, all great points.

I am a member of Fiddlers Grove Blacksmith Association and the Appalachian Blacksmith Association. I attend class every Tuesday night.

Joinery is most likely one of the big missing pieces since I have not learned it yet. I think once I learn that skill I'll hopefully be able to see the big picture better.

I've been able to complete all my assignments in class with little problems, but I find myself struggling once I'm at home working on my own forge. I'm inspired by the small intricate work, which I'm finding are the toughest for me. Since I haven't learned joinery, I find myself baffled at how people can put all those little branches, acorns, leaves, etc on those tiny vines.....my first instinct is to plug the mig welder in, but I'm trying to avoid getting into that habit it possible.

I'm just going to be patient and keep plugging away at it. A member of this forum from Missouri is planning on dropping by this Sunday, that will probably help me a lot having someone that's experienced around while I'm in my own smithy.

After reading some of your suggestions, I'm beginning to think that using the business card holder that I attempted to forge last weekend as a reference point may be the ticket. I'm lacking the "flow" that's needed and everything I attempt seems to turn out so harsh. I'm going to keep trying to improve the card holder until I hopefully see improvements. Another thing I have to figure out is how to get symmetry. The first sides always easy because I'm making it up as I go, it's the opposite side that's hard to make match. I probably need to start sketching up what I want to build before I fire up the forge.

[SmoothBore]

Experience will teach you what is possible, ... and that understanding of what CAN be done, is what instills the Confidence to try things.

( And pretty much ANYTHING is possible. )


But in all honesty, ... it's true that some folks are more able to "visualize" , ... and some just can't.



.

[Frank Turley]

Nowadays, you're in a world of art. Take a drawing class. Learn about scale, proportion, color, texture, figure-ground relationships, chiaroscuro, negative space, trompe l'oeil, and stuff like that. Our approach is usually linear; that is, we forge linear pieces and the bends and twists come later. Then comes the assembly. Traditionally, our work is often seen in elevation and is not in the round. "In elevation" means such things as gates, window grilles, room dividers, and such like. "In the round" indicates such things as chandeliers and well heads.

My old acquaintance, Rocha, at one time taught beginning design at Parsons. The first class field trip was to Central Park where everone unrolled a blank newsprint paper about 30' long. Each student was to pick a blade of grass and draw it near full length on the paper. The second field trip was to the Empire State Building. Each student was given a postage stamp sized piece of blank paper, and each was to draw the building on the tiny paper. Rocha said with a grin, "At the end of the second field trip, they were beginning to learn how to see!!"

[EGreen]

Francis has it nailed.unless I missed it ,nobody said to keep a pencil an paper by your easy chair.watch the old westerns an I mean old.look at the wagon seats,
doors, harness hooks, tools.you will pick up ideas.leaf springs make pretty fair garden tools long handled or short.make them in sets of 3.the one I use the most is hammered and flattened on one end for a blade an the opposite end is pointed.metal kitchen chair legs thataper make good sockets for handles
leave a bit of curve to the "pick" to help with digging.look up "strawberry hoe " to get an idea as to what I mean.fire place tools,poker,rake an shovel are easy made
bar b que tools pancke turners dutch oven lid lifters.this is all light weight stuf that will tune your mind and body.I bought a BBQ fork once that was made w/ a welders
chipping hammer,the coil spring type,head was cut off a short section of round rod added,and a big staple from a telephone pole,the kind that holds
the wooden ground cover on.just rambling thoughts

[EGreen]

Francis has it nailed.unless I missed it ,nobody said to keep a pencil an paper by your easy chair.watch the old westerns an I mean old.look at the wagon seats,
doors, harness hooks, tools.you will pick up ideas.leaf springs make pretty fair garden tools long handled or short.make them in sets of 3.the one I use the most is hammered and flattened on one end for a blade an the opposite end is pointed.metal kitchen chair legs thataper make good sockets for handles
leave a bit of curve to the "pick" to help with digging.look up "strawberry hoe " to get an idea as to what I mean.fire place tools,poker,rake an shovel are easy made
bar b que tools pancke turners dutch oven lid lifters.this is all light weight stuf that will tune your mind and body.I bought a BBQ fork once that was made w/ a welders
chipping hammer,the coil spring type,head was cut off a short section of round rod added,and a big staple from a telephone pole,the kind that holds
the wooden ground cover on.just rambling thoughts

[ZIG]

I like the suggestion of watching Westerns, Gunsmoke,even Dr.Quinn too.
I see alot of household items that I make due to something I saw from such shows. Just whatever inspires You to do whatever.
Play dough or modeling clay is helpful as well. To help figure out how to make things.
I live in Tennessee and we have a battle site from the civil war within a 1/4 mile from my house.
They have reenacted the battle and folks come from all over to see traditional camp sites as well.
I get alot of inspiration from what is for sale to these reenactors. From tent stakes to spits to trammels. Etc

You will make it your own. No matter where you saw It from. Cause its from you. Making tools is a great way too. You'll want to make something using your tools you made. I guarantee.
Learn the basics and When in doubt of What to make from your scrap. Just check out those civil war pages That have pieces for sale.
there is always something I Never thought of to make. From them.
But I am interested in that stuff anyway kinda?
But I've made a few things upon request from friends involved with That type thing.
And I promise you That if You ever make a gift for someone Like That. And they use it at home or for whatever purpose.
You'll get folks trying to get You to make other things That they can't find or need to be period correct during those things.
My postmaster in my small town, of 240 ,she needed something for a event. A Dutch oven lifting device.
that's What she called it. Lol
Anyway. I was driven to make her the best thing I could. And learned alot by researching it. To Be accurate For their event.
One thing leads to another and before long. You'll be outta scrap and Might be able to sell your work to buy new material or tooling.
Good luck and Just keep your eyes open. If you Don't want to make hooks forever. Check out the civil war product sites. Even if you don't know of any such reenacted battles or whatever.
It doesn't matter. I just used that as a example. Because we just had a group come here to shoot their canons, lately.
And it inspired me to research some items they had displayed around their camps.
Tripods for cooking over a fire are definitely needed by them all.
Horse hoof picks out of RR spikes, even broached for women to hold scarfs on their body.
So you don't gotta look far to figure anything out. And if its scrap your using. Your cost should be low for any mistakes you make.
Remember this :
experience is What you receive, usually , right after you needed it.

Thought that was a good quote I saw on here.

Stay hungry for items to make and things will appear from everywhere. TV, movies, YouTube site from mark aspery. Is a amazing thing. I have all his books.
Just have fun and be open minded. The more you stay in the shop the more things will present themselves That are aching to be transformed into Your own art.

[01tundra]

I had a lot of my questions answered after working all day yesterday with member MOblacksmith0530.

He was able to get me in the right mindset and now I feel as though I'm on track to reaching my goals. It's funny how sometimes all it takes to gain confidence is spending some time working with right mentors.

[trying-it]

Go to Hobby Lobby or such and invest a few dollars in a block of Roma Plastilina clay

http://www.artmolds.com/product_details.cfm?product_id=121&page=0&cat_name=Clays

Hammer and tool it into a desired shape or object. Hammer it lightly on your anvil too! Try your texture tools, eye punches, slitters/drifts, etc. in it first.

Whatever you can do to that clay you can also do in hot metal, just remember using your fingers may be an option in the clay, but not in hot metal so omit this process from your list of can-do's!

Clay will also show how much material is needed for a specific shape or size, but greatly reduces steel scrap generated during trial and error.

Once something is tried just form the clay back into a ball for later use.

Keep trying, have fun, and BE safe!

Stan

[01tundra]

Go to Hobby Lobby or such and invest a few dollars in a block of Roma Plastilina clay

http://www.artmolds....&cat_name=Clays

Hammer and tool it into a desired shape or object. Hammer it lightly on your anvil too! Try your texture tools, eye punches, slitters/drifts, etc. in it first.

Whatever you can do to that clay you can also do in hot metal, just remember using your fingers may be an option in the clay, but not in hot metal so omit this process from your list of can-do's!

Clay will also show how much material is needed for a specific shape or size, but greatly reduces steel scrap generated during trial and error.

Once something is tried just form the clay back into a ball for later use.

Keep trying, have fun, and BE safe!

Stan

Thanks.

Do you think the consistency matters much? I was thinking that the #3 "medium firm" may be a good choice.

[trying-it]

Probably a good first choice.

It also comes in a few different colors so later if you get bit by the pattern welding/damascus bug you can play with pattern development :rolleyes:

[ThomasPowers]

Don't get hung up on symmetry, I'd like to see a business card holder like that with sort of a dying sine wave look---big first loop and then a series of ever smaller loops...

[01tundra]

I ended up picking up a block of #2 & #3 Roma Plastilina clay. The #2 is really hard to work with because it's so firm, the #3 would definitely have to be pre-heated to work with.

This past Saturday I was trying to use the clay to figure out some difficult bends and it wasn't really working too good for me, so I started looking around the shop for something else to use, what I came up with may seem silly, but it worked like a charm for me. I bought some Kwiktwist ties from Lowes a few months ago for securing loads in my truck bed, I keep them on the two back security hoops in the bed and they've proven to be one of the handiest things I've ever bought. They're basically a huge twist tie with a foam cover over it.

The ties can be formed in any shape, what I ended up doing was using a second one to mimic the shape I was trying to make and then straighten it out to know how much stock to start with. It worked so well for me that I figured I'd share

http://www.kwiktwist.com/Home.html