Cable Damascus question(s)

[slydark]

Hi! Im completley new to this forum and Im looking forward to a long stay with the comunity.
I had some questions about making cable damascus, which have been bugging me.

I did some research on many kinds of damascus and the processes therein and I think it is obvious that the easiest kind of damascus I could possible make would be a cable damascus.
and although I already have a good deal of insight into the technique of making it I am at a complete and utter loss as to where to aquire some suitable cable.
much to my embarassment I have spent at least two days scouring the internet with rediculous amounts of google searches yeilding little-to-no satisfactory results.
all I know is that the cable I want needs to be multi-stranded, steel or iron, and a diameter of 1/2 inch to 2 inches.

and finally after so much exposition my question is this:
What kind of cable does one use when making cable damascus?
what is it called?
where can I get some?

thanks
SLY

[JPH]

Sly:

Any wire rope/rigging supply place should be able to supply you with cut offs..what you need is at least plow share steel wire rope...I use a lot of XXX improved plow share steel material that I get from an elevator service company here in southern Nevada, this is very simplir to 1095 and the "regular" plow share is akin to 1060...

DO NOT USE PLATED/GALVANIZED materials...you also want all wire (no plastic or fibre fillers..) rope...

This stuff welds up like it was all glue (at least for me it does..but it has been said I can weld up just about anything but the crack of dawn...) and while it's not the prettiest material or the best choice for a knife...it does ok in the cutting department....

Hope this helps..

JPH

[me miller]

Crane services or oil rig areas also can be a source for cable. Cranes if they get a kink in the cable have to unspool what is on it for insurance reasons and a lot of it is available for the asking.

[Rich Hale]

If you are like me and want it the easy way call Sheffield knife supply in Florida and order a piece they have it in small lengths to get you going. I dont have the phone number at hand but should not be difficult.

[slydark]

thanks a whole ton, that deffinately did help!

[slydark]

JPH-thanks man, definatley comprehensive and helpfull.
Ill do just that.
me miller-great idea. I do love free-cheap stuff
Rich Hale-Do they have a website?

[Glenn]

Pattern welding, commonly (and mistakenly) know as "Damascus"
Cable Damascus blade

If you use the following link I am NOT responsible for shorting out your keyboard from the drool.
Get a towel (bath towel) before you use the link.
Salamander Armoury

[ThomasPowers]

One other suggestion: if you are asking where you can find something then some hint of where you are at might get you a location specific answer--ie if you are in Maine or Iceland then oilfield supply co's are pretty thin but a smith from those areas might know the local elevator repair co.

Not only kinks but just uselife is a factor. On oilwells drilling rigs they have to change out their heavy cable on a regular basis---much cheaper than having one fail when you have 13,000' of drill pipe in the hole to get jammed or a crew to get smashed.

[Ecart]

Or you could be blessed enough to work at a sawmill that is throwing out some logging cable. I got probably 50 feet of 3/4" wire rope from work one day. Probably half of it was new and they were just going to throw it out because they had gotten what they wanted out of it. If there are loggers in your area, see if they have any old cable. But they may be less likely to throw it out as the others that have been mentioned.
As for welding it up, I am on the other end of the spectrum from JPH. I have put mine through several welding heats and still have parts that are not welded very well yet. Hope you fall somewhere between the two of us, hopefully more toward his end of the spectrum. ;)

[JPH]

Howdy!!

Oh soething else that skipped my all too feeble memory...if you weld it in a bottom "V" swage it makes it go so much easier than on a flat surface....really helps to close up all that air space between the strands...

JPH

[oakwoodforge]

When Shopping for cable to forge Look for these words :
EXTRA IMPROVED PLOW STEEL, RIGHT REGULAR LAY
NO fiber core , No Guessing as to what it is, and its cheap !
The Knife specialty stores charge 3 -4 X's what the stuff is worth!
But you can go here :
WebRiggingSupply - Wire Rope Cable > Gen. Purp. Rope
They charge about $3.84 per foot for 1.25 " dia EXTRA IMPROVED PLOW STEEL ( Treat it like 1095 ) , RIGHT REGULAR LAY, They may think you are a Little funny asking for 3 one foot sections of 1.25 dia cable , But hey they sell it by the foot right

Happy hammering

Jens

[Redddddd]

On 4/30/2007 at 6:06 PM, slydark said:

Hi! Im completley new to this forum and Im looking forward to a long stay with the comunity.
I had some questions about making cable damascus, which have been bugging me.

I did some research on many kinds of damascus and the processes therein and I think it is obvious that the easiest kind of damascus I could possible make would be a cable damascus.
and although I already have a good deal of insight into the technique of making it I am at a complete and utter loss as to where to aquire some suitable cable.
much to my embarassment I have spent at least two days scouring the internet with rediculous amounts of google searches yeilding little-to-no satisfactory results.
all I know is that the cable I want needs to be multi-stranded, steel or iron, and a diameter of 1/2 inch to 2 inches.

and finally after so much exposition my question is this:
What kind of cable does one use when making cable damascus?
what is it called?
where can I get some?

thanks
SLY

I can send you some cable from a drilling rig in west texas

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

Welcome from the Ozark mountains. slydark hasn't logged on since May 11, 2007, so I doubt he/she will see this. Don't be surprised if a dozen members do reply and ask for you to send them some.

[George N. M.]

Welcome aboard from 7500' in SE Wyoming.  Glad to have you.

Is the cable galvanized (silver colored) and what diameter?  When I was in the oil patch I saw both galvanized and non-galvanized in use.  Galvanized is BAD to use for cable damascus because the plating burns off and can cause heavy metal poisoning which is not something you would wish on your worst enemy.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

[Purple Bullet]

As another exploiter of earth's bountiful resources, I can second Georges' wise counsel.  While not absolute, it is helpful to look at how the cable in question was used. If it is "standing rigging", that is guy wires or otherwise something that doesn't move (including walkway railings) it is likely galvanized. Elevator cables, tuggers and crane lines usually are not galvanized but depend on a heavy coat of grease for corrosion protection.

Tuggers (winches) can have right hand lay or left hand lay cable. I believe most elevator and crane cables have a core lay and outer lay opposite of each other. I've never used this kind of cable for Damascus. I'm sure it could be done, but the way I work, my first pass at welding is actually putting a super twist on the cable in the same direction as the lay, then I lightly hammer or press in a V block. Second and third heats get progressively harder hits. A dual lay cable would be unravelling in one direction or the other.

You can get a nice feather pattern by using a right hand lay billet and welding to a left hand lay billet. I buy my cable 10' at a time from a rigging supply. They were nice enough to give me a drop off that I made my first cable Damascus knife from. If you want to try the feather cable, make sure the right hand and left hand cable are of the same size and alloy. Even minor differences like country of origin of (reputed to be ) the same alloy can show up in the finished product.

[Frosty]

The term you're looking for is "Counter Rotating" wire rope. If you'd like a challenge try splicing counter rotating wire rope!

You can't twist it and tighten or loosen it but I imagine you could cause some interesting patterns by twisting before welding. Hmmmm.

If the cable is just oily don't worry about it plain oil will act as flux. Getting welding flux into the cable is as easy as dissolving the flux in water and applying it to warm below boiling temp cable as it cools the cable will draw the solution all the way in through capillarity. It's a jeweler's method of fluxing.

Personally I think a V block is more effective than a swage block for setting cable welds. 

As a last note about welding cable. Why on EARTH cut it to length THEN weld it? If you leave it long the billet ends can't unravel, cut it to length later when there's minimum risk. Heck you could weld the whole thing for several billets. Just saying.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Purple Bullet]

Frosty - Yeah, I've tried that. The only problem with doing that is the cable generally has a natural curve that can be inconvenient to work with. Also smaller diameters tend to flop around. Since I'm forge welding two billets together I start with smaller diameter cable (~5/8" - 3/4") and since I HAVE to weld up one end, welding on a 3/8' rod on the other for a handle is no big deal. Each to his or her own.

[Frosty]

Longer doesn't mean 3' long, doubling the billet length should be manageable, cable is going to bend, curve and generally be a PITA till you get the welds set anyway. That's sort of the basics this thread is discussing. 

How about making a helper that slips over the anvil to hold the cable extending past the step and hold it reasonably straight. OR make a V swage bottom tool that extends the full length of the anvil face. This kind of tool invention is a basic blacksmith skill, we make the tools.

Frosty The Lucky.