395743 Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 Hey guys, I acquired an anvil a while ago that is in very rough shape and I don't really know anything about it other than it is so worn that i can't use it the way it is. My main question is what kind of metal is it made of is it cast iron, or cast steel or something else? I have some ideas for repairing it but I don't know if i want to even bother trying to repair it if it is cast iron. I did a rebound test on it and it seemed to get about about 50 percent with a ball peen hammer but maybe i was doing it wrong. it doesn't sound exactly like several pieces of cast iron that I hit but it definitely sounds more like them than it does like my piece of mine track sledge hammer R.R. tie plates etc. I searched the anvil over and over but have not found a single marking on it. This is most definitely the worst anvil i have seen in my life and cannot imagine what someone must have done to it to get it in this bad of shape, unless it is cast iron and they were cold forging on it. Here are some pictures of it, note the tong holes in the sides they may be indicators of something. If anyone could identify what kind of metal it is made of I would be very much obliged. Thanks in advance. Oh yeah, it weighs about 100 pounds by the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
395743 Posted August 20, 2012 Author Share Posted August 20, 2012 It was obviously painted over fairly recently, rather sloppily I might add. The pritchel hole has also been welded over for some odd reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 First of all WHAT COUNTRY ARE YOU IN? If you are in the USA I'd say that looks like an old Vulcan by the shape of the horn. If so it's CI body with a very thin steel faceplate---the spark test will probably tell you all you need to know. If it is CI then fixing it is not really a good option---However an SCA armourer might want it as it has the swage built in and still has a hardy hole for tooling...at least for better than scrap price! And sorry to say I own several anvils in *worse* shape as I collect abused anvils for my wall of shame. If you want to sell that one contact me...(eg: the Peter Wright missing everything above the waist or the faceless hornless chopped up Vulcan,,,) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
395743 Posted August 21, 2012 Author Share Posted August 21, 2012 I live in Pennsylvannia and bought the anvil at a local flea market. So you think it might be a vulcan... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cvmikeray Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 Shoot - I'd bring that thing back to life and make a cone anvil/swage block out it after I got all that paint wheeled off !!! Looks old for sure. I agree with the Vulcan look to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unforgivun Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 Nothing a 4.5" grinder can't fix eh Mike? :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timothy Miller Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 That has to be the worst anvil I have ever seen. Forget it, its a door stop. I guess you could use it as a large swage. It looks to me like it is a cast anvil that has been beaten on long after the face plate came off. Perhaps it was target on a rifle range or sledge hammer practice for village idiot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
395743 Posted August 21, 2012 Author Share Posted August 21, 2012 I could make a swage type tool out of it and buy a real anvil... but if it is actually cast steel and not cast iron I would probably like to fix it, ill post my ideas on fixing it later, but bacicaly it is just fill in the empty space where the face should be and then put a railroad tie plate or two ontop for a new face. But if it is cast iron I probably should just turn it into a swage block... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matei campan Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 that would be a complement to a good anvil. or to a block, hornless style anvil. don't bother to repair it, it will cost more than a good one and it has features that miss on a good one. having "good" anvils, this also would be very useful for me if it were mine. and, obviously, someone did his work on it till it become what it is now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 Bet you a sizable amount the body is cast iron! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatfudd Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 Kinda looks like that old sway back horse the little rascals would ride. I'm with Thomas it looks a lot like cast iron. Better to not spend much money to repair it. Figure out some other use for it like a swage block or a stake holder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpmcginn75 Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 I dont know much (anything) in the way of anvils, but I do know that other than the sag on the face it is in about as good of shape as the one I am beating on now. Couldn't tell you anything about it as I found mine next to my wife's grandma's barn and there are no markings on it. Mine only weighs about 35 lbs according to the bathroom scale. Using it to get by until I can make enough money off of it to buy a "good" anvil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomhw Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Bet you a sizable amount the body is cast iron! I'll bet you a Brazilian it is not cast Iron. It does have the Vulcan profile but there are square handling holes in the body which suggest that it is a forged anvil. The thickened area beneath the heel, surrounding the exit holes of the hardy and pritchel, is not like a Vulcan, or a Fisher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 So Old timer, please run the spark test on the bottom and tell us what it says! (only ones I've seen with the enhanced area under the hardy were cast iron...but I don't think I need a Brazilian wax job...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
395743 Posted August 22, 2012 Author Share Posted August 22, 2012 How exactly would I go about doing a spark test? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Touch it on a grinder and observe the number shape color and "burstyness" of the spark stream; probably some nice sites showing results for different alloys if you search for spark testing and all welding manuals I have ever seen include it. Usually it helps to have some known examples to compare with; so a file, piece of cast iron, piece of mild steel, etc. Then see which one an unknown's spark stream most resembles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
395743 Posted August 23, 2012 Author Share Posted August 23, 2012 I just bought a brand spankin' new angle grinder yesterday with a few extra grinding wheels. That should be nice to do the test with. where can I get a piece of cast steel to compare my anvils sparks to? I have some scrap cast iron but I also need a piece of cast steel to compare (don't I?) my anvils sparks with. Thanks all you guys for your help. I greatly appreceate it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 No that's not a cast steel type anvil. Even so anvils like those made in Columbus OH would have a mild steel base casting and a higher carbon top section casting welded at the waist. Since what we are looking for is carbon content: cast iron 200+ points carbon, mild steel 20 points carbon and high carbon steel like a file appx 100 points carbon will pretty much dial it in. For a different type of anvil I'd suggest some real wrought iron as well; but it's trickier and it and cast iron are sometimes confused in the spark test. Note that a lot of stuff sold today as mild steel is really A-36 which can approach medium carbon steel in carbon content. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
395743 Posted August 24, 2012 Author Share Posted August 24, 2012 Alright I spent all afternoon familiarizing myself with my new grinder and with what the sparks from different metals look like, cast iron, high and low carbon steel etc. I have a piece of crappy metal which came off a tractor or something that looks cast. I ground it a little and to me it looked the same as all the steel, could it be cast steel? but that is a little off topic. Anyway I finaly ground a little on the bottom of the anvil and it looked very similar to the cast iron sink I ground earlier. So I figured it must be cast iron, but then I decided to grind a little on the tip of the horn. When I did, yellow sparks came off and they looked more like the steel I ground earlier rather than cast iron. So the only thing I can figure is that it must have a cast iron base and a cast steel upper. Is that possible? Are there anvils like that? All that I got from this was total confusion. Help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timothy Miller Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 That anvil is a cast iron steel faced anvil. It is a Vulcan brand you can tell this by the round cut out on the back foot on the middle. This was a low quality make of anvil to begin with. Some one at some point really disrespected it as well The horn and face were covered with steel most of that has come off at this point. Some one also welded the horn back on you can see by the thick weld at the base of the horn. Other than the occasional light bending operation this anvil is useless for what one would consider blacksmithing. That horn is likely to come loose if it is hammered upon with any force. Its a conversation piece or a tarp weight at best. If it were a car it would be a Yogo that someone ripped the motor out of and turned into a chicken coop. Now its rusted out and full of droppings and you want to put it back on the road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomhw Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 That anvil is a cast iron steel faced anvil. It is a Vulcan brand you can tell this by the round cut out on the back foot on the middle. This was a low quality make of anvil to begin with. Some one at some point really disrespected it as well The horn and face were covered with steel most of that has come off at this point. Some one also welded the horn back on you can see by the thick weld at the base of the horn. Other than the occasional light bending operation this anvil is useless for what one would consider blacksmithing. That horn is likely to come loose if it is hammered upon with any force. Its a conversation piece or a tarp weight at best. If it were a car it would be a Yogo that someone ripped the motor out of and turned into a chicken coop. Now its rusted out and full of droppings and you want to put it back on the road. Not a Vulcan. The waist-up part is like a Vulcan but the foot is not. This is most likely an ASO that has been repurposed. A better way than the spark test to test for cast iron vs high carbon steel is by poloshing the surface and then etching it to reveal its strucure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 Better How? More definitive, yes; but not cheaper or easier! I can run the spark test and have an answer before I could even make it to town to buy acid and polishing materials. If you are bleeding out what is better---the sterile designed for the purpose bandage in the med kit back home; or the dirty bandana you have on site in your pocket right now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timothy Miller Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 Not a Vulcan. The waist-up part is like a Vulcan but the foot is not. This is most likely an ASO that has been repurposed. A better way than the spark test to test for cast iron vs high carbon steel is by poloshing the surface and then etching it to reveal its strucure.He said there was remanats of steel on the face. So it cant be an ASO. There are 3 styles of vulcan anvils shown in the book "Anvils in America" It looks like the early one to me. A quick way to check for grey cast iron is to drill it. The drill swarf will look like small gritty bits of grey metal unlike unhardened steel that will make long curly chips. White cast iron wont drill neither will hardened steel. Cast iron chips will also leave a graphite residue on you fingertips if you rub them together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 and it doesn't need saying---but I'll do it anyway! Drill on the bottom of the anvil not the face... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
395743 Posted August 24, 2012 Author Share Posted August 24, 2012 But then how do i tell what the face/horn is made of? Does anyone know where i could find a picture of one of those early vulcan anvils you were talking about Tim? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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