Shop floors? Options for smith shop and wood shop

[FieryFurnace]

So folks, I'm wondering!

My blacksmith shop and my dad's wood-working shop is one building. The main shop area is a 20x60 building and we each have half. My dad has a full wood working shop and of course I make chocolate covered strawberries over on my side of the shop. ;)

Right now the entire floor is gravel. It is a pain to roll my torch cart around, impossible to move the welder, and dad's tools are stuck in place too.

I initially was planning on pouring concrete over the entire shop, and I do have the funds to do that. This is not an "I don't have the cash" thread.

I don't particularly care for working on concrete. I am noticably more tired when I work a full day on concrete. However, I need the smooth surface of concrete for the welder and torch. I am thinking about on my side of the shop, pouring concrete around the welding table and other portions of my shop and doing some sort of other flooring in the main forging work area. The question for me is, what do I use? I want whatever I use to be level with the concrete.
How about sand? Maybe a finer gravel? Maybe something else? I can't just use the gravel that is there because, I want the work area to be level with the concrete and also, we are laying plastic down between the current layer of gravel and whatever we use for flooring. The plastic is going to be a moisture barrier, which is sorely needed.
What are your suggestions?

OK now my dad's side of the shop has nothing to do with fire. It's all wood-working. We've talked about doing all concrete, or doing concrete slabs for each machine and something else in the areas between. Once again, what are the recomendations here? Wood floor? Sand? Finer Gravel?

Thanks for your input ahead of time!

[Neil Blythin]

When I build my shop later this summer, I plan on using tamped clay. I've been in two shops with a clay floors before, and found it an excellent surface. It can be made very smooth (even 'polished' to a degree), and is very comfortable to stand on for long periods.

I'm sure it has its drawbacks - but so do most surfaces.

Anyways, even though its not a common flooring option, it may be worth researching / considering... Just my 2 cents worth.

[divermike]

I have always worked on gravel floors, yes it is a pain to move stuff, but a pice of plywood takes care of that, the lack of calf fatigue and foot pain more than make up for the difficulty. My anvil stands weigh in about 250 lbs by themselves, so when I say I know what a pain it is, I'm not kidding. My tire hammer is 700 plus pounds on a 200 lb 3inch thick steel plate. Still I would not change it. Also sparks and slag etc, do not go as far when I drop, or cut off hot pieces.

[pkrankow]

Pavers are nice to work on, as is recycled brick.

I have had opportunity to work on pavers made from sawn board set like bricks, end grain up...while the "bricks" can be made cheaply, and from scrap or waste, it would be time consuming. The irregular floor is part of what makes it nice to stand on.

Phil

[r smith]

I would scrape off most of the gravel and replace it (or mix with) roadbase material and pack it with either a small asphalt roller or a vibraplate. I have that and it is hard enough that all but the smallest wheels roll well and soft enough to be comfortable. I will replace this work area with a larger shop in the near future and am considering stamped concrete for the floor surface. I think smooth is the cause of fatigue more than hardness- there was a good thread on wood floors a while back but I can not find it now.

[j.w.s.]

Most comfortable floor I've been on was in an old iron foundry outside of Pittsburgh. The inside was something like 250ft x 1320ft and the entire floor was 4x4x3 wood blocks on end. I couldn't imagine laying that floor but I worked in there for a few weeks rigging equipment and it was so much better than concrete. I've kept that idea in the back of my mind for a future shop improvement. I figure if they used it in a foundry with molten steel being slung around everywhere why couldn't I use it in a blacksmith shop? They kept large hoppers of sand around for any accidental fires, plus blocks could be lifted out and replaced. I don't know about you but I tend to keep my hot metal either in the forge or on the anvil - I can't work it worth a xxxx on the floor. :)

-J

[Fe-Wood]

I think it really boils down to what kind of time you want to spend laying the floor, what flexibility you want with regard to machinery movement and relocation and how clean you want to be able to keep it.

If money were not an issue- For your Dads side I would consider framing it and using 1 1/8" plywood decking. Your side is a bit more complicated. You want a floor that is hard enough to roll heavy equipment on yet soft enough to be comfortable on your feet. I have seen many shops that have the smithy on compacted gravel and/or dirt with the fab area on concrete. May of these shops have perfectly level steel rails imbedded in the concrete to use as grounding for welding. If I were looking at gravel, I would use what we call on the west coast Decomposed Granite. It is 1/4" minus gravel with the fines. There is a binder available that makes it hard. I used it on 1 garden path years ago and it breaks down over time. It might last longer in an indoor environment. Also look at rammed earth technology. There may be a good formula using locally available materials.

My shop- Is all concrete with rubber mats and good shoes...

[petere76]

Dave,

Try doing a section in crushed stone dust. Pack or otherwise compact the material for a smooth surface. It presents as hard and flat. It's easy on the legs, fire reistant and you can dig it up if you ever want to. One consideration is the geography in your area, if your buildings are prone to frost heaves as many are in the North you may want to go with an insulated and reinforced concrete slab. Good luck with your project.

Peter

[Jim Kehler]

My 39' x 39' shop has old boxcar flooring (hardwood 2 1/4" thick) in my 12' x 12' main work area, surrounded by concrete.

[matto]

My shop floor is concrete if I want a softer floor spot I lay down plywood. The museum floor that I am building is stamped concrete. There is a thread here that has pics of the floor and as we are standing walls today I will have new pics to post. The stamping will be a pretty Pennie or two. We got a great deal for the museum but for the size of your shop if you stain and stamp it it will probably cost About fifteen to twenty thousand depending on what stamp and if you stain it. As for the wood floors I to really like the butcher block floors that is the style of floor Phil was talking about. Most of the ones I have seen are four by four or six by six cut into six inch blocks then layed end grain up makes a great floor easy to maintain but would not work well where I live do to moisture and termites. Concrete whether poured and finished smooth or stamped is a one time deal. Most care is sweeping wonce in a while. I would go that route you can always make a soft spot to stand.

[HWHII]

Dave, my forge area in my shop is 1/4 minus crushed granite. I really like it. Just spread it evenly, tamp it, water it and it firms right up. I have no problem rolling cart or welders on it. It is hard yet easy to work on. I will rake and water it ever now and then. Mill scale just disapears into it. I agree with you about concrete around your welding area. I have the same too.

[FieryFurnace]

I'm liking the idea of the fine crushed gravel for the main forging area. Concrete elsewhere! This will allow me to get the torch and welder close enough to anything in the shop.
I also like the idea of the wooden blocks on end. The level of moisture in our shop though, would probably make that impracticle. The shop is was built at the bottom of a hill and gets a lot of drainage. I have done a rediculous ammount of grading and ditch digging to help fix the problem. I'm about half done with the grading. I'm thinking the plastic layer beneath whatever flooring we use, will help with moisture.

Thanks for the ideas!

[matto]

you can lay a small layer of concrete as a base for the wood block floor then use a light sand layer on top of the concrete for packing and keeping the blocks level

[ciladog]

Dave, the problem with using concrete pads in only parts of the shop is that things change over time. As your collection of equipment grows and you become more productive you will undoubtedly want to rearrange where things are located.

Consider putting down concrete in the entire shop except around your forging area where you do most of your standing all day. Then fill that area with packed sand.

[FieryFurnace]

Dave, the problem with using concrete pads in only parts of the shop is that things change over time. As your collection of equipment grows and you become more productive you will undoubtedly want to rearrange where things are located.

Consider putting down concrete in the entire shop except around your forging area where you do most of your standing all day. Then fill that area with packed sand.

Yeah that's pretty much what I'm thinking. The area between the forge, anvil, vise, and power hammers would be a softer material. I am wanting to rearange the shop a bit before I do this though. I know what you are talking about with the pads being in the wrong place when you rearange. My tire hamme pad is right where I want the forge. LOL

[Gayle Brooks]

our shop has half concrete where the layout tables are and dirt in the forge area. I hear ya about standing on concrete all day. We do have rubber mats that help alot. I always like the pavers and would changed it for the concrete if that was an option.

[Steve Sells]

I poured concrete, But for the sore foot problem, I use rubber mats to stand on, no more problem. they are an open mesh that allows things to fall through, adn lifting is easy for clean up each fall.

[Frosty]

I poured concrete and wear good boots or shoes. I have two go to pairs of boots for uncomfortable achy feet, legs, back, etc. My White's Logger Smoke Jumper lace up boots were custom fitted and are more comfortable than sneakers for most anything but they're spendy, last I checked about $350 for what I bought. They last a Looooong time though, my first pair is just turning 35 I think, I could call White's, I and my measurements are in their book. My other go to boots are Z Coils and they have springs in the heals for a soft tread no matter what you're on. These take some getting used to as your subconscious thinks the ground is moving till it adjusts. Z Coils are becoming the industry standard for folk who make a living on concrete and I think insurance is starting to cover them.

Heck, I just bought a new pair of sneakers with a Dr. Scholls gel sole and they're darned comfy . . . so far anyway. yeah, they're leather, I really don't care for hot slag, scale, cutoffs, etc. melting into my shoes. I'm just getting too old to dance like that. <grin>

Compacted crushed gravel works well so long as it is NOT washed gravel, it needs the fines to compact properly. Clay will work but can turn into a quagmire if the water rises under it. Flowing over it isn't so terrible but if ground water comes up, think quick sand but muddier. If the gravel you have in place now has good fines adding a LITTLE portland cement and compacting makes for a really durable surface. It's called Concrete stabilized soil and isn't nearly as unforgiving as a concrete floor. It is however plenty hard enough to roll tools, equipment, motor vehicles, land cargo jets on, etc.

Frosty The Lucky.

[ThomasPowers]

Frosty, your measurements of 35 years ago might not be the same as today!

[r smith]

If the shoe fits, wear it :P

[Frosty]

Frosty, your measurements of 35 years ago might not be the same as today!

I know, my feet are getting wider, lots wider.

They remeasure you if you want another pair. What they keep the measurements for is to have a baseline to compare to, I guess it gives them an idea what's going on in your feet over time. Then again, the old boots fit just fine once I get them warmed up a little.

Frosty The Lucky.

[FieryFurnace]

I'm continuing to mull over the info.

One question for now. Those of you who do use an alternate floor surface in the forge area, how do you fasten down you tools? Power hammer, anvil? I just put some four foot stake in my big anvil and that seemed to work ok. What do you all use?

[Frosty]

I keep my anvils loose so I can move them as needed, they don't walk enough to be a factor. The LG on the other hand would take a stroll every time I started it so I anchored it to a gozinta, it rocks a bit but stays put.

Frosty The Lucky.

[ThomasPowers]

Most of the alternative forms of flooring allow for easy removal of a section and excavation and seating of
a log for an anvil or casting a pad for a powerhammer---much easier than having to cut out a section of a concrete floor to allows a powerhammer pad to be cast!

When I'm happy with the placement I will bury several feet of stump for an anvil making it much more stable than currently it is sitting a top a concrete pad in the old section of the shop.

[nhblacksmith]

I think you are on the right track with your own ideas, poured concrete and a brick area combination. I've been forging full-time for 31 years and when I built my current 28 x 40 shop a little over twenty years ago I did exactly that and would do it again in a heartbeat. As you pointed out, concrete is hard on the legs but it is good, if not necessary, where you set up machinery like lathes, shapers, etc. The brick is much easier on the legs and feet, easy to pull up should you want to install new or move existing equipment, and it has the advantage of allowing water to drain when you need to cool iron for long twists in the vice. About the only disadvantage I see is that you should install a chunk of iron, say 12" x 12" or a bit larger into the brick somewhere so you can upset long pieces or on which to lay hot iron. It is dangerous to drop hot chunks of steel on either wood or concrete. If they are damp, the resulting steam may explode a chunk of floor. I have a 24" x 24" piece of steel 4" thick in the floor near one corner of the forging area.

To lay the floor, I filled the area to be bricked with sand to a depth that when the brick was laid on top it would be even with the concrete in the rest of the shop. Lay it as tightly together as possible and then simply pour some sand over the top and fill the small cracks with a push broom. Over the years, the forging scale will mix with sand as you sweep it clean. If you take the time to level the sand before you start laying the brick, the resulting floor will be nearly as smooth as concrete and even small wheels will roll over it easily.

My first shop had a dirt floor and it was horrible. It was difficult to locate small parts if you dropped them, impossible to keep clean and the dirtiest part of me after a day in the shop was my socks and ankles where the dirt and scale mix swirled around my feet with every step. I didn't have the option of concrete as that was a museum shop but I did convince them to let me lay dry brick. I believe the floor is still in use but now by a cooper instead of a blacksmith. Good luck with your project whichever way you decide to go.