Drewy Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 I've read on several post the term Fish Mouthing, is this the same as a Horse's Xxx which is what I refer to the when the outside of the forging moves quicker then the centre, Horse's Xxx is a term used by all Industrial blacksmiths I have worked with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Turley Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 It's the same. I've also heard "fish lips." Your post reminds me of my dad's expression, "Why are there more horse's xxxxx than there are horses?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marksnagel Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 Lips and mouth are more socially acceptable than xxx. Frank, your dads expression is great. I have several places where that can and will be used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maillemaker Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 Lips and mouth are more socially acceptable than xxx. Frank, your dads expression is great. I have several places where that can and will be used. Government would be a good place to start! <_< Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ornametalsmith Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 also heard it called "piping".... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drewy Posted May 11, 2012 Author Share Posted May 11, 2012 horse's xxx, cutting the tit of a piece of steel, using a hot set, and finally finishing it of with a barstard file, are all socially unexceptable words, but on any given day they can be used in an offical trade paper exam, as they are industry terms. Would love to here some others on IFI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry H Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 there are a lot of terms that are not "allowed " on IFI........ go figure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Nowak Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 While some of those terms are used on the shop floor, I would be loathe to use most of them in a report to a customer or my superiors as they do not help you communicate in a way that is percieved a professional. You certainly can get your point accross with them though. I would use the term "suck-in" to describe the condition in which the surface moves faster than the center, "in-gate" or "up-gate" to describe the projection left on the bottom of an ingot after it has solidified and "rag" to describe the bit of metal left after hot cutting. We don't use set type tools in heavy forging since that can be accomplished with the press dies. I am not aware of an alternate term for bastard file as I think that term designates a specific coarseness of cut to the file teeth and therefore I would have no problem using that one. People make assumptions about a person by the vocabularly they use. In my profession, as an engineer and represntitve of my company, I need to make sure that the impression I give to customers is as positive as possible, so my vocabulary needs to be chosen accordingly. I also have to be able to communicate with people who may not be familiar with the forging process, so again I have to use terms that they will understand, not just the shop slang that people who do the work every day for a living know. Patrick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drewy Posted May 12, 2012 Author Share Posted May 12, 2012 Patrick search the B******** word for that type of file. This is the best explaination I could find. I liked reading your post, explained point in a very profession manner. When used for a file the word b******** means irregular, in other words, a file that can neither be classified as a 'coarse file' or as a 'second cut file'. so why didn't our fore fathers call it an "irregular file"?? sounds much nicer than the latter. Industry is full of oddities, whether it be the slang they use or the processes that are involved in that trade. Blacksmithing is no exception, this is what makes it truely unique and different to other industries. regards Drewy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forgemaster Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 Drewy When posting on IFI it is well to remember something that a guy who comes to help in my shop once told me, "phil, americans look the same as us, but they're not" they don't get our slang, and they don't get our humour, they're generally nice guys but they have all kinds of hangups. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matto Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 Bastard is a type of file, if a file company can stamp it on a tool for all the world to see and it is the technical name of the file there should be no problem about using the proper name of a tool. it is kind of like crap it is a technical term defind by webster so can be used as a term for wast product. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 While some of those terms are used on the shop floor, I would be loathe to use most of them in a report to a customer or my superiors as they do not help you communicate in a way that is percieved a professional. Think of IForgeIron as the corporation's written report on the corporate letterhead for all to read. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Turley Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 There is a field of study called "technical writing." My ex-father in law taught short courses in technical writing to engineers and other tek-heads at McDonnel Douglas Aircraft. He found that even though the tek employees could write a presentation paper or study, it was often written in a convoluted style with the use of many indecipherable terms. This made it difficult for others to undestand, including those in the same industry. He developed a system titled "SVO," Subject Verb Object. He wanted the writers to use SVO sentences when possible. "I see the dog" is a simplification. He suggested not using dependent clauses. He suggested avoiding adverbs, such words usually ending in "ly." For example, what is highLY probable to you may not be highLY probable to me. He would have technical terms and shop vernacular, when used, explained with more clarity or in lay terms. The correct use of colons, semicolons, and commas was emphasized. "Make a rule; break a rule." Once a person had learned the guidelines, they could carefully circumvent them on occasion, always being aware of the readers' comprehension level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timothy Miller Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 I always referred to it as a shut. Only later did I hear the term fish lips. Precise terms are important If some one said fish mouth I would think you wanted a pipe cut so it fit up to the side of another pipe at 90 degrees. I am not a fan of slang terms in the shop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry H Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 I actually am at a disadvantage when it comes to slang terms or real terms for that matter, most of the smiths I've worked with didn't speak that fluent English Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forgemaster Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 A shut or better still a cold shut or gall, we termed, as when you managed to hit the edge of a shoulder you were forging up to and took a bit of a scollop from the edge of the corner and forged it down into the main part of the forging, it requires removal otherwise it will be classed as a defect in the finished article if it is not to be removed by machining after the forging is finished. I try to get my guys to always have an angle grinder close to hand so as to grind out any shuts and galls that may occur as they are working. The cracking up the end of a forging was normally called a pipe, where I served my time, however the guys that worked in Sydney were not as cultured as Newcastle guys and they used the term H,,,,,A,,,,, unfortunately it seems the equine term has stuck as far as Aussies are concerned. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drewy Posted May 14, 2012 Author Share Posted May 14, 2012 well I'm finally convinced and converted H.....A......are never to be mentioned again, from now on fish lips/mouths are the only terms used in this shop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calala Posted May 15, 2012 Share Posted May 15, 2012 well I'm finally convinced and converted H.....A......are never to be mentioned again, from now on fish lips/mouths are the only terms used in this shop. Craig whats wrong with "Head Ache" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 I actually am at a disadvantage when it comes to slang terms or real terms for that matter, most of the smiths I've worked with didn't speak that fluent English We understand Larry, New Yorkers just talk like that. <snicker> Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timothy Miller Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 I actually am at a disadvantage when it comes to slang terms or real terms for that matter, most of the smiths I've worked with didn't speak that fluent English I remember working on construction jobs in NYC I was the only native. There were Serbs, Croatians, an Albanian, Russians, Poles, Turks, Chinese and Mexicans, those were the only guys I got to know. The Albanian would mew like a cat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ten Hammers Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 In all honesty, I suppose it could be called jargon. There will be times at events when something is not quite right and someone may ask " just how will you fix that ? " " Massage it a bit" is normally my reply. Fish mouthing is a term I had not heard. Thank you for the continuing education. There will also be times when descriptive terms will not make some folks happy ( male threads/female threads is an example). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil H Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 Drewy, isn't the Australian spelling of the Horse's A... word "XXXX", rather than the North American "XXX" ? The old rubber tobacco pouches that snapped shut with a spiralling action (leaving you with a view much the same as that from the driving seat of a sulky) were known by the same name, but once again, I suppose that you chose the company in which you used it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry H Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 Well I'll tell you what i xxxxxxx think, its all xxxxxxxx, especially at this xxxxxxx xxxxxxxx , when I was a xxxxxxx helper, it was xxxx, every time I xxxxxxxx went to the xxxxxxx, forge, the master told me to go to the xxxxxxx and go xxxx a xxxx on my xxxxxxx. at the time it didn't seem so xxxxxxx funny. But now that i'm older and wiser I think both of them were bigger xxxxxxxx than I ever knew ! If any of you newbies get the xxxxxxx chance learn from a xxxxxxx master, do it, because many smiths are xxxxxxxxx, but there are a select few who are the xxxx, you have to do your xxxxxxx research to separate the two. If you xxxxxxx ever think that an xxxxxxx can't show you something, you need to step back and re-evaluate your situation. there has been many times my own xxxxxxxxxxx has gotten in the way of a unique learning experience. Now I xxxxxxx know my xxxx, and I still am on the lookout for new ideas and they aren't here any xxxxxxx more to "help " me. ( moderator...feel free to edit this post as you see fit ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 Larry I think you got it covered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drewy Posted May 18, 2012 Author Share Posted May 18, 2012 larry here in Australia we have a beer called XXXX (pronouced four X) they say we don't know how to spell beer and this is how we spell it. From all the x's in your above post I reckon you would really enjoy the flavour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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