I.R.B.I. Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 I had a real bad day in the smithy yesterday as shown. I thought the hammer didn't sound right so I shut down to check the die keys. Everything tight except for the sow block. I tightened as I always do. Pulled my work from the fire and with the next half dozen blows this was the result. I was so speachless I couldnt even curse which under the circumstance was a miracle. So I emailed Sid, drank a lot of rum and cried myself to sleep. I will post some pictures as the repair gets under way. I just hope it can be repaired successfully. Right now I feel like I have had a death in the family. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clinton Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 Pictures are real small. Talk to peacock he just did a repair like this, but he is a long way from Alaska. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 http://www.iforgeiron.com/topic/25751-new-dovetail-for-25-lg/ Here's one way, for what it is worth. I recall mention of locating, drilling and tapping several cap bolts as a repair for similar circumstances.http://www.iforgeiron.com/topic/12303-beaudry-sow-block-dovetail-repair/ Never done it myself. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macbruce Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 Phil has the right idea, I fixed a #8 Beaudry this way only I drilled the holes then machined pins that were +.002 -.003.....heat the anvil and chill the pin and it will drop in....When it cools it ain't never commin' out. I'd weld it first before using pins or bolts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peacock Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 I would need better pics before I could offer a fix. More important is what caused the thing to break off in the first place. From what I can see the break appears clean and new not an old crack just now coming apart. Do not panic do not grind or other wise mess with this broken part till you find out why it broke. I think an improper key my have caused the sow block to raise up off the floor of the dove tail then as you hammered it would drive the sow block down forcing the frame out and broke it off. this needs to be dealt with before any fix will work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason0012 Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 I once had a 25# that did that. I drilled the broken part, reassembled with a 3/4" dowel and two 5/8-11 cap screws. Then veed out the crack and filled it with Ni rod. lots of grinding and I had a die back in and the hammer running for a few years more. I replaced it with a 100# hammer but the repair held as far as I know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iron woodrow Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 you poor fellow. i cant offer my advice, but i can offer emotional support if you need it... :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 Seen a lot of hammers with that type of thing fixed on them; so you are not alone! Lots of hammering still left in that hammer My main suggestion is to find someone that specializes in such repairs and offer to make them a fireplace set in return for getting it done by an expert! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nonjic Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 ouch :( painfull. Cant be sure of why it happened, but ive seen a couple of other dovetails 'burst' like this when a cold pallet and key are fitted into a hot dovetail. I once saw the steel tup on a 3 ton drop hammer split up the middle due mainly to temperature differential ! A couple of meaty dowels (pinch fit) shrunk in through both parts with some dry ice (or liquid Ni), and a couple of meaty high tensile cap head screws couterbored into the broken off wing should pull all the irregular bits of the casting back into contact with each other and might give a satisfactory repair. Need better pics to offer solid advice though. If you get a decent depth on the tapped holes for the cap heads into the base of the anvil you can really torque them down if you moly the treads. You could then 'cross drill' into the heads of the screws and knock taper pins in to stop them backing out. In my experience 'welding' or braising etc will only even give a cosmetic repair in a high shock loaded piece of cast iron. edit, Fine threads are much less prone to 'backing out' than coarse ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macbruce Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 In lieu of finding an expert in your neck of the woods there is some good info here. The stress you need to worry about most is lateral, three beefy pins and a couple of smaller flat head/countersunk in between those to keep it down and red loctite to prevent looseining will do the job........ With the Beaudry I fixed I had the advantage of seeing the crack before it broke, after that the crack never grew at all........I can't tell from your pics but it don't look as though you have a sow block so the holes will need to be done with a mag drill set up on a specially built table or stand I reckon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 Virgil: That's more than a bummer! Is that the hammer you got from Whip? I sure wish I knew something helpful. I'll put out the word to the guys here, some have done lots to LGs and may be of help. Frosty The Lucky. (The guy who bought your old 50# LG) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHPerdue Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 Hi I.R.B.I. I just got rid of my LG 50# that I had to fix becase of the same thing a long time ago. what I did was dowl the piece back on and vee'ed the break and used a a good Ni cast rod and welded it back with many, many passes with out getting the anvil over 450 F It took a long time to get it done but need can be a great incentive. I then made a 4"X 3/8" ring that fit real tight around the top of the block, and heated it to red heat in the forge on a cold morning and beat it down past the break. It looked like a crown pushed down past the ears of a person or one of those ear warmer bands people wear these days. Then I welded the hell out of it bottom and top. It lasted 15 yrs before it broke again in another spot. Which I fixed again and then this year it broke again in a lower spot. I no longer have the hammer or any pictures of the fix. but I have to say that hammer was used hard for over 19 yrs of heavey work every day. The fix held up with out a hitch. Some times I think the castings of these old hammers was a little light. They where sold to famers to sharpen plows on and had to be light to ship back then. I think some had less than the best cast iron in them as well. This as a comon thing, Sid now has a bolt on sow block and dies I think. That would be the best way to fix it. Saw the dove tail off and machine the top for a bolt on sow block and use Sid's bolt on dies. If you have the coin for it? HH CH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peacock Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 No bolt on sow block at Little Giant I think you are thinking of the 2 piece dies put a base in the dove tail bolt a face to it. The above post with dowels and bolts are about as good as you can do. If you can machine the top flat and build a plate to raise the the amount you take off. If you can get the bolts and dowels 90 degrees to the break and not the top it will be much better. I drill 1/64 under then ream to size. Be carfull about too much interference fit on the dowels I split 1 wide open once when I froze pins and heated frame, pins .003 over when the frame cooled and pins warmed up it split like a piece of hickory fire wood. I now use pins the same size as the hole to .001 over. I do the holes in the broken part in the mill so I can get the angle I want. Then I super glue the borken part to the frame to transfer the holes. Pop it off and do the reaming and tapping. I also leave the counter bores a little shallow the dress the tops level so the sow block keeps them from backing out. Don't put too many holes in it as it will weaken the frame 2 bolts and 2 pins is plenty on a 50. Grade 8 bolts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Falcon 72 Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 No bolt on sow block at Little Giant I think you are thinking of the 2 piece dies put a base in the dove tail bolt a face to it. The above post with dowels and bolts are about as good as you can do. If you can machine the top flat and build a plate to raise the the amount you take off. If you can get the bolts and dowels 90 degrees to the break and not the top it will be much better. I drill 1/64 under then ream to size. Be carfull about too much interference fit on the dowels I split 1 wide open once when I froze pins and heated frame, pins .003 over when the frame cooled and pins warmed up it split like a piece of hickory fire wood. I now use pins the same size as the hole to .001 over. I do the holes in the broken part in the mill so I can get the angle I want. Then I super glue the borken part to the frame to transfer the holes. Pop it off and do the reaming and tapping. I also leave the counter bores a little shallow the dress the tops level so the sow block keeps them from backing out. Don't put too many holes in it as it will weaken the frame 2 bolts and 2 pins is plenty on a 50. Grade 8 bolts. Sid has one for the 25#. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peacock Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 He has a bolt on sow block? I stand corrected, sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peacock Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 I just got off the phone with Sid at Little Giant.There are NO bolt on sow blocks he has sow blocks for 25, 50, and 100 #, but they are standard sow blocks that must have the frame machined with a new dovw tail if ithe old one is broken off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Falcon 72 Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 He has a bolt on sow block? I stand corrected, sorry. I think I'm just going to stop posting. <_< I didn't see the bolt-on portion of peacock's statement. Duh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teenylittlemetalguy Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 Sending you good thoughts. I can only imagine the feeling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peacock Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 I think I'm just going to stop posting. <_< I didn't see the bolt-on portion of peacock's statement. Duh Hey don't feel like I,m stoppin on you. I just got some more hammers to rebuild and I really like to keep up on what might be out there that we are can use. Sid and I are good friends And we talk some I was ordering some parts and asked him, he said he may have not made it clear when he was talking about the 2 piece bolt on dies. Keep posting we all have missed things in these post. Not a problem unless it don't get cleared up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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