FieryFurnace Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 A while ago I did some crucifiction spikes for a guy! Well, I got another order for them! Last time I used RR spikes so I wouldn't have to forge the heads....cheating I know! This time I used 5/8" square bar and I made a header for the job. It took a couple of test runs but I finally got the hang of it. The spikes are to historical specs of about 6 inches give or take! The heads are hammered wth a large ball peen hammer (ball side) to give them the look of having been used several times. They are steel, not iron! Oh well....i'm not that historically correct! LOL The corners are sharp which is another historical spec. The spikes with the header and a 5/8" mild-steel drift that I made to make the header! (I have NO drifts!) The heads! Swinging the four-pound sledge! Actually I could taper, smooth, and mark the cut-off point on the hardy, all in one heat if I tapered on the treadle hammer. However, I was trying to get blog pics so I used the hand hammer! Just for fun! This is my "shop essentials" shelf located next to my forge. "Red flux," EZ-weld, water, and Planter's peanuts! Thoughts??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marksnagel Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 Good timing on the spikes Dave. They look great. Thanks for posting. Peanuts are a necessity in my house. Mark<>< Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferguson Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 I am going to ask a basic question, which is how the header works. Does it line up with your hardy hole? What keeps the spike from falling through? Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FieryFurnace Posted March 3, 2011 Author Share Posted March 3, 2011 I am going to ask a basic question, which is how the header works. Does it line up with your hardy hole? What keeps the spike from falling through? Richard That is a funny question to ask me because, until today, I have NEVER made a good nail. The number of nails I've tried to make does not excede the number of fingers I have.......that being the standard issue, ten! Anyway, here's how she goes! Punch/drift a hole the size of the stock you are heady. Actually I believe slightly undersized is ideal. When I made the drift for this one, I hit it VERY lightly on the sander so take it down below the original stock size. This is probably less than the 64th of an inch range. (I don't really even know if that did anything at all!) Anyway, punch/drift a hole the size of your stock or slightly smaller! The hole needs to be a tapered hole.....I.E. slightly larger on one side. The slightly larger side faces up! This prevents the header from scraping shavings off the metal and making a mess. Rotate the header as you use it to keep the head even! Hope that helps.....someone else might be able to give you a clearer explination, because what I wrote sounds about as clear as mud! I usually have that problem! I know the information, but I don't quite know how to convey it in a clear teaching fashion! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maillemaker Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 Correct me if I'm wrong. The hole in your header is smaller than the 5/8" square stock. To make the stock fit, you draw out the shank until you have an acceptable length. Now, when you place the spike in the header, the drawn out shank sticks out of the bottom, while the remainder of teh 5/8" stock can't fit through. Then you heat what will be the head of the shank, and slide the header onto the spike. You then shape the top of the spike with the shaft in the hardy, and the stock deforms to become the head of the spike. Essentially, you are making really big nails. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FieryFurnace Posted March 3, 2011 Author Share Posted March 3, 2011 P.S. The header is a handled tool and you do place it over the hardy while you are heading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FieryFurnace Posted March 3, 2011 Author Share Posted March 3, 2011 Correct me if I'm wrong. The hole in your header is smaller than the 5/8" square stock. To make the stock fit, you draw out the shank until you have an acceptable length. Now, when you place the spike in the header, the drawn out shank sticks out of the bottom, while the remainder of teh 5/8" stock can't fit through. Then you heat what will be the head of the shank, and slide the header onto the spike. You then shape the top of the spike with the shaft in the hardy, and the stock deforms to become the head of the spike. Essentially, you are making really big nails. Exactly! The header hole is VERY slighty smaller than 5/8ths! Yes! #1 Draw out the nail! #2 Stick it in the header and estimate the amount you need for the head. Make a mark, remove the header, cut it on the hardy NEARLY all of the way through. #3 Reheat, place the nail in the header, twist the parent stock from the nail, and then make the head! #4 If another heat is needed to complete the head, drive the nail back out, reheat, and head. If it doesn't come out of the header, quench, and then drive the nail out! #5 Reheat, and straighten everything up! Yes, they are just REALLY big nails! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maillemaker Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 Here's a picture of a header at work http://ruralblacksmith.blogspot.com/2009/04/hit-nail-on-head.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferguson Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 I really appreciate you guys clarifying this for me. The key, then, is a tapered nail in a tapered hole, and making the sizes line up such that a certain amount of the nail sticks out above the header, and that amount is what you hammer and make into the head. The header never goes into the fire, I suppose, just sits on the anvil. How thick is the header relative to the stock? Sounds like the sizing of the nail vs. the hole would be the critical part. Hammer too little, and you have too much sticking out, hammer too much, and you don't have enough sticking out to make a head. But maybe that goes back to the idea that the header hole is just a bit smaller than the stock, so the care goes into making the header more than the nail. I like the idea that one puts the spike into the hole, then marks the cut point, makes it all less critical. If the spike is too short, hammer it a bit more to make it longer, if the spike is too long, cut off the end on the hot cut and then hit the new end a bit to taper it. I have been doing quite a bit of drifting lately, so I understand the concept of tapered holes and a tapered spike. It is reversed in that in drifting, the hole (work) is hot and the drift is cold, while in heading, the header stays cold, and the spike or nail is hot. When the nail or spike cools down, I would imagine that it would be pretty easy to drive it out of the header, or maybe that is done hot. Thanks, Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fciron Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 Ferguson, as you speculate, the nail should come out of the header easily. As the nail shrinks it contracts, and as the header warms, it expands. The nails should fall out, a tap at most to encourage them. (Don't want to bend the end, then they become rivets and won't come out.) If you bend the nail you can have some trouble getting it out, so I recommend making your header large enough to go over the hardy hole. It can go over the pritchel hole, but that's so much smaller and increases the chances of an errant blow making a mess of things. I also find that more mass in a header makes it feel more solid under the hammer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
double_edge2 Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 you could make a upsetting type tool like for rivets..only for square, if thats what you wanted. rivet/nail wont get stuck as the tool comes apart to release. like this... sort of Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spears Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 And for those el-cheapo customers who only want to pay us with peanuts, the bench mark is set. None of that off brand generic stuff, we want Planters!! I haven't got around to making any nails yet, but after reading all of this, I got some ideas if I ever need to. Thanks folks! Spears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alec.S Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 In that video, does the rivet simply stay in place with the vise holding it ( because i would have thought that it would slip through with that force ) but i may be completely wrong... or is there something i am missing.Because with a header, there is something supporting it ie. the bulk of stock that will be the nail/rivet head, that one makes if they use a header alec p.s great stuff dave!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 In that video, does the rivet simply stay in place with the vise holding it ( because i would have thought that it would slip through with that force ) but i may be completely wrong... or is there something i am missing.Because with a header, there is something supporting it ie. the bulk of stock that will be the nail/rivet head, that one makes if they use a header alec p.s great stuff dave!! Yes, friction will hold it in place, if your vice grip is good enough, the key is not to try to hammer the head too hard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FieryFurnace Posted March 4, 2011 Author Share Posted March 4, 2011 Exactly my thoughts Spears! LOL Actually don't we just tell those customers to take a hike! "Double Edge" Thanks for posting that video. That's a neat tool, and while I suppose it is probably a basic beginner tool, I'd never seen or heard of anything like that! (Course that could be because I'm a basic beginner smith!) "Alec" Like Mr. John said, the vice should hold it in place. The tool actually has to be made a TINY hair smaller than the piece you are heading. I know the concept, but someone who has actually made the tool might be able to say how much bigger to make the hole. Also, once you hit the first blow or two it is set a bit so that it can't slide down at all. Thanks for the comments and added thoughts! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 I have made about 50 nails. About 10 of them looked like nails instead of hooks, only 7 were quite nice looking for my mantle, I needed and used 6. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanR Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 Firstly nice looking nails, but I hate to appear ignorant. Apart from the obvious name, what are crucifixion nails used for or is it just a name for large flat head nails? :huh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FieryFurnace Posted March 5, 2011 Author Share Posted March 5, 2011 Apart from Roman crucifiction, I suppose large nails like this could have been used in large construction of wooden forts and defenseable houses. However, for construction, a nail of this thickness would probably have been much longer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
double_edge2 Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 In that video, does the rivet simply stay in place with the vise holding it ( because i would have thought that it would slip through with that force ) but i may be completely wrong... or is there something i am missing.Because with a header, there is something supporting it ie. the bulk of stock that will be the nail/rivet head, that one makes if they use a header alec p.s great stuff dave!! yep even friction....the holes are drilled with card in place to allow for grip when finnished. hit as hard as you like. and sorry, ...nice nails dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanR Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 Thanks for the answer Dave, but I'm still a bit perplexed as to why someone would need such nails. From a Biblical perspective it seems a bit morbid and your client doesn't seem to be ordering enough for construction purposes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FieryFurnace Posted March 5, 2011 Author Share Posted March 5, 2011 Both of the clients that have ordered spikes have been pastors. The first one was doing an object lesson at some sort of Christian camp, and was planning on allowing the attenddees to drive the spikes into wood! (I have no idea how he got them out once they were driven in!) This client was wanting them, so far as I know, just for display! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger604 Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 edited by me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rokshasa Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 maybe he wants to crucify someone...did you do a backround check on this guy . those are real nice spikes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry H Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 this whole Crucifixion nail thing creeps me out,...why would somebody want to shock some poor kid with that ?....... come here kid,..hows it feel to nail this rubber hand to the board ? cool huh ? sumptins' not right 'bout dat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alec.S Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 Thanks for the replys guys! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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