Wooden shop floors, how thick etc etc?

[Glenn]

How thick were the old shop floors that were made from wood?
How was the foundation prepared?
What wood was used?
Was the end grain placed vertical or horizontal?
How was the wood preserved from decay, rot, and bugs?
How was the wood floor maintained, and how well did it wear?

[Bad Creek Blacksmith]

The old shop we work in at the fair grounds was built around 1864, the floor is about 2 1/2 to 3" thick and is white oak. White oak was used alot because it held up with out treating it and its all over the place. today its like concrete we do have cement boards laying around the forges and anvils. I don't know what the foundation was the building was moved and it has cement blocks now. The floor has held up great for its age the only thing that we had to do was rebuild one of the forges, found out there was no foundation.

[DanBrassaw]

I've spent some time in our local historical museums shop, and they have what appears to be 2 inch or so material for the floor. I have no idea of the foundation, wish I'd thought of asking! It's a stone building, I would assume the foundation is as well. Also assuming (we know what happens when we assume, right?) there's at least a crawl space, and I'm 99.99% sure there's no basement. Not sure what you mean by "prepared." I can't vouch for the historical accuracy of this building, though it's my understanding that it was a working blacksmith shop sometime in the 1800's. My friend works at the museum, and I never poked him for much info, since I don't spend more than a few hours a month there. 'Fraid I have no idea of the wood species.1 I can guarantee that the end grain is horizontal. The only time I've seen end grain on edge is for cutting blocks. Unless you're asking if it was quarter sawn or flat sawn, in which case I'm pretty sure this particular floor was flat sawn. I can't say for sure, but from what I know of shop spaces, cheap shop owner mentality, and wood in general, the wood was preserved by nothing other than keeping the roof from leaking. We don't have much more than carpenter ants up here, and even they're not much of a worry usually. Also not sure how (or if!) this floor was maintained, but it shows some obvious wear from daily use. Those are my speculations on a particular old northern NY shop. I'll be sure to ask my friend, he knows worlds more about it than I do.

[Ramsberg]

A lot of the old industrial shops(including smithing shops) used blocks of wood set in the ground with their end grain up. They were set just like a brick floor, but were cheaper and easier on the feet. They are said to be very fire resistant because only the top of the block is exposed.

I a video linked to on here recently. . . uhh about making a pintle, the Woodright video I believe. That smiths shop had a floor just like I described.

Caleb Ramsby

[Glenn]

As to the foundation, only as an example, was there a vapor barrier (tar paper or something) then a layer of gravel (for drainage) then the wood, Could this have been followed by sweeping sand into any gaps.

Should the wood be end grain up? Only for an example, say a 2 x 4 x 6 inch length laid so that the 2 x 4 end was up making the floor 6 inches thick, or end grain sideways making the floor appear to be 4 inch wide x 6 inch long boards laid side by side making the floor 2 inches thick (again only as an example, not a real floor).

Of course it should be swept once in a while. By maintenance was there some product applied to seal the wood on a semi-regular basis?

[JNewman]

I did some work in the local Westinghouse plant about 17 years ago while they were ripping out the wooden floor. If I recall correctly the blocks were about 2"x4"(full sized not 1.5"x3.5") probably about 5" long. In your example the floor would be 6" thick. The end grain is what you are seeing looking down on the floor. I don't remember seeing anything under the blocks. I don't think there was any preservative used as rot needs moisture to grow, however the blocks were soaked with a century of cutting oil. A roofed building at grade generally is dry under the floor so I don't think rot would be an issue. Termites are not a problem around here, they may be an issue where you are. I would prepare like you would for interlocking brick, compacted gravel with screenings on top. I don't think there was sand between the blocks.

[son_of_bluegrass]

From what I've read, it was common to put end grain up. There were a couple of reasons listed for this. For one the end grain tends to be more self-healing. That is to say if you drop something that would cut the wood, the end grain would not be as damaged as face grain with less likelyhood of splinters.
The end grain also tends to be easier to stand on for some reason. At least that is what I've read.

Ramsberg, yes, it was an episode of "The Woodwrights Shop". That episode was on PBS this last weekend.

From what I've read, maintenance was minimal. Some books talked of sealing with tar or oil (either something like linseed or petroleum based). Other books spoke of just sweeping as needed. Most of what I've read spoke of the wood blocks being 4 to 6 inches thick. And species often depended on what was available locally.

ron

[DanBrassaw]

That's really interesting about the end grain floors, I'd never heard of that. My father has a furniture shop, now I'm tempted to steal all his cutoffs and cover my concrete floor with end grain maple, oak, and cherry. :D

[bruce wilcock]

the shoeing floors in the big shoeing shops were made of wood blocks end grain set in coal tar pitch ,i have no idea what the wood was ,they were nice to work on and the horses didnt knock a dressed foot about after the shoe had been fitted whilst the other shoes were being made, the one drawback was at the time we wore clogs with irons on ,and if a heavy tired draft horse started to lean and try to push you through the floor ,the clag irons bit into the wood and you couldnt slide your feet to get out ,and needed some hands to shove the horse over ,hob nailed boots were even worse , but behind the anvil they were great ,a few stone slabs were set in around the hearth and the door ,those floors would cost s fortune to lay now ,if i was to start again ,it would be a wood block floor ,

[Joe C B]

Most all the old industrial plants around Detroit had end grain wood block floors. I know that Cadillac plant built in 1921 had these, I worked there for 31 years. These were 4 X 4 and about the same length (height) they were soft wood, cedar or white pine treated with creasote. They were set in hot pitch on a concrete base. Easy on the feet, slimy when soaked with 50 years of cutting oil. Two big problems ... 1. If you had a water leak that soaked the floor they swelled up into huge mounds often 2 to 3 feet high then collapsed into a jumble. 2 , in later years they were deemed to be an envirmental hazard because of the creasote and accumulated oils.

Joe B

[pkrankow]

A garage that used to be in the family had 4x6 sawn to about 4 inch lengths of an unknown wood, I guess hardwood, and these bricks were placed end grain up in a running bond. It was bedded in sand, and bathed in oil over the better part of 100 years. I remember leveling a portion because the drain collapsed. We used dirt then sand and it sat slightly proud for a couple years, but not a trip hazard.

The garage has since been torn down, and the land is no longer in the family.

Phil

[silkhopesmith]

How thick were the old shop floors that were made from wood?
How was the foundation prepared?
What wood was used?
Was the end grain placed vertical or horizontal?
How was the wood preserved from decay, rot, and bugs?
How was the wood floor maintained, and how well did it wear?

I put a wood block floor in my shop four years ago and its the best thing I did. When I decided to do mine there was a company that still manufactured creosote treated block. they were yellow pine, 4 x 8 by 4 inch thick, end grain up. I wanted to avoid treated material so I opted for Locust which is rot resistant. I found a mill sawing locust 4 x 4 posts and sawed them into 4" cubes myself. One advantage to me in choosing wood block is that no concrete is needed under the block. I put down 6 inches of sand and then laid them like a brick walk, end grain up. You could fill the spaces with sand, but I saved all the locust sawdust and used that. There is plenty of moisture coming up from below and there is no risk of the blocks burning, though they will char if you drop something hot on them. I didn't put in a moisture barrier, just the sand. I'm not sure how well other species of wood will hold up in the damp environment, but maybe with a barrier you could use others. My floor is about 20 inches above grade, so not too wet. The caution about water spills has occurred to me and I'm careful not to dump any. I did use dry-laid block and brick right under the forge, but have wood all around the anvil, and no problem.
I recommend the floor for several reasons: MUCH easier on your feet. I can stand on that floor for 12 hours or more and my legs/feet are still fine. Warm in the winter. quiet. it's not too hard to sweep. Easy to find dropped parts or tools, and softer than concrete on impact. I can dig up a section to install stump or other tool if necessary. If I can answer ore questions, let me know.
(by the way, it's my shop in the Woodwright episode)

[BIGGUNDOCTOR]

Mare Island Naval Shipyard had end grain block floors in the machine shop sections. During the auction I saw the floor in one room heaved up at least 3 feet, wish I could have gotten a picture of it.

It was end grain so that if you dropped a large milling cutter it would not chip the tool.

In the above room the floor was just concrete underneath. My Dad who worked at the yard for 20 years told me that they had a crew that would come around and add blocks in the summer when they contracted, and took blocks out in the winter when they expanded. When you are dealing with floors that are as big as those were, there was a lot of movement with a little humidity change.

[Glenn]

I put a wood block floor in my shop four years ago and its the best thing I did.

Thanks for the reply. I have access to a quantity of blocks and want to build a floor both to try it out and so it will last.

[Ramsberg]

Hey SilkHope,

That was a neat episode, I enjoyed watching it.

I have a question about laying out the sand and blocks.

Did you compact the sand prior to laying the blocks or just make it level?

DId you have to compact the blocks after they were layed or just let the treading upon it do the deed?

Caleb Ramsby

[Shadill]

Are there any pictures or videos showing this type of floor?

[silkhopesmith]

Did you compact the sand prior to laying the blocks or just make it level?
DId you have to compact the blocks after they were layed or just let the treading upon it do the deed?

Caleb,
It helps if the blocks are all the same thickness. I cut mine with a miter saw and fence, so all were within 1/16, usually less. Then all you have to do is level the sand and place them. I found that stretching a string along each course while laying was necessary, even with a level base. They will be a bit wobbly until you fill the spaces between them, though I worked on mine for several months before filling the cracks. It still took a few weeks after that for them to feel solid.
One of the reasons this floor is easier on your feet is that it isn't perfectly flat. I tried to make mine reasonably level but there are a few hills and valleys. It's only noticeable when you get right down on the floor to look, and the comfort is worth more than any notion that a level floor is critical. I don't use any tools or machinery that must have a perfectly level surface, especially the human one.

[Fosterob]

One of the reasons this floor is easier on your feet is that it isn't perfectly flat.

Can you say why an uneven floor is more comfortable to walk/stand on than a perfectly flat one? I would have thought it was the softness of the wood compared to concrete more than the flatness of it.
Rob

[jeremy k]

I was at a glass blowers studio, he had made his own floor by using paving bricks of different styles. He had made designs with them but at the same time, they were not totally flat across the top. He told me when I asked about it... that due to the slight uneveness that during working around the shop your feet get in slightly different possitions (flatness as you might say) so that in turns keeps your back moving. This has to do with the spinal movements in relationship to the feet movements. That's the best I can describe it from what he said, and I'm sure there is some validity to it. That was his reasoning - JK

[Fosterob]

Jeremy, That makes sense and would also apply to a dirt floor, which people also swear by.
Rob

[Swamptroll]

I worked in a shop that had wooded block floors for a number of years. The were end grain up and set in tar over concrete. When they replaced or need to be resurfaced due to build up of oil and other junk they had a machine they brought in that had fine teeth in some kind of rotating roller. This would take a thin layer of material of the surface without loading up like sandpaper would. This was a course finish with good traction. It was very easy to work on. The other thing we used to do was lay a double sheet of 3/4 plywood on the floor over the concrete in the work areas to make it easier on the back and feet.

[Jreed]

Yes does anyone have any pic's of these floors? I never ran across anything like this growing up out west. When laying the blocks I imagine that you lay them with the grain running at 90 degrees to the block next to it to limit expansion and contraction is this correct?

[Glenn]

Blocks are laid so that you walk on the end grain.

[silkhopesmith]

Can you say why an uneven floor is more comfortable to walk/stand on than a perfectly flat one? I would have thought it was the softness of the wood compared to concrete more than the flatness of it.
Rob

I'm guessing it's both the softness of the block and the uneven surface that make the wood block floor so superior in comfort.
I can feel the difference when I walk across mine. Like the difference between walking across smooth grass and smooth concrete. The lawn is not intentionally bumpy but has enough deviation to make your feet tilt one way or another with each step.
To me this is an interesting example of how modern uniform environments are presumably better for work but in fact turn out to have unexpected drawbacks. You would think a perfectly flat floor makes sense, but it's more tiring. Another aspect is light- the typical florescent lighting system is much worse than sunlight coming in a window. Horizontal light from a strong source is much better than shadowless uniformity from above (at least for making things). Maybe not so for reading at your desk.

[Jreed]

Blocks are laid so that you walk on the end grain.

Glenn I understand that it is end grain up. What I am trying to figure out is if you oppose the end grain from block to block the way you flip the end grain between boards when joining them together to make a wider board to limit warping. Or do you just run the end grain lined up?