Wooden shop floors, how thick etc etc?

[jeremy k]

They are not boards - roughly 4" square blocks 5-6" long - so you set them side by side with ends up. - JK

[Dragons lair]

Worked in an aircraft factory in the 70s. 4X4X6 sounds about right. End grain up. Shop floor about 20 football field size. Maintance crew would drill and screw a eye lag into a bad one. Pull it out with a cherry picker then hammer in a new one. Several hundred viberating machines on the floor and nothing felt. Half a dozen blade profilers and Bullard VTLs running 10 feet away and no vibration felt. In the pioneer days it was punchion
floors. 6" long logs set on the ground filled with sand. Made a lot of floors.
Ken.

[John McPherson]

JReed, Here are some pictures that happen to show the floor in Peter's shop.

If you look in the background, you will notice that he has cinder block pavers about 3' from the walls where moisture would be a bigger problem, and to set tools on. It does not seem to be a fire danger, even around the power hammer with all the scale.

[son_of_bluegrass]

Glenn I understand that it is end grain up. What I am trying to figure out is if you oppose the end grain from block to block the way you flip the end grain between boards when joining them together to make a wider board to limit warping. Or do you just run the end grain lined up?

I understand the question you're asking. However I don't know the answer.
If you look at the end grain, the growth rings form an arc. He wants to know if the arcs of the growth rings are arranged in a particular fashion or not.
Today a lot of 4X4's are cut from the center of a log which would put the pith in the block and make your question moot, if you cut the blocks from a 4X4. I don't know if it was always that way or not.

ron

[Jreed]

Ron thanks I have never had much use for 4X4's so didn't realize that they were center cut. That being the case as long as they are all cut centered on the heart then no it wouldn't much mater as the grain would all be rings.

John Thanks for the pictures that was most helpful. I noticed that some don't have a full circle of grain and in those they are laid so that the grain opposes that of the one next to it. When I finally retire and Uncle Sam isn't moving me around anymore I think this would make for a cool shop floor.

Thanks all

[philip in china]

Regarding oil soaking into the floor it is an excellent preservative but it takes a long time for enough to get on and into the blocks. It is also, of course, very slippery. If laying timbers below the actual floor surface one very good thing to use as a treatment is old used sump oil. It is free so can be used in large quantities. Just get your timbers and stand them in the oil with the grain running up and it will soak right through over time. Also brush it on the edges to increase penetration. Remember rot needs water. Water and oild don't mix. So oiled wood is dry wood.

[knots]

Setting pavers in a sand bed can be a bit of a pain. The main problem is that once the sand is in place and leveled you cannot walk on the sand bed without displacing the sand and spoiling your leveling work. Which of course you can repair, but at the expense of time. The pro's use a fine grade of crushed stone for the finish setting bed layer. They level the fine crushed stone ( Basically screened to max pea size with additional fines, No. 10 I think, ask your local supplier). Compact the crushed stone with a motorized flat plate compactor to form a dense flat surface ready to receive pavers. This surface is very dense and can be walked on during the paver installation. I have used this method to set brick, concrete and stone pavers however see no reason it wouldn't work equally well for wood block pavers.

If I understand - The intent is to use rough sawn timbers to cut the blocks from. If so, you cannot assume that the blocks will all be of uniform size since the dimensions of rough sawn timber are frequently less than consistent from timber to timber, and even within a single timber. The timbers can also be sawn out of square. Just be aware that slight variations of paver block dimensions can result in a cumulative error causing the floor pattern to be thrown out of alinement. This is not to say RS timbers should not be used, just to be prepared for some puzzle work, and block trimming. Sweeping sand into the spaces between the blocks will stabilize the pavers so rough joints should not be a problem unless visual perfection is desired.

[silkhopesmith]

Glenn I understand that it is end grain up. What I am trying to figure out is if you oppose the end grain from block to block the way you flip the end grain between boards when joining them together to make a wider board to limit warping. Or do you just run the end grain lined up?

If I may put in my thoughts again regarding several questions that have come up in this thread-
without trying to criticise, It seems to me you are overthinking this issue. I simply placed the blocks so the grain pattern was pleasing to my eye. I don't believe the actual grain orientation is important from block to block, since I am filling a large area. Also, after sawing up the posts I dried the blocks for several months so there would be less shrinkage after laying the block. After laying, the blocks probably swelled slightly as they took on ground moisture.

The point of all this is to end up with a wood block floor. As far as starting with rough sawn material goes- there is certainly some extra effort/inconvenience involved in using irregular block. I sorted the block so each row was similar size, but adjacent rows may not be. If kiln dried/sawn material is available it will be much easier to place tightly and quickly. In my case, using rough sawn material meant I could install a wood block floor for $3.00 per square foot instead of $6.00 (which is what it would have cost buying commercially made accurate block or more precisely sized posts).
The photos recently posted of my wood floor do show some cinder block used around the perimeter of the shop. This was done to reduce the amount of wood block needed. At 12 blocks/sq. foot it would have taken 6,000 blocks to do my entire floor. By using cinder block under benches, forge, steel rack area, etc, I was able to cut that in half without impacting the areas I walk on most.
Last, if I can provide any photos I'll be happy to. I have a few leftover block and can also take shots of other details if anyone would like to see more.

[Agita]

I am now making a shop out of an old tool shed, just have in fact had a yard of stone poured in to cover soft dirt. Anyone now advise against this? (Paving stones sound nice)

[ThomasPowers]

Do to helping out our kids when they had a rough spot, my shop extension's floor went from the planned concrete to free coarse sand/small gravel from the local arroyo. So far I am loving it! My feet don't hurt after a long day on it. Of course small items like to disappear. I can see that a regular raking with the garden rake will probably get put on the to do list. Makes it a whole lot easier to suddenly decide you want to bury a postvise post somewhere in the shop---or pour a powerhammer pad...

Of course where I am it's extremely dry---we qualify as desert, so no moisture problems. Can't remember ever having condensation on my tools out here!

[knots]

I am now making a shop out of an old tool shed, just have in fact had a yard of stone poured in to cover soft dirt. Anyone now advise against this? (Paving stones sound nice)

For pavers on grade ( on the ground ) for interior locations the recommended installation consists of :

A layer of graded crushed stone about 4" thick. The stone needs to be sieve graded to consist of moderately sized stones without fines and stone dust. This creates a open bedding which resists wicking moisture from the ground up to the bottom of the pavers.

A vapor barrier consisting of polyethylene sheet. Use the heaviest sheet that you can find. In some jurisdictions building codes have specific requirements for thickness. Generally 8 mil poly is Ok. This vapor barrier is laid directly over the drainage fill.

A layer/bed of sand or fine crushed stone for setting the paver. I have used as little as 1 1/2", 3" is recommended.

Pavers of your choice.

Your crushed stone is a good start. If it is not graded as drainage fill, that is OK just add to it. Avoid raising the floor above the level of any wood construction unless it is treated for ground contact. Good Luck

[Ferrous Beuler]

Apparently wood block can last for quite a while~

http://cchsnys.org/m...brick_6_07.html

And an old shop photo from the same area, then & now~

[tomhw]

Back in the 1970's I lived in Minneapolis. I rode my road bike everywhere. One week end I rode around in north Minneapolis in an old industrial area and wound up on a degenerating asphalt surface laid directly on a square, butt end, wood road. As I recall, the timbers were about 10 to 12 inches square butts (each member was the center of a log cut square) and were in better condition than the asphalt overlay. I memember seeing a stone curb or fence about 6- 8 inches wide and several feet long.

[Francis Trez Cole]

My shop is pavers got 2 dump trucks full (free) they were pulling them up at a gated community . Just stacked them up and I then had all the sand to spread out and fill in the gaps. Took three weekends to get it done. There is a video from the Woodwright shop with Peter Ross his shop floor is wood http://www.pbs.org/woodwrightsshop/video/3000/3013.html

[Marksnagel]

That video of Roy Underhill visiting the blacksmith shop was great! Thanks for posting.

Mark<><

[Chrispy]

I'm not that old but have never seen a wooden floor in a blacksmith shop. I can visualise the exposed ends on blocks of wood sticking up that I way in an old butcher shop amid the sawdust covering.I recall them being quite slippery. I imagine there would be a bit of a fire risk.

Did anyone see where that hot rivet went?

[Ferrous Beuler]

That video of Roy Underhill visiting the blacksmith shop was great! Thanks for posting.

Mark<><

To jump ahead right up to the part about the wooden block floor it starts at 16:48 in the video.


That really is a great video. I think it was linked to also in another thread here on IFI a while back. Francis, how about posting that link again on its own in a new thread just because it is a fine video on hinge making?

[Old N Rusty]

My building was built in the late sixties " nineteen sixties" as an egg packing plant the floor is evidence of a "CHEAT" .The building specs it calls for six inches of steel re-inforced concrete. what is there is only four inches, and I have never found ANY steel at all. The concrete was poured " wet " and self leveled to a flat level floor, It was trowelled to a very smooth finish , slightly slippy if wet. I love it because it is so level , a great help in fabricating, is to be sure the floor IS level. Knowing this I had to set my Powerhammer on a 4'x4' 1/2" steel plate to prevent its vibrations from busting the floor. If concrete is bad for the feet, I haven't noticed as my entire industrial career as a welder in them plants was always on concrete.

[ThomasPowers]

Well I sure notice the difference once I started working in the dirt floored section of my shop vs the concrete floor. Same shoes, same me, same tasks as the forge just got moved out to the "dirty shop". My feet are much happier at the end of the day! Of course with anything dealing with humans different strokes for different folks!