silkhopesmith

I have to strongly agree with Tim also. Every hand forged wrought iron vise I have examined (probably 300 vises in my lifetime) had steel jaws welded in. the only vises I have seen without steel jaws added are the relatively newer ones that are not wrought iron and not hand forged. these newer vises are drop forged or cast solid steel. Interestingly, I also own a drop forged vise with welded in steel jaws.

in order to establish a curriculum you should to identify which skills you want to teach (and test) and what level of skill you are aiming for. peter

in my opinion, the discussion so far has missed the most important point, and what I believe is at the heart of any "certification" program. That is- how stringently is the test piece(s) judged? to me it makes no sense to come up with a list of projects if there is no judging criteria: what dimensional tolerances are allowed, what tools are allowed, how much time is allowed? if you don't have these, you have no real assessment of skill. Even a simple item can be a good test if judged carefully. a cube for example. made to + or - 1/16 inch is a whole different test than +or- 0.001. if made with only files a whole different test than with a mill. peter

Sorry for the confusion, my earlier post I was referring only to Sam's photo of the Butterfield die stock as being for machine screws. I'm still digesting the linked thread posted by Bob S.

the "thread swedge" as mentioned is a threading die for making machine screw thread, not wood screws. Wood screws have unequal lands and grooves, with better quality examples having much wider grooves and very thin lands. This leaves most wood in the hole intact and more between each land. These split dies do about half their work by swaging and half by cutting. They do produce chips!

I doubt you will find any evidence for water cooled tuyers in th 1820's. Most mention of them is 50 years later. Before you decide to make one you might want to look at period sources.

I have two old Champion blower rheostats that I use daily on my coal forge. They probably were made in the 30's or 40's. Both have some sort of plaster or ceramic wash inside that was used to coat and insulate the windings. Some of it is flaking off and I'd like to renew it. Can anyone tell me what that material is and where to get more? Thanks!! Peter

nice idea. how did you come up with that method?

The die stock is a style that was commercially made, and commonly shows up in early 1800's tool catalogs. However, those taps were not originally made for that die stock, and are much newer. The one with the squared off head is typical of early 20th century tools, also commercially made. While there are left and right hand thread on axle ends, the taps and die you have are much too small for most axles. I would use caution if you plan to use these tools. When these were made, wrought iron was the material to be threaded and it is much softer than A-36. They are only carbon steel, and will not hold up well if used on modern mild steel. Good collector's find. treat them well.

I agree, forge welding is the traditional way to approach this. Normally, I would do that, but wondered if there might be another option. The finished piece will be a heavy drawknife with a blade 19 inches long. It's the extra length that makes me wonder about alternatives. Shorter welds are much simpler. If I had a big hammer, I'd consider welding two short thick pieces and then drawing them out to finished length, but don't.

I'm looking for recommendations for welding W-1 to mild steel. I'd like to forge the piece after welding the two together, and eventually heat treat.

I'd like to second Frank's approach. I think this vise is definitely worth preserving. I agree it likely dates to late 1700's or early 1800's. It's worth preserving for several reasons- it's in relatively good shape, other than the pitting. It's mostly all there, including the original pivot pin with key. it hasn't been abused by damage or bad repairs. Finally, it's not a very heavy vise meant for forging. Most of these small vises were made for bench work like filing, fitting, or use by non-blacksmiths such as silversmiths, clockmakers, etc. It's worth preserving rare old pieces for others to study. There are plenty of newer vises around to use. I'll even trade you a heavier one that's ready to go!

I'd be interested in pictures too. can you take one showing the underside of the jaw where the steel is welded on?

most old hardie tools were made by jump welding the stem to a thick block, avoiding the need to upset a big piece in the anvil. you still fit it to the anvil hot, but very little time in the hardie hole is needed and very little pounding. Its a lot easier to soften the face than harden it.

one thing you can do to make the forge welding easier- since you're drawing down the stem anyway, just leave the end of the stem large. Then it's easier to get to welding heat without burning, it's closer to the size of the main branch, and you can hit it harder during the weld without making it too thin. This is one case where less work equals better results.

I have made a few bolts like this and for a small amount like 10 or 12 usually do them freehand. It looks in the photo like the square shank of the bolt is tapered, which is common on many old bolts. If so, it is actually easier to make the bolt, as most of the shank will be loose in the header rather than having to be a tight fit. Also looks like its a toss-up whether to weld a collar on for the head or draw down from larger stock. For the short amount of round section needed I usually forge freehand, keeping a pair of calipers or a scrap with the right size hole on the forge for handy reference. The first one or two will be tricky, but the rest should go smoothly. If you don't think you'll use a tenon tool often, freehand is still an option. This may also help produce what the customer wants, which is a copy of the sample.

the tools look like good ones, but the smith looks like a beginner. At least at nails.

[ A friend of mine just dropped this off so I thought I'd post some pictures. I hope its not too late to add to this thread. All forge welded or riveted. you can see the tapered stock too. It's very clean up close and nicely formed letters.

I have used mild steel for many years without any problems. sometimes after 15 or 20 years they loosen a little, but easy to tighten them again. I like being able to make my own with soft material and simple tooling. You can make a mild steel header and just drill a hole for the size rivet you're making. I usually make 5/16 or 3/8 dia.

These look very nice. As many have said already, much better than my first few pairs! These tongs have very well made reins- thickest near the joint and tapering to the tips. This makes for very comfortable tongs and less tiring too. Nice work!

What kind of charcoal are you guys comparing the corn to?

I couldn't agree more. top tools that are used frequently occasionally need re-forging, so wedging the handle can be a wasted effort. As Frank says, they have much less sting if not wedged and are not as prone to split under a bad blow. If it doesn't have to be carefully fitted and wedged a good top tool handle can be made in about 6 minutes with a drawknife. I usually leave mine octagonal for easy grip and fast shaving. Crooked wood will do fine, saving the straighter pieces for your hammers.

I have never found any reason to avoid a square face hammer and have been using one full time for 43 years. However, you will need to grind/sand all the corners of the face to a smooth radius. I aim for approx 3/32 inch radius. You'll probably also need to adjust the overall crown of the face to suit your work. This is necessary with almost any hammer you buy, so it's not a bad idea to get the hang of it. You can do all of this with a small side grinder with grinding and sanding discs. No need for big equipment. I check my progress with a simple straight edge. I have looked at almost all the hammers on the market and have rarely seen one carefully ground. They are almost all uneven, and shaped for low liability and speed in manufacture. Better to have the skills to make what you want then wait for that jewel to come along.

The Mount Vernon shop has been reconstructed and in operation for a number of months. There are several UTube videos showing the interior and daily activity. Well worth a look. One thing which will be noticeable is the small number of tools. This is actually much more representative of a typical 18th century shop.

If you're going to make one, you might consider leaving the cross pein thicker than on the originals which would make it more useful for general forging. Not being a farrier, I'm not sure why the originals have such a sharp pein. Frank, can you offer any insight?