30cal_Fun Posted July 17, 2010 Posted July 17, 2010 Hi, Yesterday my eye fell on what I think is an old masonry chisel or jack hammer bit. It must be at least 30 years old. I has been here as long as I can remember. I have only been making blades for a couple of years, so it never came across me to see what kind of steel it is. Lately I have been learning a lot about scrap steel sources and when I saw this one again I thought about doing a spark test on it. Here are two videos I made of the spark test:Video1 Video 2 My videos are not very clear but to me it seems about 1% carbon. When I have the opportunity I want to try to make some blades out of this old chisel. I have been looking at other spark test videos but I find it hard to tell how much carbon it has. This guy has a good collection of spark test videos: C105-C75 One note about his videos: C45 is AISI 1045, C75 is AISI 1075, C105 has 1,05% carbon, C120 has 1,2% carbon etc, they're European designations for the common AISI steels. Does anyone happen to know what kind of steel was used for chisels/jack hammer bits like these? Or what the carbon content is? The chisel itself is almost 27 inch long, 1,6 inch wide and one inch thick. Here are a couple of pictures of it: Thanks for any help, Louis Quote
craig Posted July 17, 2010 Posted July 17, 2010 Not sure about the type of steel...but a big chisel like is nice for keeping your hand away from the heat. The first few that I made were much too short to use comfortably with hot steel. Quote
thecelticforge Posted July 17, 2010 Posted July 17, 2010 It looks to be part of an old rock bar or a tanker's bar. Quote
bigfootnampa Posted July 17, 2010 Posted July 17, 2010 I too think it is a pry bar NOT a chisel. The old pry bars seem pretty good material for chisels and punches though... usually better than 4140. I have made knives and wood chisels from them too and those usually serve well also. Try it! You'll probably like it! Quote
30cal_Fun Posted July 17, 2010 Author Posted July 17, 2010 Thanks for the replies guys, I appreciate it! Presuming it is an old pry bar/rock bar, what kind of steel do you think this is? BTW: what is a "tanker's bar"? Louis Quote
Mainely,Bob Posted July 17, 2010 Posted July 17, 2010 Thanks for the replies guys, I appreciate it! Presuming it is an old pry bar/rock bar, what kind of steel do you think this is? BTW: what is a "tanker's bar"? Louis A "Tanker`s bar" is any pry bar(usually long) used by a "tread head" to work on his "ride". B) Quote
Frosty Posted July 17, 2010 Posted July 17, 2010 A "Tanker`s bar" is any pry bar(usually long) used by a "tread head" to work on his "ride". So, do you have any links or are you just an old growser Bob? Just to get back on track. Don't tread on me. Words to live by eh? Frosty the Lucky. Quote
30cal_Fun Posted July 17, 2010 Author Posted July 17, 2010 A "Tanker`s bar" is any pry bar(usually long) used by a "tread head" to work on his "ride". Thanks for explanation, Just to get back on track. Don't tread on me. Words to live by eh? Well said Frosty. Quote
evfreek Posted July 18, 2010 Posted July 18, 2010 Not 1%. It looks more like about 50 points of carbon. Try a railroad clip and an old Nicholson file to zero in on the range. Quote
Mainely,Bob Posted July 18, 2010 Posted July 18, 2010 So, do you have any links or are you just an old growser Bob? Just to get back on track. Don't tread on me. Words to live by eh? Frosty the Lucky. Spent some time in mechanized infantry and armored cav(held a 19D MOS)but much prefered to be a goundpounder(11B).Feeding,washing and maintaining the beasts took too much time away from the really important phases of the job. Besides,any good infantryman knows how easy it can be to kill a tank(up close).They didn`t call them "iron coffins" for nothing. We were told the Bradley was developed in part to defend tanks in an urban environment.A main battle tank was considered a liability in a heavily built up area. As long as there were no bad guys in the immediate AO we didn`t turn down the chance to ride on our motorized friend`s toys. :) Quote
30cal_Fun Posted July 18, 2010 Author Posted July 18, 2010 Not 1%. It looks more like about 50 points of carbon. Try a railroad clip and an old Nicholson file to zero in on the range. Now that I think of it, I have C105 steel (1,05% carbon), I can use that as a base line. Quote
pkrankow Posted July 18, 2010 Posted July 18, 2010 Now that I think of it, I have C105 steel (1,05% carbon), I can use that as a base line. You may want to put together a "book" of samples of known carbon content and alloys for this purpose. Since you have been buying some of your stock new, it should be easy to cut off a sample and label. Phil Quote
30cal_Fun Posted July 19, 2010 Author Posted July 19, 2010 You may want to put together a "book" of samples of known carbon content and alloys for this purpose. Since you have been buying some of your stock new, it should be easy to cut off a sample and label. Phil That's a good idea, I already made a word document with suppliers; what steel they have, in what dimensions, for what price etc. But I can do the same thing with spark tests. Quote
ThomasPowers Posted July 19, 2010 Posted July 19, 2010 I find it's easier to have the actual samples to hand to test against an unknown than to have a "word document". Quote
Frank Turley Posted July 20, 2010 Posted July 20, 2010 Test an unknown to some knowns. You may be pressing too hard against the wheel. Use a very light touch, and you'll be able to see the shower and lines better. Quote
30cal_Fun Posted July 20, 2010 Author Posted July 20, 2010 I find it's easier to have the actual samples to hand to test against an unknown than to have a "word document". I think that's a great idea, but might be harder than it seems, you can't just get "a scrap piece" of steel like 1050, 1060, 1075 or 1095 here, I contacted dozens of suppliers, some have these steel, but I either have to buy 1 or 2 tons, or they don't have it at all, and the maximum dimensions they have it in is no more that 3mm thickness (0,12 inch), not good for sword forging. We don't have anything like Admirals steel or The steel baron here . C105 (roughly W1) we have plenty here though because it is a common tool steel. You may be pressing too hard against the wheel. Use a very light touch, and you'll be able to see the shower and lines better. Never thought of that, thanks for the tip. Quote
ThomasPowers Posted July 20, 2010 Posted July 20, 2010 You cant find an old file, piece of A-36, piece of automotive coil spring, etc? You are not going to get a spectographic analysis just looking at the sparks with your eyes and your test samples need not be extremely formal either. Now if you are friends with a knifemaker---especially a stock removal one you may be able to get cut-offs of different high carbon steels . You can also ammass your test kit over the span of years too. Don't let "perfection" get in the way of "good"! Quote
30cal_Fun Posted July 20, 2010 Author Posted July 20, 2010 You cant find an old file, piece of A-36, piece of automotive coil spring, etc? You are not going to get a spectographic analysis just looking at the sparks with your eyes and your test samples need not be extremely formal either. Now if you are friends with a knifemaker---especially a stock removal one you may be able to get cut-offs of different high carbon steels . You can also ammass your test kit over the span of years too. Don't let "perfection" get in the way of "good"! I have some old files, but I have no idea what they should be. Now that you mention it, I think I still have some car coil spring, should be 5160. I already tested some structural steel, which should be about 0,18% carbon, and the C105 I have, it was MUCH closer to the C105. I will try the car coil spring tomorrow. Quote
ThomasPowers Posted July 20, 2010 Posted July 20, 2010 old files are generally around 1% C, (100 points); except for the old black diamond files that were 1.2% New files have varied a bit; especially the cheap imports some of which have been good and others bad or "odd". Quote
30cal_Fun Posted July 21, 2010 Author Posted July 21, 2010 old files are generally around 1% C, (100 points); except for the old black diamond files that were 1.2% New files have varied a bit; especially the cheap imports some of which have been good and others bad or "odd". I think for the 1% top line of my spark test spectrum the C105 would be best since I know it has 1,05% carbon. I haven't gotten around to testing the car coil spring today, but I will tomorrow. One last question: I found some thick leaf springs from an old trailer, are these also likely 5160 steel? Quote
Wesley James St John Posted April 14, 2016 Posted April 14, 2016 https://books.google.com/books?id=4NFnaqCC6NgC&pg=PA971&lpg=PA971&dq=what+kind+of+steel+is+a+pinch+point+bar+made+from&source=bl&ots=v4Bf00-VgT&sig=aGs7lz-zkZqubf9D9U7GypgX4b8&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj0qY3i8ozMAhXC5CYKHSE7CSsQ6AEIODAE#v=onepage&q=what%20kind%20of%20steel%20is%20a%20pinch%20point%20bar%20made%20from&f=false so i found this snippet of info stating that pinch bars, which is what i believe most of us are referring to here, are made from 1070-1090 carbon steel. if this is right, i'm super stoked because i'll never pay retarded shipping rates for a monster chunk of steel again! Quote
ThomasPowers Posted April 14, 2016 Posted April 14, 2016 well the smith I knew that used to forge them used old truck axle and had been doing so for 60 years (Isaac Doss, NW Arkansas, USA) I guess if your pinch points say they meet *that* standard you're golden. If they are not marked then it's back to guessing again. What was the old saying---"Trust but Verify" Quote
Frosty Posted April 17, 2016 Posted April 17, 2016 On 4/14/2016 at 5:27 PM, ThomasPowers said: well the smith I knew that used to forge them used old truck axle and had been doing so for 60 years (Isaac Doss, NW Arkansas, USA) I guess if your pinch points say they meet *that* standard you're golden. If they are not marked then it's back to guessing again. What was the old saying---"Trust but Verify" Oh come ON Thomas he read it on the internet! Seriously look how long the link it! Okay, shot taken. Welcome aboard, glad to have you. If you'll put your general location in the header you might be surprised how many Iforge members live within visiting distance. About your info. From where does this snippet come? Anybody with an ISP can "state" anything but without provenance it's just so much keyboard clicking, gum flapping at the coffee shop. Frosty The Lucky. Quote
Michael Cochran Posted April 17, 2016 Posted April 17, 2016 On April 14, 2016 at 7:49 PM, Wesley James St John said: https://books.google.com/books?id=4NFnaqCC6NgC&pg=PA971&lpg=PA971&dq=what+kind+of+steel+is+a+pinch+point+bar+made+from&source=bl&ots=v4Bf00-VgT&sig=aGs7lz-zkZqubf9D9U7GypgX4b8&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj0qY3i8ozMAhXC5CYKHSE7CSsQ6AEIODAE#v=onepage&q=what%20kind%20of%20steel%20is%20a%20pinch%20point%20bar%20made%20from&f=false so i found this snippet of info stating that pinch bars, which is what i believe most of us are referring to here, are made from 1070-1090 carbon steel. if this is right, i'm super stoked because i'll never pay retarded shipping rates for a monster chunk of steel again! That book you reference doesn't actually say 1070-1090. It says 'tool steel between .7 and .9 carbon'. We can assume that's 1070-1090 but assumptions are always bad. The book in question (Standards and Specifications for Metals and Metal Products: Nationally Recognized Standards and Specifications for Ores, Metals, and Manufactures Except Machinery, Vehicles, and Electrical Supplies By George Addison Wardlaw) was published in 1933 so the information contained is more than a little outdated. Quote
Frosty Posted April 17, 2016 Posted April 17, 2016 Thanks Michael a reference we can read ourselves is a good thing. I hope I didn't come across too harsh. Frosty The Lucky. Quote
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