How did you make a buisness out of blacksmithing?

[Ratel10mm]

FoF, if you go to the BABA website, there's a page listing all the members who have stated their willingness to host apprentices or journeymen. May help a lot if you decide to go to the U.K.

[basher]

I went strait at it after college and given the time again I would have worked for other people and seen their tricks and kit and methods......and seen their mistakes!!
I recon I could have learned more in 2 or 3 years working for someone else than I did in my first 8 years .
buy a power hammer early on . I waited 2 years before getting one and still have shoulder problems from over doing it (15 years later) a power hammer will be the best 2000 (or 8000) dollars you ever spend .
don't be a blacksmith snob , there is good real smithing work out there but if you take the fabricating work along with the forge work you will survive much better.......
its a good life , If you are a good business man you can make as much as anybody else , most of us aren't though.

[gearhartironwerks]

This is a really good thread with life experiences that future smiths should take into consideration despite the current state of the economy. For those of us who come through these times, life, and work will get better. I am an optimist. I believe the key to success is to challenge yourself, and to pass that intensity for the the love of the craft on to your potential clients. Be playful in your work, take your business seriously, and above all, take classes and study the basics of art education,i.e. why things work and why they don't. The more foundation that one can bring to the table when dealing with a potential client, the greater the chances of success in closing the deal, and more importantly, doing it your way at your price. That's artistic freedom!

JE

[mike-hr]

I'm dear friends with John at Gearhart iron, spent several weeks on different occasions working at his shop when i got slow, and he was busy. Here's some viewpoints from inside the fence... I'm a farm boy, I got lots of common sense, been around machinery, chainsaws, and construction equipment since childhood. I took machine shop and welding in tech college, wanted to be an inventor. We had to take an aesthetics class at tech, all of us tech heads would rather clean out the cesspool than look at slides of why Rembrandt was important. I inadvertantly found forging somewhere along the line, and thought there was something important in this venue I needed to explore. I spent lots of time making scrap until I found my way aroud the forge fire, and began to produce some marketable product. My early stuff was all blocky, hard corners, and looked like something a farm kid would make. Be utilitarian, keep the cows inside the fence. I met John at a hammer-in, who's an art student turned iron guy. I'll be real honest here, an art guy can sell stuff to housewives lots easier than a farm guy. Art folks aren't burdened with the background that an unhappy bull, or a front-end loader slipping on the ice, can plumb uproot a four inch pipe buried 3 feet in the ground. Housewives can get snippy, but they can't move a four inch pipe. I slowly learned that homeowners like wispy, graceful stuff lots more than blocky, utilitarian product. I'm grateful for my tech background, I can fix most anything that comes in the shop, but in hindsite, I wish I would have paid more attention in that art class, and had taken more art classes when I had the opportunity. It's taken me 10 years of forging to finally convince myself to reduce the cross-section in my work, there's a low chance of range cow stampedes in most interior work.

[FieryFurnace]

WOW guys! WOW!

I haven't been on this thread in forever....though it was dead! I just read all this last night!

So I looked back and saw that I started this thread last May!
After several (what I would consider large,) custom jobs, and a year at the craft fairs, I am as determined as ever that this is what I want to do for a living.

Let me clarify there.
Metal working in general with the emphasis on the smithing part. I LOVE welding too!

I did four good craft shows this past year. (I did more than four shows but I did four good shows.) Just with those four I have seen a MARKED increase in custom work. I'm talking about anything big, but a couple jobs north of $500 ans several smaller jobs. Since I got my shop put in, I have had a somewhat steady supply of small work. Not a living, but an improvement!

I've got to read and reread all of this information to gain 100% from it, but I will try to reply to what needs replying too, and untl I get to that, thank you all so much for your advice, suggestions, and offers. If y'all keep giving me your $.02 I'm going to be a millionair 'for long! LOL

In reply to the most recent post:
I'm right along with you there. I'm a practicle-eye farm boy!

[FieryFurnace]

hey " maddog:"

I did not post here to get pats on the back and for everyone to say "it's all smooth sailing now that you know what you want to do!"
All that is great, BUT I posted here so that y'all could make me think! That's what your post did!
I want honest opinions, given in a straight-forward manner!
Thank you!

Some of the things posted here have been:
"You're nuts; find something else to do!" LOL JK

apprenticeship
journeyman
degree
welding certification
business smarts

Those are the highlights, I think!

I'm already looking at some tech. schools in the state, to see what they offer in the way of welding certification. Looks like Elizabethtown, 1 1/2 hours away, offers a good selection of welding certificaitons. I'll have to get a list of them and see what y'all recommend. They may have a satellite school in another town only thirty minutes away! That would be great!

I really like the idea of apprentice and maybe journeyman! I had an offer of apprenticeship from a very talented smith up north! We had talked back in October about maybe doing, as he put it, "several months apprenticeship" starting around the first of this year. We kept in touch, and in December I emailed him about logistics. I.E. how I would maintain myself seeing that I can't drive yet. I would need transportation to/from work, to buy food, etc. etc. He never emailed back, and so I suppose that perhaps he had not thought about the difficulties that I brought to light!
If he is a member on here and perhaps reading this.....Absolutely NO hard feelings at all! I understand that it would be quite an inconvenience! I was quite honored that you would offer me a position and I really appreciate it even though it did not work out!

I was sort of wondering if maybe I could take some business classes online! That would be ideal, and I could be working on that until I was able to get some things lined up to start on welding certification. I'll have to do more research on that! As of right now, I am reading up on how to set up a business, but I'm not sure how far the book goes into how to run a business. I am supposing it would be good to know how to run one before you start one! LOL

Also someone had mentioned being able to draw! I stink at trying to draw out projects in any dimension other than pancake flat! (Not a very tech term I know....I'll try to work on my professional voice as well! ) I enjoy drawing and would also like to expand my knowledge and ability in that direction! Once again, it would be great if I could cover that in online courses. If anyone has suggestions there, I am open.

Journeyman in Europe! That sounds pretty neat! I think an in depth apprenticeship would be in order first. If my understanding of "journeyman" is correct, those guys already have a pretty well rounded field of experience in forging! I think I would need to know quite a bit more than I know now! Now if I could just apprentice and then find some Scottish smiths that wanted a journeyman! LOL

And then we are left with a degree! Everyone seems to be pushing for degrees! Hmmm!
I've looked into that option! I was looking at Tenn. Tech.'s, Bachelor of Fine Arts Degree in blacksmithing! It's a five year program! It sounds really nice!
There is no way really to explain it on here, but I have looked into it and after much thought, I do not believe I will be pursuing that route!


That's all for now!

Thoughts???

[Larry H]

as far as drawing, read 'drawing with the right side of the brain" ,....welding.... practice vertical up,..and overhead on one inch plate with a 45 degree bevel . On getting a welding job to make ends meet....the welding paper doesn't get you a job, your welding does, but school rounds you out on different materials and techniques, I'm envious of your skills and drive at age 17, you can only go up from here,

[cavala]

You don't need school for welding certs. Go to an accredited place pay the money weld the coupon and you're a certified welder. More than likely any company you hire on with will make you take their own tests, they don't want a piece of paper they want you to weld. That's just my experience. To make any money welding you would have to travel and work a ton but you could easily make up to 80 to a 100 grand a year. I know because I'm sitting in a travel trailer in Louisiana while my wife and kids are in Tennessee.
Ive had my own shop for five years and made a ton of money but when things are slow it's nice to fall back on other skills. I was telling my wife it's nice to settle on a job that pays well.
You're really young you should be bank rolling some cash right now if you're not going to school.

[KYBOY]

Ive welded for over 20 years.Not full time the whole 20 years as I started corrections(private, then State then Federal) work about 11 years ago, but I still welded and welded for the prisons I worked in..Heres my exp, mostly confined to Kentucky(Its probably different elsewhere).The real moneys in pressure/pipe welding and more exotic forms of welding...Almost anyone can lay a bead with a MIG, MIG welders are a dime a dozen around here..Get into the other stuff, thats were the real moneys at..When I started to TIG and pipe weld, thats when I started to make money welding. I was offered two different supervisory jobs (one in Wva and one in Denver) in the bureau because my welding/fabrication background was so diverse..I turned them down because I was home and making just as much money where I was at..
Point is, diversify my friend. Diversify..When your in competition for a job you need to able to set yourself apart from the other 50 guys..

[Timothy Miller]

[And then we are left with a degree! Everyone seems to be pushing for degrees! Hmmm!
I've looked into that option! I was looking at Tenn. Tech.'s, Bachelor of Fine Arts Degree in blacksmithing! It's a five year program! It sounds really nice!
There is no way really to explain it on here, but I have looked into it and after much thought, I do not believe I will be pursuing that route!


That's all for now!

Thoughts???

[FieryFurnace]

I could think of a lot of things I'd rather do than weld 1 inch plate overhead! LOL

I talked to a guy today that is "bridge certified" in welding. He gave me a name and told me of a place a lot closer in where I could get certified. I'd like to cover it all; mig, tig, and stick! I used a tig welder once for about five minutes so that doesn't even count as experience. Never touched an arc welder! However, I'd like to learn it all!


Cavala,
you said
"Go to an accredited place pay the money weld the coupon and you're a certified welder."

weld the coupon? Is that like completing a weld list or something?

Southshore:
Nope not religious objections.
Quite frankly, I would not spend much time, other than in-class time, with other class mates. I'm able to learn and benefit from this forum because there are strict rules about inappropriate remarks and words, and I appreciate those rules greatly, but those rules would not apply with colledge students. I don't party and I don't listen to roudy music.....ever! I'd most likely have nothing in common, besides class, with my fellow students. That would be the only "religious objection," and honestly I wouldn't care about that at all. I'm not a huge social person anyway, so if everyone ignored me and I ignored everybody, I'd be content! LOL

There are several different views that I take on the degree subject! They would begin complex discussions here and I'm just not going to start that!
I don't think it is a bad thing at all, and occasionaly I still toy around with the idea. However, everytime I think about it and talk to people about it, it just does not fit in the goals that I have.

I'm not going to hold it against you if you dissagree, but I just don't think it's what I am supposed to do.

[cavala]

The coupon is your weld test wether it's two pieces of plate or pipe beveled, and welded in the flat vertical or overhead position. It's then ground smooth put in a vise or press and try to break it, or non destructive test X-rays and such. If you pass your certified if you fail practice more

[Freddie]

Reminds me of something Mark Aspery said about marketing one's work in one of his books. I can't remember his words, but the gist was, "good design poorly executed will outsell poor design well executed".

[Nathan Hall]

I agree with Zig, far easier to find apprentice programs in related fields, I went that route and became a Journeyman Tool-Maker, and am now working as a mill-wright. The knowledge I gained working as a tool-maker has been invaluable in my smithing. If you are having a hard time finding smithing specific classes, maybe look at taking some welding classes, everything you learn from a good welding program will be of great value to you.

[CTBlacksmith]

I would love to be a professional blacksmith but i know that it just isn't the best idea at the time with the given economy. But i also enjoy fine metalworking and silversmithing. So i decided to go to college and become a metal shop teacher. This way i will have the summers off to completely immerse myself in blacksmithing and when i work i will still be working with metal, just with finer projects. I love being in college because i get to take all different classes that will help me out in the future, like economics and business courses. I guess what i am trying to say is to not rule out college completely. You could always just be a part time student and take certain courses that interest you.

[Addison]

I am about to graduate from the Maine College of Art, and I applied for much the same reasons as you seem to be interested in. My opinion is that art schools will teach you design and concept very well. My design has improved tremendously over the past four years. They don't seem to have as heavy an emphasis on technique (though you will be expected to make work well), although the crafts majors (ceramics, wood, metalsmithing) will teach technique as well since it is key. However, the emphasis will most likely be on design. There are a few schools that offer blacksmithing, MECA sort of does in that they have some forges and anvils but no teacher or classes specifically for it. We do however have a class on traditional silversmithing/coppersmithing and other neat skills like raising, forming, finishing, etc. Massachusetts College of Art has the facilities and some classes on blacksmithing I believe (though MECA has 24/7 access to the studios as well as private studios for majors, neither of which are offered by Mass. Art I believe). The Appalachian Center for Craft sounds really good, I looked into it a bit though I haven't been there - I wish they offered an MFA program. At any rate, school is really great for getting feedback from a diverse group, which is extremely useful. Going in with an idea of what you want to do, and a skill set will be very very good - if you already have the basic skills for your work then you can really focus on improving your technique, design and thinking conceptually (a challenge but worthwhile). You will be pushed to explore and try new things, which can sometimes be frustrating but is also a good thing. Many art schools are based on the Bauhaus curriculum - your first two years are focused on the basics of 2D design, 3D design, art history, and a few studio electives, then you enter a specific major for your last two years. In summary, if you are considering it I would definitely recommend going to art school - good design can be harder to develop than technique, in my personal opinion (and not that both aren't valuable). Consider this - you get to the point where you can technically make anything, but what do you make?

Also, consider applying for scholarships/work study to places like Touchstone Center for Craft, Haystack Mountain School of Craft, and other places like that - very helpful.

Keep in mind that this is my perspective as a soon-to-be graduate without the benefit of hindsight or extensive experience in blacksmithing, so my opinion is subject to change or being wrong, haha.

Good luck!

[Jeff Bly]

I too am wanting to go pro. I am 44 years old. wish I had it all to do over and know then what I know now. My skills: 2 years college in Aviation Maintenance and earned an AAS degree. 9 months of tech school to get certified in stick, mig, and tig welding. these two schools are the only things that I look back on in life that were smart choices in my life. Hind sight "IS" 20/20 don't let anyone kid ya. It would behoove you to go to school now while you are both young and free to do so. School may sound like a drag or out of reach or not the right path??? Don't dilude yourself. I wish I had done it all way back when. Now I have a mortgage, 2 car payments, rent, a wife and no realistic time to pick up, leave, go to school and "live the dream". You seriously don't want to kick yourself in the butt later in life and remember that they "told you so". So now I find blacksmithing at age 42. Not the easiest of crafts, but my technical background helps considerably. I understand a lot of concepts easier because of it. So I have been regularly attending local smith meetings and trying to learn who is who in this craft, watch as many pro's demonstrate as possible and try my hand at them myself afterwards, and make as many connections as is possible. Don't waste your talent, enthusiasm, or your age. Learn now, work later. The money will come better if you do it in that order. I think the biggest problem with most humans is that we want it now, not later. Sorry for the ramble.

Jeff Bly

[JNewman]

I really like the idea of apprentice and maybe journeyman! I had an offer of apprenticeship from a very talented smith up north! We had talked back in October about maybe doing, as he put it, "several months apprenticeship" starting around the first of this year. We kept in touch, and in December I emailed him about logistics. I.E. how I would maintain myself seeing that I can't drive yet. I would need transportation to/from work, to buy food, etc. etc. He never emailed back, and so I suppose that perhaps he had not thought about the difficulties that I brought to light!
If he is a member on here and perhaps reading this.....Absolutely NO hard feelings at all! I understand that it would be quite an inconvenience! I was quite honored that you would offer me a position and I really appreciate it even though it did not work out!

Journeyman in Europe! That sounds pretty neat! I think an in depth apprenticeship would be in order first. If my understanding of "journeyman" is correct, those guys already have a pretty well rounded field of experience in forging! I think I would need to know quite a bit more than I know now! Now if I could just apprentice and then find some Scottish smiths that wanted a journeyman! LOL

I would guess that the reason you didn't hear back from him is HOW YOU GET TO WORK IS NOT HIS PROBLEM!!!! He offered you a great opportunity and you asked how are you going to take care of me while I am there. I would have stopped replying to. If you are serious about wanting an apprenticeship you will figure out how to solve problems like this.

I met a Swiss journeyman Blacksmith traveling though Canada and he worked at a friends shop for a couple of months. He was getting from town to town the old fashioned way, walking. He did get rides from people who recognized him as a Journeyman. The reason people with a european background recognized him as a journeyman was his outfit Traditional journeyman He wore a tophat and waistcoat with courderoy bellbottoms everywhere, as that was the journeyman blacksmith traditional outfit. I am not saying that is the only way to travel as a journeyman in Europe but there are quite a few doing it that way.

[HF1911]

Just go to college as suggested, use your spare time to become a really good smith and offer classes by spamming every forum you can find...lol

[Old N Rusty]

Man, I am so impressed with your determination and drive, and somehwat jealous for the fountain of endless good advice and well wishes you have here. The value of that is priceless! No such thing existed when I was forced into 'taking the plunge'. An endless series of lay-offs from pipe welding and traveling set me on the course before I was ready. We started the business underfunded and had the pleasure of disconnect notices arriving monthly. Somehow we survived by welding and fabricating junky jobs. Thank God for old broke down dump trucks! We are still in our building. My advice to you is get into a building trades union apprenticeship program - pipefitters, boilermakers or ironworkers. The welding background you have now will help you immensely. Avoid debt if at all possible - do not attempt to borrow money to start a business, it won't work - the amount you will need to fully kit out a shop is tremendous. I have seen some of your work - your talent is apparent to all and I hope the best for you.