When Jobs Go Bad.

[HWHII]

I went to install a railing job on Friday and boy did I xxxx it up. The concrete on the porch sloped 1 1/4 in 4ft. When I did the take off for it I noticed it but did not think it was that much. On average I see 1/2 in 4 ft. and thats what I assumed what it was. You all know what happens when you assume. So needless to say there is going to be some rework on this one. Lucky for me my clients were very understanding. I had made a couple of other mistakes on this job during the fab but caught them as I went.

My point on all of this is how many of you have had jobs were you start out and the mistakes or maybe just problems start to snowball then fight you all the way to the end and other jobs thats you have no problems. It is all most like a curse after the first mistake.

I would like to hear your stories. It might help to ease my pain and embaressment on this one. Thanks!

[Thomas Dean]

Sorry...cna't help ya...never had any problems... Well, Ok, maybe just one...
I made railings for an gazebo at a country wedding house, seats 240 inside! ANYHOO... The gazebo had 6ea 6"sq. posts and was to be set on a 15ft dia. hexagon. The carpenters missed it BAD!! by at least 6" and was nowhere near centered. I made the rails to fit a true hexagon(and they did very nicely I might add...in my shop!) Had to trim each end top and bottom for them to fit. The deck of the gazebo was an exotic wood- African Angel Heart- and with the extra work of triming the rails the carpenters ended up having to spend an extra day to sand the floors before putting the finish coat on. Turned out the guy had never layed out a hexagon of this size and couldn't figure how to made the steps to be the same on the front four 'flats' of the hex. (I had offered to do the layout for the hexagon deck at the beginning of the job...) The back of the gazebo overlooks the yard and woods, about 5 feet off the ground at the back. Took some extra work but the MAIN thing was the customer was extremely happy with my work. Oh yea, she had an outside wedding planned the next weekend I installed the rails, they finished carpentry work the morning before the wedding! The lady was bout to KILL 5 carpenters!! Man, I LOVE metal!!!

[youngdylan]

I guess over the years you develop a sixth sense with regard to potential cock ups. There's no short cut to years of building up an experience bank of making mistakes or seeing others do so. We all make mistakes but rarely do the bigs ones twice. Somehow we seem to make mistakes less and less as the years go by. That, and we learn to design flexibility into our work to take account of the oh so forseeable unforseeable site conditions. Things like third party contractors / architects etc making changes on site after you've built the work.

I'm big on things like building railings with with over lenth top and bottom rails that are trimmed to suit on site. I normallly build for a 10mm gap where hinge plates mount to posts for gates. This gap is normally filled with a nominal 10mm "shim" but it can be reduced down to zero if needs be or upto say 20mm. If you look closely at the lower gates in the link below you should see what I mean

http://www.verdigrismetals.co.uk/gates%20railings/stainless%20steel%20gates.htm

Re disasters, one of worse ones I made was in making the helical balustrades in the link below. They were meant to be 900mm high from the line through the tread noses. The job was to a very strict deadline and I was rushing. I normally measure from the 100mm mark on a ruler then take this off the final measurement. Somewhere, somehow in the measuring, cutting laying out etc I must have forgot to take off the 100mm. Needless to say, I made the balustrades 1000mm high. Because I was rushing I didn't notice until I'd taken them to site. ... I'd 2 days to get them back to workshop and "cut out" 100m and respray. This would have been difficult enough on flats panels with a design based on verticals, let alone helical panels with a curvilinear design. Kinda explains why the design doesn't flow quite as I'd intended. Didn't get much sleep over those 2 days. Customer never noticed but it still gives me the willies thinking about how much I stood to loose. I'll (hopefully) never make that mistake again.

http://www.verdigrismetals.co.uk/stairs%20balustrades/spiral%20staircase%20balustrade.htm

[Harley]

I did an interior railing job for a new construction. Brought the piece to the house to install and as it so happened the homeowner was there at the time. I placed the piece at the top of the stairwell while the homeowner watched from below. the rail was 1/2 in. too short width wise at the top and 1/4 in. too short at the bottom . The homeowner was not impressed at all. Embarrased , I brought thr railing out to my truck and told him I would return the next day with the railing finished right. Told him I needed to build a hydraulic rail streacher. I returned the next day and installed it with a perfect fit. He never once blinked an eye when I made the comment about the rail streacher.

[DennisG]

I did an interior railing job for a new construction. Brought the piece to the house to install and as it so happened the homeowner was there at the time. I placed the piece at the top of the stairwell while the homeowner watched from below. the rail was 1/2 in. too short width wise at the top and 1/4 in. too short at the bottom . The homeowner was not impressed at all. Embarrased , I brought thr railing out to my truck and told him I would return the next day with the railing finished right. Told him I needed to build a hydraulic rail streacher. I returned the next day and installed it with a perfect fit. He never once blinked an eye when I made the comment about the rail streacher.

I have one of those, but I also got it with the optional beam stretcher,keep them beside my sky hook. :rolleyes:

[forgemaster]

I really need to listen to that little voice in my head that says, "phil before you weld this,paint this, bend that there, punch that hole, cut that to lenght etc, you need to check these measurements, fit, straightness, etc. Do I? Not as much as I should. Slowly over the years I am listening to that voice better though.

Phil

[youngdylan]

It is surprising how often than voice gets you out of deep xxxx.

One good thing being my age in the UK is I am familiar with both metric and imperial so on a job I'll measure once in metric. Then go back over and remeasure in imperial. Back at the workshop, if they don't tally I know I've made a mistake eg measured 3012 mm wrote down 3120mm. On long distance jobs I'll also photo the tape measure as is used against the "measuree"

[HWooldridge]

The worst job I ever did was when I built this piece 2 inches too small in diameter. It was to be installed flush in a domed ceiling with an indirect rope light above to give backlight. Turns out I didn't measure exactly across the middle of the opening and built it too small. We put it up anyway and the contractor added some flexible molding to hide the mistake. Turned out OK and the home owner was happy but I have never gotten any more work from that particular home builder. Measure twice and all that jazz... :(

[jason0012]

My worst dissaster on a job was a basement railing. It was a job I was doing for a friend of my wife. We had just moved into a new house, and new shop. I wasn't sure I would be able to do the job at all at the time. On top of this I did the job at cost ( friend price ) All went ok, the upstairs and stair rail fit just fine. Then the basement.....
When I had originally measured the basement stairs had a pitch of 37 deg. When I showed up on site with the railing the carpenters had pulled a fast one ! 47 deg ! The builder had decided that the basement stairs could be shortened up a bit and failed to tell me ! I ended up cutting the whole rail apart ( all pickets ) cleaned rewelded primered and painted and getting it back in the house in 24 hours ( whew !)

[CTBlacksmith]

My worst job was my first one. A horse barn wanted large staples that you hammer into a tree and slide a board into to make a gate. The staples were to fit a rough sawn 1 by 8 board. The guy wanted eight of them and i told him 60 dollars. He wasn't happy with the price and started talking to me about the economics and supply and demand. He started pulling out all xxxx about when you order in bulk the price goes down and stuff like that. Then he told me he wanted 24 of them for 100 dollars and without thinking over it enough i accepted and he handed me the money. To save the guy and myself some money i gave him 3/4 of an inch of play for both dimensions and i tapered the spike as much as i could to save stock. After they were all done i brought them to him and he said they they weren't big enough for the boards he had. Then he gave me an original staple that he had to base the models after and he wanted 4 of the correct size. I went home and measured the original and they are even narrower than the ones i made. And i looked at the boards he had and they were smaller than a one by eight. So he lied to me and told me they didn't fit because he didn't like the finished product. I even went over dimensions with him before i started the project and he said that they would be fine. I think i just jumped the gun with accepting the job for 24 of them because it was my first job. The worst part of it is that my girlfriend has her horse at the barn and i see the guy all the time. I found out the other day that the guy is an actuary for a big insurance company.

[Dragons lair]

OK Iam not gonna add one of mine. Haven't been to one supplyer for a while. I noticed a new set of stair rails. When I asked the reply was. Custom order missed the note that the roofing was to be raised 2" Made the stairs too high. Remake but used the stairs to replace the old crappy wood ones to their office. Xxxx happens try to adjust.
They did.
Ken.

[ThomasPowers]

"Economies of Scale" often don't work for a single craftsperson as when a job gets big enough then costs may increase dramatically on it instead of going down. ie when you have to buy a specialized tool for that job or to hire help, either one of which might not be useful after that job is done.

I remember reading about this when someone was contracting with a potter where the price went down until the potter reached their total level of output and then jumped up above that to cover a second worker, wheel, kiln, etc.

I hate "production" work and so I will often raise the price for many copies of the same item---luckily this is a hobby!

[CTBlacksmith]

Your right ThomasPowers. I should have raised the price if i was going to make multiples of same item.But boy did my brain shut down when i heard 100 dollars. I never expected to make 100 dollars for my first forging commission. The job wasn't as bad as i thought it would have been when i accepted. I still made money on it but just not as much as i should have.

[Dragons lair]

Your right ThomasPowers. I should have raised the price if i was going to make multiples of same item.But boy did my brain shut down when i heard 100 dollars. I never expected to make 100 dollars for my first forging commission. The job wasn't as bad as i thought it would have been when i accepted. I still made money on it but just not as much as i should have.

As an OLD Conn yankee here is my 2 cents worth. Ya make one it costs X. ya make 10 and if
ya haven't larned to make them easier(cheaper) ya need to find other work. Most times ist
one is tougher than the 10th. So If ya made money on the first and anymore make more money
I don't see a problem.
Ken

[monstermetal]

Mmmm.... So many to choose from...

I have to say one of the ones that upset me the most was not really my fault.

I had a real difficult winder stair, 4 runs, that had wood posts and topcap... Really pretty. I was sweating the tight returns and matching the wood guys layout.. So I paid the wood guys $3000 to do cad drawings ( That was a huge chunk considering, about 10% of my part of the job) So I built my forged railing to the wood guys cad drawings.... Only to find out they where miles off from their own drawings... I had runs that where 6" off... So here I am in a 6 million dollar home cutting the railing up with a port a band and tig'in it back together, ramming them into the curb out front to change the pitch.... Thankfully the home owners never saw... They where super nice people. As a thank you they invited my wife and I over for dinner, a year after the job was completed... I managed to spill my dinner on there new $50,000 Persian rug....

[kevan]

Harold,

I feel your pain but trust me, you are not alone.

Probably the worst of the many I have had was the steel work in the gardens of Oprah Winfrey's exclusive school for girls in South Africa. We cut all the main posts for the walkway arbours about 400mm short and only realised it after they were planted in the ground. As luck would have it, the landscapers decided they wanted to raise the pathways and apologetically asked me if I could please lift the height of all the already planted steelwork by 500mm for which they were happy to pay premium rates. We pulled up all the posts, added 900mm, replaced them and everyone was happy.

The old addage, measure twice, cut once comes to mind.

Kevan

[JeremyP]

It wasn't a forged job, but just last summer I fabbed up a stand to transport BOPs (blow out preventer) on a flat deck truck.
Finished it up, sent it off to paint. When they went to slide the BOP into its place we realized the extended arms used to secure the BOP was reversed. I mixed up my lefts and rights. So I had to cut it all apart, and switch the arms around. Worked all night to get it finished for morning since they were hoping to use it the next day. Then I paid to get it repainted a few weeks later. I think they forgave me though as they kept calling me back. I'm still embarrased thinking about it :mellow:

[clinton]

Mmmm.... So many to choose from...

I have to say one of the ones that upset me the most was not really my fault.

I had a real difficult winder stair, 4 runs, that had wood posts and topcap... Really pretty. I was sweating the tight returns and matching the wood guys layout.. So I paid the wood guys $3000 to do cad drawings ( That was a huge chunk considering, about 10% of my part of the job) So I built my forged railing to the wood guys cad drawings.... Only to find out they where miles off from their own drawings... I had runs that where 6" off... So here I am in a 6 million dollar home cutting the railing up with a port a band and tig'in it back together, ramming them into the curb out front to change the pitch.... Thankfully the home owners never saw... They where super nice people. As a thank you they invited my wife and I over for dinner, a year after the job was completed... I managed to spill my dinner on there new $50,000 Persian rug....

was the "spilling" done before or after the eating?

[Richard Furrer]

The worst jobs are not the ones in which you alter the work, the worst jobs are the ones you under bid to begin with.
Nothing can go wrong in architectural work that can not be fixed (cut,weld,remake a portion, whatever), but once you are working for free or less than free its a different ballgame.

Ric

[Sam Thompson]

A couple of years ago I did the ironwork for a pub that was being totally rebuilt. Part of the job was to supply and fit bar rails in two rooms. I made the rails (1" sq) and brackets and carefully checked the structure of the bar itself and the floor, drilled pilot holes and bolted them down. In the smaller room I started to work on the identical counter, I drilled into the woodwork and as I pulled the bit out it was followed by a stream of high pressure beer, it shot about eight feet across the room. The site manager walked past and said "Bad luck, I noticed how professional you were checking the structure, don't worry, we'll sort it out."
A couple of days later I went onto the top storey of the scaffolding to put up the sign bracket. The morning sun shone down on the newly (white) painted wall, which I carefully checked was dry before I drilled into it, watching red brick dust mingle with the wet paint on the shaded areas beneath the scaffolding deck and turning the building a nice shade of pink. One of the painters looked out of a window and said "It's a good job we're putting another coat on that."
I made a fireplace for them, they wanted a quote so I gave them quite a large one, they were happy and I delivered the
work and sent in an invoice which they paid. It was about a year later that I realised I'd invoiced them twice and they'd paid twice; this wasn't the tenant but a large investment co that owned the building so I didn't feel too bad about it.
Some jobs are just doomed like that. :)

[kburd]

My worst job was my first one. A horse barn wanted large staples that you hammer into a tree and slide a board into to make a gate. The staples were to fit a rough sawn 1 by 8 board. The guy wanted eight of them and i told him 60 dollars. He wasn't happy with the price and started talking to me about the economics and supply and demand. He started pulling out all xxxx about when you order in bulk the price goes down and stuff like that. Then he told me he wanted 24 of them for 100 dollars and without thinking over it enough i accepted and he handed me the money. To save the guy and myself some money i gave him 3/4 of an inch of play for both dimensions and i tapered the spike as much as i could to save stock. After they were all done i brought them to him and he said they they weren't big enough for the boards he had. Then he gave me an original staple that he had to base the models after and he wanted 4 of the correct size. I went home and measured the original and they are even narrower than the ones i made. And i looked at the boards he had and they were smaller than a one by eight. So he lied to me and told me they didn't fit because he didn't like the finished product. I even went over dimensions with him before i started the project and he said that they would be fine. I think i just jumped the gun with accepting the job for 24 of them because it was my first job. The worst part of it is that my girlfriend has her horse at the barn and i see the guy all the time. I found out the other day that the guy is an actuary for a big insurance company.

always always always watch horse people.... very very close....

[arftist]

For outside railings I always coredrill. I do not use mounting plates unless I am forced to. For inside jobs I fit the plates to the posts onsite unless it is a balcony. I did one stair job in which I mounted the plates in the shop. It was a rush job, which was the builders fault. The railing was not in the contract, was an extra, and he didn't let me know he needed it until one week before the school was to open. He built little fake posts the exact dimension (including mounting plate). He placed the posts on the steps where they belonged, then traced them on a thin sheet of plywood. The rail fit like a champ and was built and installed in one week (unpainted). Because it was the builders mistake I didn't have to paint it.

[Braedon]

ya coulda used 4 of em ta 4 point staple him to the tree B)