Things I learned this week about blacksmithing

[Glenn]

We all learn something every day. What did you learn about blacksmithing this week?


For instance
How long should a 1/2 inch square tenon be when you use just one inch of length of a 1 inch square bar to form the tenon?

You would have to stack 2 pieces of 1/2 inch together to make 1/2 x 1 inch bar. You would have to stack 4 pieces of 1/2 inch square together to make a 1x1 inch square bar. Cut one inch from the end of the stack of 4 pieces of 1/2 inch square bar. Now put those pieces end to end and you will have a piece of metal 1/2 inch square that is now 4 inches long. So the answer is the 1/2 inch square tenon will forge out 4 times longer than the original length you marked on the piece of 1 inch square bar.

When you forge metal, you change the shape not the volume.


What did you learn about blacksmithing this week?

[pkrankow]

Construction adhesive and tightenable brackets make for a nice quiet anvil.
Phil

[John B]

You get the metal HOT and then you hit it

[Frank Turley]

Esoteric horse stuff. I am restoring my quite old Mexican bridle bit. It has jingles hanging from it (sometimes called jingle bobs). These jingles have a bent wire loop and a kind of bell shaped flattened portion below its connected wire. Overall, one is about 1 1/8" long. Some of the jingles are in tiers, meaning a hole can be drilled through the flat of one, so that the other can hook through. Well, I took one look and thought geez, get some baling wire and just flatten part of it. I tried with a sharp cross peen cold and hot, and I got hardly any width at all. Got nowhere, and the flattened part was getting way to thin. I wound up using soft steel bundling wire of 7/32" diameter. You guessed it. The originals that I was copying were forged of larger stock just as I figured, and the wire was hot forged along with the bell shape. I am able to do this in about 5 to 6 heats, but it kind of ate my lunch. I thought it was going to be so easy, and I thought I was so smart.

"A man with a mustache is never alone."

http://www.turleyforge.com Granddaddy of Blacksmith Schools

[Sukellos]

Never try to weld light metal such as tubing when you're sick. Had to grind off and do four of them over.

[Andrew Smith]

I learned how to forge weld. I have tried and tried to get a decent forge weld but yesterday I finally got a perfect forge weld. I made a tomahawk from a farrier rasp, just fold it over and forge weld the ends together. It hardened up really well in oil also. I really like the way it turned out.

Still learning something every day, and we will all probably never stop learning until we can no longer swing a hammer.


-Andrew

[Frosty]

What did I learn this week? Well, after being out of my shop for a few months I expected it to take a while to get back in the swing. I got my first check ride taken care of, a local blacksmith friend of mine came over and kept an eye on me while he had me do some forging including the power hammer. Deb doesn't like the idea of me using the power hammer unless someone is out there with me so I'm keeping to hand work for now.

On the upside a local gal has been E-mailing me for a while waiting till I'm up to going back into the shop to learn the craft and last Tuesday was our first session.

Okay, here's what I learned, I have quite a ways to go to get back where I was! I started the session off with my usual beginner's project, the leaf coathook. When I'm in any kind of shape I can forge one in about 10 mins while keeping up a patter for the student on occasion it's run to 15 mins if the student has a lot of questions. Then I usually pull up my comfy stool and kibitz while the student makes a coathook, typically about 3-4hrs. Well, not ONLY did it take me better than an hour I reversed up not only the finial scroll, I got the coat hook backwards too!

Well, I knew smithing took the ability to think a move or sixty ahead but it seems the brain injuries I sustained have inhibited my timing and anticipatory functions. It's not too bad, I can walk and talk and do most ordinary things with minimum variance. Variance being what actually happened is different than what you envision. I'm dealing with variance where smithing is concerned. So what I really learned this week is a few details about my injuries and a really good way to measure them. This is a GOOD thing, it's always easier to contend with a foe you can see.

Frosty the Lucky.

[pkrankow]

Today was a learning day! I had fun.

I learned last night that Mark Aspery has a bunch of videos on youtube, and they are very instructional.

I learned today:

Construction adhesive and tight brackets do not quiet the anvil as much as desired, and had to get the earplugs out. I may find a chain and wrap the waist.

I started to make some hardy tools starting with 1 1/2 4140, I am making a turning fork and a hot cut. I ran out of arm before finishing and after upsetting the shoulders.

Drawing out heavy stock by hand is difficult, and does not provide a long working window till it is too cool to move

Upsetting a shoulder in heavy stock can be upsetting, especially if the first hit with the sledge is not square on.

Remember to have a method of removing the heavy stock from your bolster plate. I used a piece of mild steel and drove it back through.

Fasten your bolster block down somehow so it doesn't go walk about with 3 inches of hot 1 1/2 inch 4140 in it. I used copper wire to limit its movement. I may drill matching holes to my pritchels (yes, 2) so it can be pinned in place.

I learned that a single Frosty T-burner in a 150 in^3 (or so) forge melts steel rather well and somewhat quickly too.

I learned what molten scale really looks like.

I started to make a hot chisel, slot punch, and a round punch, but only could finish the hot chisel and slot punch because I melted half the round punch away.

I need to turn down my forge if my wife calls. (I can't ignore her, she only calls from work when it is very important)

When the scale is molten and bubbly spring steel moves very nicely. When the scale is popping off, it moves rather OK, but when the scale is staying on it's time to reheat, even if it looks nice and bright glowing orange. (coil spring and 4140 both acted similar)

I learned I may need a lighter hammer, 3# is a bit too much after an hour of good work. Maybe I should get around to dressing the 2# hammer I bought.

Comments welcome
Phil

[Iron Falcon 72]

We all learn something every day. What did you learn about blacksmithing this week?


For instance
How long should a 1/2 inch square tenon be when you use just one inch of length of a 1 inch square bar to form the tenon?

You would have to stack 2 pieces of 1/2 inch together to make 1/2 x 1 inch bar. You would have to stack 4 pieces of 1/2 inch square together to make a 1x1 inch square bar. Cut one inch from the end of the stack of 4 pieces of 1/2 inch square bar. Now put those pieces end to end and you will have a piece of metal 1/2 inch square that is now 4 inches long. So the answer is the 1/2 inch square tenon will forge out 4 times longer than the original length you marked on the piece of 1 inch square bar.

When you forge metal, you change the shape not the volume.


What did you learn about blacksmithing this week?

Or the area of the end of a 1/2 inch square is .25 and the area of the end of a 1 inch square is 1. The ratio of .25 to 1 is 4 so every length of a 1 inch bar will make 4 lengths of a 1/2 inch bar. I think!

[forgemaster]

Hi guys

To Calculate the amount of stock needed for a forging, the formula is
Volume of the forging divided by the surface area of the end of the stock

Eg (and we'll use metric here)

12mm x 12mm x 100mm (1/2" x 1/2" x 4" roughly)= 14400 divided by 25mm x 25mm (625)(1" x 1")= 23.04mm + 3% heat wastage = 23.73 (1" roughly)
For converting round to square it is good to remember that a circle inscribed in a square takes up .785 of the area of the square.

Therefore how much 2" square bar is it going to take to make 4" of 2" round
answer is 4 x .78 = 3.12" of 2' sqr to make 4" of 2" round

[Frosty]

Today was a learning day! I had fun.

I learned last night that Mark Aspery has a bunch of videos on youtube, and they are very instructional.

I learned today:

Construction adhesive and tight brackets do not quiet the anvil as much as desired, and had to get the earplugs out. I may find a chain and wrap the waist.

I started to make some hardy tools starting with 1 1/2 4140, I am making a turning fork and a hot cut. I ran out of arm before finishing and after upsetting the shoulders.

Drawing out heavy stock by hand is difficult, and does not provide a long working window till it is too cool to move

Upsetting a shoulder in heavy stock can be upsetting, especially if the first hit with the sledge is not square on.

Remember to have a method of removing the heavy stock from your bolster plate. I used a piece of mild steel and drove it back through.

Fasten your bolster block down somehow so it doesn't go walk about with 3 inches of hot 1 1/2 inch 4140 in it. I used copper wire to limit its movement. I may drill matching holes to my pritchels (yes, 2) so it can be pinned in place.

I learned that a single Frosty T-burner in a 150 in^3 (or so) forge melts steel rather well and somewhat quickly too.

I learned what molten scale really looks like.

I started to make a hot chisel, slot punch, and a round punch, but only could finish the hot chisel and slot punch because I melted half the round punch away.

I need to turn down my forge if my wife calls. (I can't ignore her, she only calls from work when it is very important)

When the scale is molten and bubbly spring steel moves very nicely. When the scale is popping off, it moves rather OK, but when the scale is staying on it's time to reheat, even if it looks nice and bright glowing orange. (coil spring and 4140 both acted similar)

I learned I may need a lighter hammer, 3# is a bit too much after an hour of good work. Maybe I should get around to dressing the 2# hammer I bought.

Comments welcome
Phil

Glad the burner is working for you. If it's a 3/4" tube it's more than enough for a forge of twice that volume. . . OR you could just turn the gas psi down till it stops melting your work.

Frosty the Lucky.

[pkrankow]

Frosty,
It's a 3/4" burner, you helped me with a two burner forge before going Birch hunting. While the shape came out very handy it just would not put out the heat. When I started making tools it simply would not perform on the alloy steel. That forge was too hungry for fuel, so I ripped it apart and built this with the parts.


NakedAnvil is right, way more heat than necessary is not nearly as much a waste of fuel as not enough heat! (and I left out the idle circuit.)

Phil

[Lenaghan]

I learned that Borax really does ruin the inside of my forge lol :rolleyes:

[Frosty]

Frosty,
It's a 3/4" burner, you helped me with a two burner forge before going Birch hunting. While the shape came out very handy it just would not put out the heat. When I started making tools it simply would not perform on the alloy steel. That forge was too hungry for fuel, so I ripped it apart and built this with the parts.


NakedAnvil is right, way more heat than necessary is not nearly as much a waste of fuel as not enough heat! (and I left out the idle circuit.)

Phil

I remember now!

Grant's right, hotter is better and putting a burner in a volume half the size it CAN heat will save you fuel and time but it's just like anything else with LOTS of ponies under the hood, you gotta keep a closer eye on it.

More horsepower, bigger tires! Is a philosophy I grew up with and still hold dear to my heart.

Frosty the Lucky.

[Frosty]

I learned that Borax really does ruin the inside of my forge lol

Kaowool, fire brick, or?

If you check around with refractory dealers, I don't recommend ceramics supplies, they're usually WAY more expensive than a furnace or heating supply. Anyway, shop around for a high phosphate refractory, borax will have zero effect on it.

I prefer a rammable or plastic refractory so I can make a really dense face for the fire chamber, then I back it with a insulating castable refractory or Kaowool. The inner liner only needs to be in the 3/4"-1" range to do the job.

Frosty the Lucky.

[pkrankow]

More horsepower, bigger tires! Is a philosophy I grew up with and still hold dear to my heart.

Frosty the Lucky.

I have a Dad and brother who are like that. All I ever wanted was to get from here to there 1) safely 2) reliably 3) without breaking the bank

Funny thing is my brother wants my caviler when I replace it to replace his beater. He has had several hot rods and trucks though.

Phil

[Lenaghan]

Kaowool, fire brick, or?

If you check around with refractory dealers, I don't recommend ceramics supplies, they're usually WAY more expensive than a furnace or heating supply. Anyway, shop around for a high phosphate refractory, borax will have zero effect on it.

I prefer a rammable or plastic refractory so I can make a really dense face for the fire chamber, then I back it with a insulating castable refractory or Kaowool. The inner liner only needs to be in the 3/4"-1" range to do the job.

Frosty the Lucky.

I'm using Kaowool, but I went of and got a high alumina content refractory kiln furniture circle Im going to put at the bottom and have a layer of koawool under it. Not sure if it's going to work but I'm gonna give it a try.

Oh and my finger learned that when you sharpen things, they become sharper...

[Frosty]

High alumina is more flux resistant than silica based refractories so it'll do better. A healthy coat of ITC-100 will not only make the forge more efficient it's more flux resistant than high alumina.

Hmmmm, I think your finger is trying to tell you SOMETHING.

What my fingers, hands, (yeah, legs even) have managed to drum into me is. When you sharpen something it gets . . . Cuttier and pokier! Think of the scars as mother nature's Postit notes and little reminders.

Frosty the Lucky.

[glilley]

What did I learn this week? Well, after being out of my shop for a few months I expected it to take a while to get back in the swing. I got my first check ride taken care of, a local blacksmith friend of mine came over and kept an eye on me while he had me do some forging including the power hammer. Deb doesn't like the idea of me using the power hammer unless someone is out there with me so I'm keeping to hand work for now.

On the upside a local gal has been E-mailing me for a while waiting till I'm up to going back into the shop to learn the craft and last Tuesday was our first session.

Okay, here's what I learned, I have quite a ways to go to get back where I was! I started the session off with my usual beginner's project, the leaf coathook. When I'm in any kind of shape I can forge one in about 10 mins while keeping up a patter for the student on occasion it's run to 15 mins if the student has a lot of questions. Then I usually pull up my comfy stool and kibitz while the student makes a coathook, typically about 3-4hrs. Well, not ONLY did it take me better than an hour I reversed up not only the finial scroll, I got the coat hook backwards too!

Well, I knew smithing took the ability to think a move or sixty ahead but it seems the brain injuries I sustained have inhibited my timing and anticipatory functions. It's not too bad, I can walk and talk and do most ordinary things with minimum variance. Variance being what actually happened is different than what you envision. I'm dealing with variance where smithing is concerned. So what I really learned this week is a few details about my injuries and a really good way to measure them. This is a GOOD thing, it's always easier to contend with a foe you can see.

Frosty the Lucky.

Frosty - my wife is certified as an Athletic Trainer, Massage Therapist in addition to being certified in Cranialsacral therapy and other alternative treatment modalities. What she would say reading this is smithing is an EXCELLENT way to regain funtions and skills lost through TBI because the employment of hand/eye/body motions, including use of the brain to plan/control/anticipate the outcome will greatly aid repairing neural damage. The short version is that your brain will sense that you are trying to accomplish something through the use of your body and being the human animal that we are it will assume that what you are doing is essential to its survival and will begin to allocate resources to making you as efficient at the task as it possibly can, hence the neural repairing/rerouting to reestablish hand-eye coordinate and muscle memory. The key at the beginning with our skill set is to BE SAFE while starting back into it and you appear to understand that getting a local smith to overwatch. Smith as often as you safely can and it will start coming back. Oddly, I've been told, getting pissed-off from time-to-time seems to help.

[Frosty]

Cool, I don't know what a cranialsacral therapist is but seeing as I gave myself a compression fracture of the #1 cervical vertebra and a basal skull fracture, amongst other things, I could probably use her services.

I've been wanting to get back into the shop for quite a while, I've always thought the best way to get something or get it back is to DO IT. Not only has my smithing improved every single time I've lit the fire other aspects are improving as well. My therapists were almost giddy when I showed them my first little project and told them I had a student coming over.

Never before have I experienced something like this, it seems the more difficult a challenge I undertake, the more determined I become and the more I improve. I've gotta say I often feel like I could whip a bear in a slap fight. Maybe the "worry about what MIGHT go wrong" axon got sheared and I haven't bothered to heal THAT path. Good!

Frosty the Lucky.

[bigfootnampa]

"I've gotta say I often feel like I could whip a bear in a slap fight."

UUUummm Frosty DON"T trust your feelings right now!!! You are still a little OFF! You probably thought you were a pretty good match for a birch tree too... dinya??

[Frosty]

"I've gotta say I often feel like I could whip a bear in a slap fight."

UUUummm Frosty DON"T trust your feelings right now!!! You are still a little OFF! You probably thought you were a pretty good match for a birch tree too... dinya??

Good point about the birch tree, guess I should'a tried slapping it down. Eh? Oh heck, I've always been off though sometimes I could pretend to only be off a little bit.

No worries, I may still have a few marbles spinning but I'm not crazy. . . Well, not THAT crazy.

On the serious side, I DO have to mind my real condition when I start feeling confident. For instance, I'm now wearing my hard hat in the shop, I haven't turned the power hammer on and won't without someone else there as a backup, I don't drive yet and am actually wearing no slips on my shoes on icy days.

I guess you could say I am in recent touch with my mortality and don't want another meeting soon.
Frosty the Lucky.

[Clam River Coal Forge]

I am still wet behind the ears and have much to learn.
George

[Steve Shimanek]

I learned how to TIG weld mild steel; that aluminum is forgeable; that you should never put your hand on the foot pedal of an air hammer to steady yourself while working on the next machine over; how to make a wizard head handle; how to make Jim Poor style tongs; how to heat treat S7; the difference having a hammer that "hits" makes; and that having a world class teacher within 25 miles from my house is priceless. (Thanks Ted!)Now if weekends were only longer........

[Frosty]

I am still wet behind the ears and have much to learn.
George

Wear a wide brim hat?

Frosty the Lucky.