junker Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 i have forged out a cable-dagger with the help of my mentor, i still need to make the gaurd and pommel and im going to make the handle out of polished dear antler, what i am asking is what is the best acid to put on the knife to make the damascus pattern of the cable show? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted February 18, 2010 Share Posted February 18, 2010 Dilute Ferric Chloride is a favorite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junker Posted February 19, 2010 Author Share Posted February 19, 2010 would battery acid work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brucegodlesky Posted February 19, 2010 Share Posted February 19, 2010 It would work but not a real good idea. Safety and all. Try warm vinegar first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted February 19, 2010 Share Posted February 19, 2010 May I commend to your attention "The Complete Bladesmith, The Master Bladesmith, The Pattern Welded Blade" If you live in the USA you should be able to ILL them from your local library for free or a nominal sum, (it's US$1 per request out here in NM). They will cover this and many other questions to a much higher degree than asking on the net. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamj Posted February 19, 2010 Share Posted February 19, 2010 i started off using battery acid straight from auto store then finally our radio shack got ferric chloride much better when used 1:1 with water Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junker Posted February 19, 2010 Author Share Posted February 19, 2010 does it give a better etch or is it just safer? also could someone post pics of damascus etched with differint etching compounds? if we get enough pics in combonation with the conmpund that cause the etch maybe we can get this pinned as a sticky so the information will be right there in easy acces for every1 who wants to view it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamj Posted February 20, 2010 Share Posted February 20, 2010 the ferric chloride gives more difference to me i have etched a cable knife in both and the ferric looks the best Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junker Posted February 21, 2010 Author Share Posted February 21, 2010 i know this is probably a stupid question but wen making a normal (not cable) damascus blade, do you use the top of the billet as the side of the knife or the side of the billet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junker Posted February 22, 2010 Author Share Posted February 22, 2010 i don't think the hot vineger was a strong enough etchant, it just barely etched the knife at all, i can wipe it away with a rough cloth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDW Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 Hey Junker, I have been making knives from cable for years and I have tried everything to etch cable with. People used to tell me all you have to sand to is 600 hundred grit and you can etch it with diluted PCB etchant from radio shack. I am not saying this is not true but I am saying it will be an all day process. I have found that if you hand sand it to at least a 1000 grit finish then etch with Muriatic acid it will be a 15 to 30 minute process including the final finish to the blade. Muriatic is some bad stuff so don,t get it on you, stay upwind and have water, and water with baking soda available so you can neutralize the blade when finished. Cable is the same metal, rather than different colored metal on "real damascus", therefore it requires a deeper etch to see the decarb lines. This is how it was explained to me. I left a blade in solution a lot longer than I meant to one time but it was beautiful when I buffed it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 Junker, you used whatever orientation you want. Last blade I did I used the end of the billet as the side of the knife---course I flattened it down from the end to get a disk, (another pattern welded Pizza Cutter), sure shows you if your welds and alloy choices were good! Hot salt and vinegar works fine for my usual alloy choices, (band saw blade and pallet strapping). It doesn't leave any topography like more aggressive acids do but not every blade do you want such topography. Haven't tried it with cable though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fat pete Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 maybe a little off the point but related...I got a tip from Rich Hale saying to use windex ( the good stuff) to stop the etch...works way better than baking soda...way easier to work with, and the spray thing is a weird luxury...baking soda always ends up crystalizing and gets all funky... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamj Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 LDW the pcb etchant is ferric chloride and i did the same thing you did and forgot a cable knife in the acid was gonna leave it in for for 5-10 minutes and remembered about 40 minutes later beautiful etch and it was with pcb etchant diluted 50% with water Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 I use 45 minutes in dilute RS Etchant @ 1 pt to 3 pts water, but the Katana on my web site is 1 to 1 water Vinegar for about 7 or 7 hours, a slow etch is a nicer and smother etch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junker Posted February 23, 2010 Author Share Posted February 23, 2010 how long should i leave it in the muratic acid? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 Depends on: alloy, strength of the acid, temperature and how much topography you want. The basic answer is "long enough" so I would make a sample piece of the stuff you are using and then etch it checking it every 5 minutes or so till you get what *YOU* want and then go from there on your good piece. Note that the stronger the acid the more problems you can have getting good differentiation with stuff that doesn't differ much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Mayo Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 This hawk has a cable bit and was etched in 2 parts water and 1 part ferric cloride and left in for 10 mins. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junker Posted February 23, 2010 Author Share Posted February 23, 2010 should i use straight muratic acid or dilute it 1:1 or maybe 2:1 water to acid? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 You should experiment and see what works best for YOU! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 You should also go read a book like "The Pattern Welded Blade" and see what it suggests! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted February 25, 2010 Share Posted February 25, 2010 should i use straight muratic acid or dilute it 1:1 or maybe 2:1 water to acid? Your biggest problem, is what strength is the Muratic acid YOU are using to start with. That is another name for Hydrochloric acid in case you did not know. If you don't know the strength to start with, then dilution of this can be another crap shoot, one that could get your burned bad, or worse. Acids are not toys, If you don't know already, PLEASE get trained a bit in person with someone that does know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
don't tread on me Posted May 5, 2010 Share Posted May 5, 2010 What about sulfuric acid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin (the professor) Posted May 6, 2010 Share Posted May 6, 2010 Vinegar actually works, but it takes all night. I etched a lot in vinegar. I now use ferric chloride, diluted 3 or 4 to 1, but I buy it from a chemical supply. So, 3 to 1 would be better if you have the RS etchant. You really, really should get Dr. Jim Hrisoulas's books. You can order them from libraries, they are online, etc. I even have the old vhs videos that a friend traded me for a bowie knife I forged. I just watched a lecture by Don Fogg, and he said that he stopped using all of the powerful acids due to safety and environmental reasons and because the ferric works so much better and is not dangerous. I would rec' following these guys' lead. One thing to remember is to get ALL of the oil and dirt and fingerprints off. It is harder to do than you think (or it is for me because I forget and keep getting more xxxx on the knife when I try to clean it). good luck kc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodge Posted May 6, 2010 Share Posted May 6, 2010 As Thomas said, experiment. But I would start with large dilution factor rather than strong. (maybe wrong terms) But if you start with a strong solution and its too much, or too long, you can't un-etch. You can OTOH re-etch if its not the depth you're looking for. If you have to do it twice, try a little stronger solution on the next project. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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