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A standard anvil base?


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Hello, This is a ‘request for comments’ for an ‘open standard’ anvil base, please contribute your ideas and opinions.
What I had in mind was an affordable, well designed and easy to transport anvil. Today we have the ability to communicate with a large number of smiths and the vendors who wish to service them. I was thinking an ‘open standard’ anvil base would be a great benefit to many smiths and manufactures of smithing equipment. We should use this to develop an ‘open standard’ anvil base that vendors can depend on to receive their tooling with confidence. What I think should be required is an anvil base that can be built by modern machining or manufactured by a smith, as simple as a good burn out on a block of ‘cheap iron’ or scrap. Designed to accept reasonably easy to obtain pre-made or self built top tooling. This ‘open standard anvil base’ can provide a basis for well made tooling thereby making a good starting anvil available to a great many underfinanced smiths and potentially some wonderful tooling for everyone.
I feel like I’m preaching to the choir as I’m sure many others have voiced this idea before. I’m sure many people have some great ideas on how this ‘standard’ should be set up. Perhaps we should start by setting up the requirements and minimums so a manufacturer of equipment can expect their products to work with, or build and offer a ‘standard anvil base’ also. This I believe should be very minimal, we should not limit what or how a tool can be placed on the base nor how or what the base can be made of but only what minimums can be expected. I have an example of what I believe would make a good base, so I’ll start the ball rolling.

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This is 2 blocks they are 33” X 18” X 2” placed 2” apart. The gap provides space for hardy and pritchel holes and the ‘hold down’ space for wedges or bolt down dogs thru the square holes that are 3” X 3” and are 3” apart and 3” from the top and sides. That is the block, customizations like extra holes, threaded holes or whatever else is added or removed would be just that, a custom application on a standard anvil base.
OK now it’s your turn what are your ideas or improvements on this base, or do you have a design? Please submit it here let’s get this going. If we can reach a large enough consensus we should be able to get tool manufactures to take notice.
Robert Suter
Grapeland, TX

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So, the main face, the head, and heal, are all made with holes intended to line up with square holes in base slats? Some kind of rebate on the top parts, so you set them down on the slats and drive wedges in (say) to set it up. Drive the wedges out (with a drift) to disassemble it?

Only the top face/horn/heel need to be hardened.

How are the vertical slats (sides) positioned relative to each other?

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Hey Bryan. The tools I drew on top were just examples of what could be done, I tried to make it look like a Hofi anvil top (I hope he makes them, think how many people could afford one if it was just the top)but you can put anything on the base. The idea is to allow anyone to build tools and attach them the base in any fashion they chose. The wedges are one way to attach top tools, or you could bolt down the tool by placing a flat across the square holes and bolting through it. The sides, slabs whatever they are sit parallel to each other and are held by any means you can think of. The drawing is what I in vision as the top of the line version of the base. What I would like to see is some poor slob with some angle iron an scrounged up wood and filled with concrete getting started with a anvil top tools that will give him more than grieve. And yes only heat treating the working sacrifices would be a great advantage too and it would be easy to transport in pieces if you didn't weld the base parts together. I see allot of possibilities.

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I have worked on London pattern anvils for the past 15 years wile they have some minor limitations, but you can make just about any kind of hardie tool to over come those problems. Your design looks quite Involved I doubt that this would be cheep to manufacture. I think investing your time money in a power hammer would add to you capabilities much more than a very complicated anvil. Remember Machining is not blacksmithing welding is not blacksmithing only getting a peice of metal hot and working it is blacksmithing. In my opinion the hand and the mind are the most powerful tools in this craft. If one focuses on the fundamentals the dividends will be much greater. Things such as such as hammer control understanding tooling and how metal really moves under a hammer or in a die. This stuff is complicated and takes years to master. As a beginner I found these things very hard. In an effort to side step these problems I would try to reinvent the wheel spending often spending many wasted hours on something that ultimately didn't work. Understand and master the fundamentals they are a result of thousands of lifetimes of experience.

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While this is a fun exercise, Sarver may have been spot on. Just because a design works, doesn't mean it is marketable to enough people to make it worthwhile to manufacture and sell. A 10# stump anvil or a 3x4x10" block of any metal is a wonderful thing. Easier to find or create in more places and sufficient for most of the worlds metal crafting needs. The search for the universally appealing anvil is, and may remain, endless. My Dad told me that if I always carried a pocket knife and a handkerchief I could do almost anything ... he was right. Basic tools, even in the hands of an unskilled person, make all of us geniuses. Perhaps our universal anvil exists right here on IFI ... it's the shared mindset and knowledge that we see everyday. Endless opportunities to delve into the enthusiasm and knowhow of so many is part of the "teaching a man to fish thing ..."

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Well said Tim.People getting together and sharing knowledge is the most powerful tool available.

While I feel it`s great to think about things such as universal tools it`s been my experience that whenever I give in to the urge to buy one I am always disappointed.Maybe I expect too much or am just too cheap to buy the really good stuff.
What I have found is that people come to folks like us to either buy or have made tools of a very specialized nature.For me keeping a narrow focus (as opposed to a universal focus) has been what keeps the money coming in.
YMMV,of course.

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I have to chime in on the "This is an answer hunting for a question" side of things. I do not see how it could be cheaper than an improvised anvil to someone starting out and for a professional there is probably not much of a market.

On the whole smithing tools are not standardized much---folks can't even agree on the proper size of a hardy hole!---yet we seem to have survived.

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Hey how are you today southshoresmith? I’m not sure what your comments were aimed at, but I think you missed the point. What I’m thinking is the community to design and develop a base to hold forging ‘dollies’.
Large heavy anvils are wonderful tools, but only the lucky few of us who have money have them. There is a need for inexpensive quality anvil tops. Look beyond your comfortable world, there are many more who don’t live in it. Manufactures of anvils and tools only build tools for a market where there is profit, I want to make a market in the ‘rich’ world that will benefit even the poor. A modern blacksmith is little different than a smith 100 years ago, his tools are basically unchanged, in my opinion because many of the tools are elegant simplicity and because the loss of need. Due to the lack of need in the industrial world mostly what has survived is the artist and the poor. A successful artist is busy making pretty things for the rich and can afford any tool he wants. The poor smith makes do with what he can get. Tool makers will build and sell any tool the rich will buy, if it is available and affordable the poor get access to it. If we design a basic holder for smaller ‘inserts’ for anvil tools that the artist will want to use we will have successfully accomplished the goal. I promise if the tools are available the poor will find a way to use them by making do as always. What I’m trying to accomplish is a ’standard’ affordable base for anvil tops, swages, fuller hardies, whatever, with enough support in the community to get manufactures to make affordable products for them.
I don’t think two pieces of 2” iron with five square holes burnt through in each one with a torch is ‘complicated’ nor would it be expensive. I was inspired by Grants fabricated anvil and Bryan Brazeal’s style anvil. My goal is not to defend my design it’s not the point, I like it but it is an example.
I know this is not the usual way new tools are brought to light, perhaps this will work, help! Please don’t say that new ideas are unnecessary and everything in the world of blacksmithing is perfect as it is, it’s not. Let me turn this around, say you have a 500lb new anvil and your 9 year old just wants to hammer away, you could take off the swage block top off you holder put on the S7 flat and horn hand him a 1 pound riveting hammer and walk away smiling. Use your imagination there are a thousand possibilities let’s find them!

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I'm 100% behind Red Green here. WE'RE JUST EXPLORING NEW IDEAS! Iforge can afford the bandwidth, so contribute or don't, but it sure doesn't hurt to talk. The discussion is meant to simplify it, not to make a "complicated tool".

The concept is simply standard manufactured tools that will fit in a holder that is relatively easy for anyone, anywhere to make locally. I think the idea is worth exploring. It's not meant so much as a universal anvil as just a heavy base for tools.

A small base could be made that might only hold one tool, as long as it had the standard slot. Even a round hole could be used with a wedge.

Contribute or follow the thread (or don't), but negative comments don't really add much.

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If I were thinking about an anvil or base that could be used by the low dollar smith(that would be me) or folks in a 3rd world country then I`d stay with round holes and square edges.
Most folks have access to drills and can either cut a reasonably straight line or at least grind to one.Wedges are good for holding as they meet the straight line,loose tolerance approach used by most back woods smiths(me again).
Things like square holes and close tolerance dovetails or angle cuts are not something that would be useful IMO.If you need machine tools to make the base then you will probably need machine tools to make the follow on tooling(just Like Grant`s beautiful example.One I would love to have but can`t afford).
If you need to have all or part of this project made in an industrial setting then why not just give out old anvils to the poor?
I think both Grant`s high dollar tool and Redgreen`s ideas are great for the bucks up crowd.If you want to design a poor man`s anvil then start by being able to make it with only poor man`s tools.

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First I am not saying that every thing in the world of blacksmithing is perfect. What I am trying to say that learning how the traditional tools work then go from there. You will find that it is hard to improve upon what has allready been done. hell its even hard to match what has been done in the past. It is my opinion that most "new" in blacksmithing are slight refinements of older tools. More often than not they are cheeped out versions of older tools. Dont you think if there were a better, cheaper way industry would have figured it out 50 to 100 years ago and exploited it to make a profit? The only thing that has improved is the steel used.

Tooling needs to be robust direct and simple. The hardie hole is about as simple as you can get or a vise can be used to hold tools as well. vises work well and are cheep and plentiful. I have never used a dollie in forge work dollies are hand held tools used by auto body workers to smooth out sheet metal work. I think you are referring to bottom tools and bicks? I work on a #326 hay Budden I bought a few years ago for 500 bucks well worth the money. I feel that a 500 lib anvil is bigger than I would ever need. I am not working with three strikes wielding 20 lb sledges I never see that happening in a modern shop. If i were teaching a child to smith I would give them a hammer that was tempered softer than the anvil that they were working on so it would be impossible to damage it. Have you priced a plate of steel 2" thick? The steel to make what you are suggesting is probably more expensive than a serviceable anvil. Then throw on the top of that the cost of flame cutting square holes. You are probably talking minim $150 per side plus what ever else whet into making it

Secondly I am not rich. I am a working smith who will do any job that walks in the door I think I can make money on. I have done industrial work, railings, fencing, furniture, hardware, historical restorations, tools and repair work. I deal with the hard realities of being a small business owner and working craftsmen. on a daily basis I deal with The limitations of time money, government regulation, insurances and employees. In the third world they use what ever is at hand a $5 Chinese hammer is expensive to them. A smith in a rich country who is unwilling to shell out a few hundred bucks to get a good used anvil is not thinking clearly about his or her craft even is that person is dirt poor.

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Kind of have to agree with SSS here. A totaly beat, broken heeled, pitted and rusted london pattern anvil for fifty bucks or even for a hundred from a junkyard will still hold a hardy tool just fine, and likely better that a couple pieces of scrap iron with torch cut holes. Somehow, those that want to smite iron, even in the poorest countries in the world (seemingly more so actualy) manage to find something to use as an anvil. One member on this forum took a junk, underweight russian anvil and welded a thick hard plate to it, giving himself a weighty servicable anvil. Another member couldn't find an anvil to buy, even though he was surrounded by anvils for sale on craigs list alone.

Grant is correct that negative comments don't help, but it is also a fact that not all ideas are good ideas. A thorough search of this site alone will reveal a great many homemade anvils, and this is but one site of many, all of which have plans, photos, or instructions for homemade anvils. The fabricated anvil designed on this site in Grants thread is proof positive that it would not be economical for a tool company to manufacture such a device.

If this post is contrived as negative, I apoligize and will say no more on the subject either way, but it is my opinion and I feel my point is valid.

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I see no one has any ideas to improve this concept and no new designs offered. So I’ve been playing with Photo shop some more. Hey if you’re sure you hate the idea of gaining new tools at least pat me on the head and tell me I draw nice for a retarded kid.
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This is a bolted saddle for wedging top tools to the blocks its 2” wide to fit the gap in the base, by 5 or 6 inches long. I think if a builder could make top blocks that were flat bottomed with threaded holes it will help hold down costs. The second drawing is of course a legless vice and then the base with legs.

Mr. Grant thank you, you may be able to clarify the mud I seem to have stirred up please continue it is needed and wanted, I thought I had made it clear what this is about. Perhaps it’s my choice of words, if I seem unintelligible and vague I am dyslexic and confuse even myself at times.

Mr. Powers that’s a good idea but I think it would make a good tool to attach to the base.

Mr. Bob the idea is not to limit how you could use or attach the tools you get to make that decision, it’s that the tools will be made, so we can get and use them in any manner we chose. As for building a base, I believe a country boy like you and I can get any job done, if we’ve a mind to.

Hello again Mr. Southshoresmith I wasn’t trying to put words in your mouth, I thought I speaking generally to everyone. I am not interested in a debate but do you really feel that every possible tool that man can conceive in blacksmithing was concluded by industry for profit 50 or 100 years ago? If so go tell Mr. Hofi his hammer is not any good because it wasn’t invented at the right time. It is true the term ‘dollies’ is used in auto repair work, that is because the blacksmiths that became body repairmen brought the term with them, along with the rest of their ‘iron’ as my father referred to his tools. I have made many tools in my life many that snap-on will never sell, most body and frame men even back in the ‘80s did not even know what they were. And truly few even asked, they were sure if snap-on didn’t sell it, it didn’t matter. I out worked and out earned them, but that did not seem to matter, they missed a chance to obtain some knowledge at little cost to them and few had sense enough to gain it. I think if you look at the design with an open mind you may see some merit in it. I don’t know where you are but good blacksmithing equipment is not cheap here. I can’t say for sure but I don’t think even new hot rolled steel will cost more than an anvil of the same weight, perhaps someone with that information will correct me. I sincerely hope the holder I’d like to see developed may be of some small benefit to you someday.

Hey arftist why would you say that? Your not a snap-on salesman are you? ;) Have you ever used a leg vice with a wedged hold-down? Did it hold ok for you? Move around? No? that’s how wedges work simple, reliable easy to change, tools have used wedges for eons. Scrap iron in my humble opinion is not to be looked down upon. All your hardy tools fit perfect? Have all you’ll ever want? Don’t need a swage block that has that doodad thingy? How about a vice at the end? No? You’re happy with things just the way they are, and you don’t want any changes for anybody? Grant has said he feels his design is too expensive due to machining and shipping for the average smith, that’s what this is about finding a way to make it possible to bring tools to those who want them. The base I have offered is the “standard” meant to start a process that will accomplish this goal. Self built bases to use the tools that will follow will be made in any way smiths want. The base is what tool makers will use as a ‘standard’ to follow, like this “OC tools is proud to announce the new “legless leg vice” for the “standard base” this sucker holds!! And it only requires to be placed on an outside corner and two 9/16 tapped holes (instructions included) includes all attaching parts or stand alone for your custom build.” See now don’t you want one? OC builds good tools so order now so he can to get to work making them!!! ;) Seriously a standardized tool base is a good idea, I’m surprised by the lack of initial support. Perhaps my lack of oratory skills is the cause, hopefully someone will step forward and speak with a clarity the masses will imbibe. ….Repeat after me, it’s not an anvil, it’s not an anvil, it’s not an anvil, it’s not an anvil.;)

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Something not mentioned here. When you speak of making tooling for sale. You need to consider
overhead (going to have paid help insurance) How about liability ( Irving the idiot is hurt using your tool and sues
ya) My thoughts are if ya make it for yourself cheap fine. If ya can't/won't spend for a anvil or tooling save your $ till ya can.
Ken

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I just don't see the need aside from the cost. I would hate to have to reconfigure my "universal tool holder vise anvil thingy" every time I need to do a job. The iron is hot and you got to move fast. Driving wedges every time one has to change a tool is a pain in the butt. Hell changing dies in my power hammer two or three times a day gets old fast. Plus every time you do it the wedge and dove tail wears a bit. I hardie tool you just drop in. You would loose a heat if you put in the wrong tool with the time it took to change out. I use the standard leg vise on a stout post stuck in the floor half a step from the forge I can't see any limitations with that set up honestly. Though I did like that vise bickiron combo I saw in the hammers blow last issue. I have an anvil on oak a log. I have forged over the years all kinds of hardie tools and bicks. A swage block is nice because it has all the swages depressions and holes right there you just flip it over and get to work. I also don't feel that anvils are too expensive. You can get a good used anvil for around 300 bucks if you are on the ball. A leg vise for 75 to 100 and a swage block can be any where from 150 to 400. All together less than a thousand. Your tool is probably going to cost 2 at least. I can understand makeing an anvil for the fun of it and learning a few things about steel and what not. But to me your idea kind of like putting a four barrel and headers on a state-six when you can just drop in a V8 for less. Furthermore the Hofi is just a refinement of the Czech blacksmith hammer. Hofi is a superb marketer and a good blacksmith. I have a 100 year old cooper's that feels about the same.

I have a question for you. Have you ever worked in a forge that had a full selection of top and bottom tools fullers swages set hammers flatter punches drifts etc... A good heavy anvil fastened to a solid base a solid leg vise that is 100% with spacers and jaw caps. A good swage block on a stand that holds it so it won't move when you are wailing on it with a sledge. A selection bicks and stakes every thing one step from the forge? Not many smiths have the whole deal I dont feel limited by that setup, I feel empowered.

I think a lot of beginners if they have good tools don't utilize them to full effect. Then they say this tool doesn't work so they reinvent the wheel when the solution was right there in front of them. Have you ever seen Peter Ross work? He uses very simple tooling traditional tooling. He is one of the least limited craftsmen I know.

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Red Green,
Sorry you are having such a challenge sharing your idea ... your original post listed two metal blocks 2x18x33" ... A36 in a block 2x12x24" lists for $285.04 at Metals Depot online. Your base seems like it would end up being too expensive ... before any "milling" to create mounting features for tools. Maybe I am missing something here, but metal still costs a lot unless it is found laying about. Does your base have to be that large? From what I have seen at IFI, anvils end up being like other tools. People buy what they can afford, make their own or convert something that is tool-like to match the task. Some folks have the best and latest, say a Nimba anvil, others of us go get a hunk of metal and try to make do with that. Either one is okay and actually beyond any criticism ... I think that a lot of us can sympathize with your desire to find a solution. That's why there was such an outpouring of comments about Mr. Sarver's idea. I, for one, would love to see you or someone create an "anvil in a box" with serious adaptability - and at a price point that avoids any discussions with significant others about "where'd you say you spent that money, honey?" No tool meets every need - even the Leatherman pocket tools and the so called Swiss knives have shortcomings. But, people told Col Sanders that he was wrong to try to sell chicken too - don't give up! I think that sharing your idea in any forum is brave and I commend you for hanging in there. Keep at it!

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I think that some see this as a solution to a nonexistent problem. I did a search last weekend and found over a dozen anvils from 100# to 400#. Some were priced around $1 a pound, some $4 a pound. I also found forges, blowers, etc. Blacksmithing tools are available, it just depends on how much you want to spend.

I think another factor in this, is that smiths like to make things, including tools. They also take pride in "Look at what I made". Your "base" would probably be better as a print that they could use to make one themselves using local scrap.

Tim is correct in saying that what works for me, may not be suitable for someone else. I see what you would like, something akin to machine tools with standard arbors, etc. Using that analogy look at how many different styles of arbors there are for milling machines; R8, various Morse tapers, various B&S tapers, #30/#40/#50 NMT, and the list goes on. Now each one of these has been standardized, so that whatever brand of mill you get, an R8 is an R8, and it will fit any machine with an R8 spindle. Your modular BS tool may work for some, but it won't work for everyone. The other thing is it is nice to have dedicated tools that do not need reconfiguring. One shop I worked at we had a Miller combo welder that did TIG/MIG/Arc, and it was a PITA swapping leads, and plugs all the time. I much prefer my home setup where I have separate welders. If I want to TIG I use the TIG. If I want to MIG I grab one of the MIGs. Having soooo many variations in BS tooling isn't like screw threads. Way back before SAE,and ISO threads, a craftsman would determine what diameter, and pitch he felt would work. They did work, but when the industrial revolution came about a standard need to be established, so that shops all around the world could make fasteners that would work with everyone elses fasteners. I don't think that there is as great need to standardize BS tooling. Other than for marketing a mass produced product. It isn't like smiths are swapping tooling all of the time. If we get tooling that doesn't fit our anvils, we can modify it to fit.

If you can come up with an item that can be made locally with available materials it will greatly reduce the costs involved. Instead of a solid steel plate maybe something like trailer hitch receiver tubes welded up. Welded into a steel box that was then filled with concrete, or even packed sand could work. I don't see that I would need something like this. But then again, I have tons of stuff to work with, and the machine tools to make anything I want.

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Hey Mr. southshoresmith how are you? I understand you don’t want to fiddle with any silly thing that is not a traditional blacksmith tool. And I agree why would you need something that required you to choose a tool to install if you have every tool made for blacksmithing already, placed in exactly the right place in a perfect shop.

And while I would like to believe this tool base is a good idea, you are again right quality used blacksmithing tools are cheap and plentiful. The new anvil and tool market must be crying their eyes out with no sales.

I cannot say if Mr. Hofi’s hammer is the best forging hammer ever as I have not had the pleasure of using one. I’m sure I don’t need to defend Mr. Hofi or his ‘refinement’ assuming you mean ‘to bring closer to perfection’ and I’m sure you’re not inferring that he is claiming unwarranted recognition for his hammer with the statement “Hofi is a superb market(er) and a good blacksmith”. I don’t know him but I see him as a superb blacksmith and teacher, a very generous one at that, just his excellent blueprints on this site are unprecedented and unmatched as far I have seen. I’m a nube here and I’m sure you must have shared a great deal as your obviously very talented and successful blacksmith where can I see it?

I’m not sure what your question is if it is have I ever worked in a forge that has everything, then no can’t say that I have, probably never will, sounds like a tall order. It’s great you have ‘the whole deal’ and feel unlimited and empowered. You’re probably correct also invention and ‘refinement’ as you put it is just an excuse or fools and beginners to waste time. I look forward to your teaching me a great deal in the future.

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I see no one has any ideas to improve this concept and no new designs offered. So I’ve been playing with Photo shop some more. Hey if you’re sure you hate the idea of gaining new tools at least pat me on the head and tell me I draw nice for a retarded kid.
post-12642-12649039210213_thumb.gif post-12642-12649039554532_thumb.gif post-12642-12649039941763_thumb.gif

This is a bolted saddle for wedging top tools to the blocks its 2” wide to fit the gap in the base, by 5 or 6 inches long. I think if a builder could make top blocks that were flat bottomed with threaded holes it will help hold down costs. The second drawing is of course a legless vice and then the base with legs.

Mr. Grant thank you, you may be able to clarify the mud I seem to have stirred up please continue it is needed and wanted, I thought I had made it clear what this is about. Perhaps it’s my choice of words, if I seem unintelligible and vague I am dyslexic and confuse even myself at times.

Mr. Powers that’s a good idea but I think it would make a good tool to attach to the base.

Mr. Bob the idea is not to limit how you could use or attach the tools you get to make that decision, it’s that the tools will be made, so we can get and use them in any manner we chose. As for building a base, I believe a country boy like you and I can get any job done, if we’ve a mind to.

Hello again Mr. Southshoresmith I wasn’t trying to put words in your mouth, I thought I speaking generally to everyone. I am not interested in a debate but do you really feel that every possible tool that man can conceive in blacksmithing was concluded by industry for profit 50 or 100 years ago? If so go tell Mr. Hofi his hammer is not any good because it wasn’t invented at the right time. It is true the term ‘dollies’ is used in auto repair work, that is because the blacksmiths that became body repairmen brought the term with them, along with the rest of their ‘iron’ as my father referred to his tools. I have made many tools in my life many that snap-on will never sell, most body and frame men even back in the ‘80s did not even know what they were. And truly few even asked, they were sure if snap-on didn’t sell it, it didn’t matter. I out worked and out earned them, but that did not seem to matter, they missed a chance to obtain some knowledge at little cost to them and few had sense enough to gain it. I think if you look at the design with an open mind you may see some merit in it. I don’t know where you are but good blacksmithing equipment is not cheap here. I can’t say for sure but I don’t think even new hot rolled steel will cost more than an anvil of the same weight, perhaps someone with that information will correct me. I sincerely hope the holder I’d like to see developed may be of some small benefit to you someday.

Hey arftist why would you say that? Your not a snap-on salesman are you? ;) Have you ever used a leg vice with a wedged hold-down? Did it hold ok for you? Move around? No? that’s how wedges work simple, reliable easy to change, tools have used wedges for eons. Scrap iron in my humble opinion is not to be looked down upon. All your hardy tools fit perfect? Have all you’ll ever want? Don’t need a swage block that has that doodad thingy? How about a vice at the end? No? You’re happy with things just the way they are, and you don’t want any changes for anybody? Grant has said he feels his design is too expensive due to machining and shipping for the average smith, that’s what this is about finding a way to make it possible to bring tools to those who want them. The base I have offered is the “standard” meant to start a process that will accomplish this goal. Self built bases to use the tools that will follow will be made in any way smiths want. The base is what tool makers will use as a ‘standard’ to follow, like this “OC tools is proud to announce the new “legless leg vice” for the “standard base” this sucker holds!! And it only requires to be placed on an outside corner and two 9/16 tapped holes (instructions included) includes all attaching parts or stand alone for your custom build.” See now don’t you want one? OC builds good tools so order now so he can to get to work making them!!! ;) Seriously a standardized tool base is a good idea, I’m surprised by the lack of initial support. Perhaps my lack of oratory skills is the cause, hopefully someone will step forward and speak with a clarity the masses will imbibe. ….Repeat after me, it’s not an anvil, it’s not an anvil, it’s not an anvil, it’s not an anvil.;)

Hey Red Green...

I think you'll have a tough time winning over the masses here... Best thing to do is build one and get some feedback.... If you where close I could even help with some material... If the idea suits you and your passionate about it.. praise and believers will come, and so will he haters and naysayers.... Just do what you think is best, as the Great Wise one once told me... At the very least you'll learn something.... ;)
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Please don't take this conversation personalty. I don't think you are a fool I actually think you idea if quite creative. I just think it is a whole lot of work and its going to be expensive. In addition I don't think it will work as well as the real deal People buy New anvils because they are just that new. A 120 lb Nimba is 1200 bucks. A lot of people want new stuff its an emotional thing. Go on Ebay or Craigs list you can get a whole lot of anvil for 1200 bucks. I could cite many examples of other new anvils in the same price range. I am saying the whole deal is not that hard except for the hand tools that will take time to make and acquire. Many people just don't set up their tools right. Bolt down the vise put the anvil on a stout base. Stay out of Home Depot for your supplies and thinking when it comes to blacksmithing.

I remember as a child I tried to use some old rusty files my grandfather had from his father. They were dull with no handles. I concluded that files were useless and hurt your hand. My grandfather was an insurance executive had no idea how to properly use and care for a file so he was no help. So I always wanted to use the bench grinder. Later on my first teacher showed me otherwise. I see files an an indispensable part of my tool kit. I know of with years or experience welders who have never learned how to use a file and will swear up and down they are useless.

I have no problem with Hofi I honestly don't follow him that much. But some people act like he invented blacksmithing or if you don't use his hammers your arm will fall off. Superb smith? that's a tall order. Have you ever looked at 18th century iron work form France or England That work is humbling. Most people don't even really understand what they are looking at when they are confronted with the real deal smiths included. I don't claim to be all that I just say I have experience in forging metal.

My question is. Have you ever worked at a forge with the full traditional set up? And if so have you found it lacking? I am also saying it is not as hard to acquire as you say.

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Hello Mr. McCoy
Sharing is easy you open up yourself and give, this is no challenge, you take a horse to water and you can even drowned him, but you can’t make him drink. I’m sure Metals Depot is a fine establishment and after I win the lotto I’ll have them deliver stock via overnight courier.

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Ok, this is a rant so skip it if your not in the mood.

New tools are purchased and made by those with the need in the present or the foresight to see need in the future. A wise craftsman knows his tools can define his work and they can make some jobs easy that were extremely hard, I’m sure you know this. The cost to buy or build ‘standard base’ is immaterial a tools value is not its cost. Smiths all know a hammer is a heavy ‘something’ you hit things with, why spend time and money on a hammer, rocks are everywhere. People have had the same level of intelligents for hundreds of thousands of years, yet we have only been smithing for a short few thousand. I’m sure the first guy to make a hammer was told it was a waste of time and effort, can’t you see all these rocks stupid? I’m sure he saw the rocks but aren’t you glad he made the hammer anyway? Tradition is an important thing it shows the path of the successful, but if you cannot see past it you can be trapped within it. I hope Mr. Hofi will forgive me for continuing to use him as a positive example, but he has shown many a way of forging that is not traditional and works quite well, I’m sure to the dismay of the staunch traditionalist who I’m sure tell all who will listen it’s a waste of time and effort, and you should continue to work in a way they see as traditional. In truth we live in a modern world who owes much of its comfort to smiths who continued to expand their knowledge, many of the trades and professions are simply refinements of the ‘traditional’ smith. And yes its true smiths invented and designed themselves right out of the forge, most were happy to leave a life of hard work and little reward, I’m sure the traditionalist would be happy to live a life like that, I wonder why they don’t?

I’m not trying to get anyone out of the forge, we are in one for many reasons, some because they need to eat some are just having fun I just want to make tools to help. I would love to build a prototype and display its potential, but alas my financial situation prevents this, perhaps someone will have the foresight to take up the slack I have left. I could build a scrap version of the base but that does not provide the ‘standard’ required for tool makers to use as the ‘standard’. I may have to sing this song solo till I’m sick of the words, I sure would like to hear the choir sing something besides ‘can’t be done’.

Once again the design is an example or a starting point to find the ‘standard’ tool makers will accept as the basis for making tools for it. If no one but myself sees the potential for a sturdy tool holder that can be used to build tools in any manner chosen then yes I’m wasting my time.

I feel that many think I’m trying to kick over their Hay Budden and set my dang fool contraption in its place. That is not what this is about. Open your minds to something new, I know schools, businesses and governments require everyone to think and live in the narrow path they have decided everyone must follow and never think for themselves so I’m sure it’s a challenge for many to see past where there nose is placed. The world has not seen all that is good, but people will have to find it and not be detoured by those who feel they should be the only ones to enjoy it. If you have everything you must be very lucky, talented or smart congratulations, now how about sharing?

If you are a ‘staunch traditionalist’ why not start a thread about why there should be no changes in what you have decided a ‘true blacksmith’ is. Please let us newbies know what the limitations are so we won’t step over the line.

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I decided to go ahead with my fabricated anvil in part because I was able to get the 300 pound burnouts for $160.00 each. After machining the bases I was still in pretty good shape but making a minimum number of tools pushed it over the top. I cannot get by on $50.00 per hour.

Once the flat, round and hardy piece are wedged in, I doubt that I would changing them out very often, if ever. The point wasn't to change them out, the point was just attaching hard faces onto the blocks, just like they forge-welded them on 100 years ago. What the heck are you doing that you need to change out your power-hammer dies "two or three times a day".

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