A standard anvil base?

[Red Green]

Wow Mr. Newman you’re one of the people I really do not want to misunderstand what I’m saying. The standard is not for the tools, they are to be made in any way the manufacture wishes, in any manner, out of any material required, attached in any way seen fit.

The standard is for the holder that we need to design together, meaning as many people with of course the knowledge and willingness to contribute.

When the design standard is completed and a consensus approves of it, it does not even ever have to be built by anyone. It’s not the object of the goal, the goal is the tools made for it.

The standard gives manufactures an object to design for, it gives buyers a reasonable expectation of knowing what will be required of them to use it before they make an investment.

A major part of the design features needs to address the fact that not everybody wants the same thing. The tools need to be adaptable so the holder must not interfere with that aspect of the tools. Therefore in my opinion the holder should be as simple as possible. At the same time the holder is not an empty exercise I’m sure some will want one, so it should be sturdy, useable and reasonably easy to build.

I don’t want to set up limitations or requirements on how to design this holder that’s for all of us to do.

[Timothy Miller]

Ya know this whole thread has got me thinking about the problem of a universal stake holder. About how they are all different angles on the shank. This is a problem I have been thinking about as I have accumulated stakes over the years and non of them seem to fit my stake plate as well as I would like.

[Red Green]

Hello Mr. southshoresmith,

“I honestly don't see any problem with the existing equipment.”

I know you’ve said so before.

“Other than stuff that is not set up right or people not having the experience of how to use it properly.”

Don’t take this as a go away it’s not, please stay and continue to comment. But why don’t you start a thread in the tools section on how to properly fit tooling in hardys and such? I’m sure many would benefit from your experience.

“You want a universal to holder we have one its called a vise.”

Is your comment that the holder should be built like a vice? Interesting idea, how do you purpose it should be constructed?


“I asked before what is the problem with a traditional set up? “

If a traditional set up is the same as the picture of your shop, wow, nothing is wrong with it.

“You can see various patents in the back of the book "Anvils in America" several of them for elaborate improvements on anvils. One of them is for a anvil with dovetailed in replaceable face. In the heyday of the blacksmith in America when they were making thousands of tons of anvils a year if some body could have come up with a better and cheaper modular anvil it would have sold. Especally back then when labor was cheaper and our collective knowledge of blacksmithing was far greater. Anvils were a were an absolute necessity at the time and their design the result of thousands of years ofmetalworking knowledge. On top of that there are many types of anvils, the cutlers anvil comes to mind. It had dovetails in the face to hold tools that were in constant usage. Do you think a bunch of hobbyist some of witch have limited actual forging experience are going to in a few evenings typing away on the internet do better.”

You seem to have a great deal of respect for men who lived in the past and very little for those who live in the present. If you look carefully you’ll see we are not much different, it’s just that were not dead.

“If you are doing this because you think its cool or fun go for it and I will stop my criticism.”

Criticize away.

“But if you think this is going to fundamentally change the craft well I don't know what to say.”

I don’t think it will affect the craft at all, it may get some people a few new tools though.

“Prove me wrong build one that is so useful that I will need to buy one to stay in business.”

Well, I don’t have anything to prove, I don’t know what it is you want me to build, I don’t think I could affect your business.

[Timothy Miller]

“I honestly don't see any problem with the existing equipment.”

I know you’ve said so before.

What problems do you see? Tell Me

[Red Green]

Anvilflower, you have a nice name, you make flowers? If your asking me if I am going to build a European anvil then no, I’m not an anvil maker, but if you have a pattern you can have one cast at a foundry.

[Red Green]

Southshorsemith said:

“What problems do you see? Tell Me”

The only problem I see is someone who apparently wants conflict. I’d like to think we may be very much the same and perhaps your words are not pointed, but only hasty in tone, the true meaning lost in my interpretation. But I don’t think so, so let me say, I am not your nemeses and no threat to you and yours. Have I insulted you beyond forgiveness? At what point will you accept that you’re the better man? What is it that you want?

[Timothy Miller]

No this is not personal. For me this is about the idea not you. I want to know what problems do you see with existing tooling?

[Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver]

Come on you guys, it's time to just walk away from it. THERE WILL BE NO RESOLUTION TO THIS. It has descended into chaos. Let's just go play on other threads.

[Red Green]

Mr. Southshorsemith,
I have no problem with existing tooling. Please read post #76 I don’t know how to say it any plainer. I’m really not trying to take anything away. There is nothing for anyone to make until there is a design. Its tools that is the goal, tools like we use now, maybe some new designs we will find very useful. Tools designed to be adaptable to your environment, your style of smithing. If this idea just will not fit in your world, so be it.

[Tim McCoy]

Red Green,

Just took a break from ffinishing the first wall of my tiny smithy and found you still here hammering things out ...

Got a couple of quotes for you;

"Nobody can be so amusingly arrogant as a young man who has just dicovered an old idea and thinks it is his own."
sidney J. Harris

"Put the argument into a concrete shape, into an image, some hard phrase, round and solid as a ball, which they can see and handle and carry home with them, and the cause is half won."
Ralph Waldo Emerson

Seems like maybe you are stuck in between the two. Several people have shared some ideas about what to do, how to do it and even offered you encouragement. On the other hand, some of us have said that what you propose, as you put it in your very first post, costs too much or won't meet enough people's needs. None of them are wrong. May I suggest again that you build one, even if you gotta do it with cardboard. Then let it set a while, walk around it and then see if somehow you can make it better, then do it again. Trust me and the others here when we say we wish you luck in your endeavor, but try to understand that just because everyone doesn't find your idea interesting isn't to suggest that you stop. If and when your ideas get some kind of movement you will still meet resistance.

Most of the senior members on this site are easy with sharing their insight and often are just a bit stern with us new guys and more often than not, are right about what they say. Ignore whatever/whomever irks you and engage with those that seem to be willing and able to help you move your ideas along. You do not have to respond to every posting. It is a forum and therefore it is a place where ideas can be shared and hopefully without rancor or sniping; a place for honest comments and hopefully thoughtful suggestions and queries and yes, opinions. Some of those opinions are going to be contrary to what you want. So what??

Well, my break is over so I gotta go. Good luck Red Green. Nakedanvil is right - time to close the door and go play elsewhere.

Tim

Edited February 3, 2010 by Tim McCoy

[Red Green]

Amazing

[southernforge]

Then wath type of anvil are you making?

[Red Green]

Mr. Grant,

I’m not playing, and I don’t think this can be accomplished within a few days. You must admit this idea is convoluted and hard to swallow. I don’t know of any objects or set of objects that man has brought forth in this manner. The idea of a mental exercise to create an unnecessary object to use as a model and design field for reapplication of existing and functional apparatus and the creation of new ones, will cause some to miss the point. And resistance to such an idea will undoubtedly manifest itself in some people.

If I do come to the conclusion that it is useless to continue here, then I must find a new venue for this exercise. I doubt that I will find any such venue that will not be resisted in some manner, so I’ll stay until that time.

[Sam Thompson]

Mr Green,

I've been reading your thread with interest, particularly now that you have become an 'Advanced Member' (incidentally, you are the first I've seen; is it a title that you have awarded yourself?). You don't seem to have spent much time with blacksmiths, we are in my experience some of the most open minded craftsmen you are likely to meet, anyone would be interested in new types of equipment which would help them to make money.
I do find it difficult to give your posts much credence as you don't give your true name, your location or any indication of your professional output. You have not contributed anything to any other threads. The only way one has of assessing your credibility is your professed liking for duck tape. Your apparent ability to upset nearly everyone who has given constructive criticism of your new toy leads me to believe that you are not genuinely trying to engage with the forum but merely amusing yourself by seeing how annoying you can be before you get barred/shunned, whatever. I hope that I can be proved wrong.

[JWCarlson]

I'm just upset that you've got a way more negative rating than I do.

UnicornForge would have a fit knowing the rating system was being used in such a way.

[Red Green]

Anvilflower,

I’m making an anvil to forge an idea.

[Sam Thompson]

Pretentious nonsense.

[Red Green]

Good day Mr. Thompson,

That’s wild, maybe it’s an advance out the door. Yes, it’s true I spend little time with blacksmiths, or anyone for that matter. Yes, smiths are that, and much more. If you look at the bottom of my first post you will see my name and location. I assume “indication of your professional output” is a question of who are you. I’m a dyslexic high school dropout. I hope that does not bring you to the conclusion that I am incapable of contributing to the betterment of this craft. And duct tape will save the world . I am a nube here, and I do not think my skills as a smith are worthy of comment when so many highly skilled and talented smiths are here to answer. “Your apparent ability to upset nearly everyone” I seem to have the uncanny ability to cause that, my effect on people is like crackers in bed. “I hope that I can be proved wrong.” I will let others prove that one way or the other.

“Pretentious nonsense.” Wow, I assume that was pointed at me. What is I said that make you feel that way?

[Timothy Miller]

Red Green I got clinkers bigger than you.

[Red Green]

Southshorsemith said:

“Red Green I got clinkers bigger than you.”

It must be hard to get your iron in there, I’d try a new bag of coal.

[Red Green]

Hey Southshorsemith,

If you’re really angry and want to hit somebody do what I use to do, go into a bar and shout ‘I can kick anybody’s xxx in here” It shouldn’t take long, just stay out of xxx bars, those guys are wimps.

I have said this and cannot bring myself to remove it, it would only make it worse, it shows I’m human and make great errors. I ask that you don’t judge me too harshly.

[Rich Hale]

Red Green

I have not chosen to participate in this thread as It does not interest me.
However I am a rather active member of this site and take great pride in that. In that capacity let me fill you in on how this family forum works.

No one is allowed to use profanity at all. We never know the age group or preferences of those that read and post in here.

No one is allowed to refer to anyone elses sexual preferences for similiar reasons.

If you have something to say then find ways to get your point across without breaking the above rules. They are simple and easy to work with.

And for all: No matter the subject of the threads on here let us not allow things to get personal or be written in a manner that seems to be a personal attack. Grants advice above was great. let it go and walk away.

I really enjoy wot I have learned and who I have learned from in this site. Thanks to all of you for keeping it up and sharing. Lets just do it in a nice way like almost all of it is done.

[Red Green]

OK, I’ll go, thank you for your time.

[Timothy Miller]

I'm not angry I'm laughing this thread is one of the funner things I have seen in a wile. I asked you in several different ways to justify you feeling that there is a need to do this. You basically came up with nothing of substance. I tried to debate the idea on its merits and you ignored most of what I had to say. You took a personal condescending tone. You stated that you did not have the means to build it or the even the desire. You have little to no forging experience yet insist that there is a need for this tool. You cant even point out the limitations of forging equipment that this tool would address.

[Sam Thompson]

I think that just about sums it up... Can someone please put this thread out of its misery?!