Fe-Wood Posted January 17, 2010 Share Posted January 17, 2010 My wife's birthday is coming up and she loves Roses so I thought I would make a nice vase with some Roses in it. I've looked high and low and can't seem to find a simple pattern for the bud. I want to make them out of copper scrap. Anybody have a pattern they can share with me? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad Creek Blacksmith Posted January 17, 2010 Share Posted January 17, 2010 The only pattern I've seen is on anvilfire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGGUNDOCTOR Posted January 17, 2010 Share Posted January 17, 2010 Is there a florist close that you could get a real one to pick apart? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fe-Wood Posted January 18, 2010 Author Share Posted January 18, 2010 I looked on anvilfire, no luck. I saw one somewhere a while back. It was the same as the one Mark Aspery uses in his rose making demo on utube. I was hoping to avoid re-inventing the wheel on this..... I know its out there...... Somewhere Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctp13 Posted January 18, 2010 Share Posted January 18, 2010 When I make them I use 5 petals per layer 2 layers the first being a little longer than the second lay out the petals ( I forge mine out of 1/4 x 1 usually) make them taper to base ( MIDLE) I weld them together leaving a hole for the stem forge stem to allow petal package to slid on but not all-the way down leaving about 1 inch weld the first package Place second - smaller package ( the differences in length allow for the greater distance the first have to travel ) weld second package - now start bending up petals like you would tighten lug-nuts on a wheel ( onside then do opposite) work around the second package until it is fairly tight. Start first package but start in a different place and alternate one side to another being sure to tuck each petal under the next so that they lay one over the other all the way round (( do this on both sets) Now start peeling the exposed edge back a little as a real rose might look . or you could cut each set a petals from a sheet - I like the forged look so that it does not look too commercial - using steel I end up with about 4 pounds of rose. more like a weapon . Here is one I made for my sister from one piece of steel No welding I started with two identical pieces one ended up being the rose leaf and the other the base. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Trez Cole Posted January 18, 2010 Share Posted January 18, 2010 Fe-wood I go to the store and buy a silk flower and take it apart that is a great pattern if you go to iforge through anvilfire http://www.anvilfire.com/iForge/ here is the link B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rthibeau Posted January 18, 2010 Share Posted January 18, 2010 Here is the rose pattern from Bill Epps' demo on making roses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fe-Wood Posted January 18, 2010 Author Share Posted January 18, 2010 Thank you all for your help! Thats the one Richard! ctp13- thanks for the link, I missed it the first go round :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad Creek Blacksmith Posted January 18, 2010 Share Posted January 18, 2010 Thank you all for your help! Thats the one Richard! ctp13- thanks for the link, I missed it the first go round Sorry FE should have explained a little better and found it for you. Have a good time making them. Your wife will surely enjoy them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Turley Posted January 18, 2010 Share Posted January 18, 2010 Click on Jere Kirkpatrick's Valley Forge & Welding site to get a visual: http://saber.net/jere/. Jere shows four layers plus calyx, but a guy can use five. My calyx looks a little like a five pointed star. The layout is also shown in Ernst Schwarzkopf's excellent book, "Plain and Ornamental Forging." http://www.turleyforge.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grant Posted January 18, 2010 Share Posted January 18, 2010 Fe-Wood -Since you are going to use scrap copper you might want to take a look at this UTube Video. -grant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fe-Wood Posted January 18, 2010 Author Share Posted January 18, 2010 Thanks for all the input.... I hope I can do it justice :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sukellos Posted January 18, 2010 Share Posted January 18, 2010 This is the simplest I've ever used. Cut a circle, according to the size you want to make the rose, drill/punch a hole in the center for the stem and divide the circle into 4,5 or 6 pie pieces. Nip off the outter corners and shape to suite. You can stack 3 or more of these depending on how many petals you want the rose to have. Forgive the crude drawing. I don't draw so well with a mouse. Who am I kidding? I don't draw so well with a pencil neither! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Dean Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 I use the pattern shown a few post up, sort like Bill Epps' but with the five points on the calyx. I use what they call 16oz copper, the stuff used for flashing, gutters, etc., and have stacked as many as 15 layers high. clamp tightly in vise, tack with your MIG (yep, you can do it), mark your pattern on the top using a scribe, and cut with your bandsaw. (I use my wood bandsaw for this as it works just fine. I keep a small container of water handy to cool as they do get hot. Leave one corner that is tacked for the last to be cut as one you seperate all of the tacked up corner you will have a bunch of pieces. I also use the 5 layer of petals. Weld a 1/4" bolt on the end of your 'stem' make sure to build up for the rose hip and use a lock washer and nut to secure the petals to the stem. I will also secure a piece of felt to the nut on the inside to absorb the rose scent. You can go to Hobbie Lobby for rose scent, it's cheap and really adds to the rose. Have fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fe-Wood Posted January 19, 2010 Author Share Posted January 19, 2010 Thomas- You smart! stack up 15.... now thats what I call gett'n it done I might use the tig and fuze it though. I need a vase full so I think you just saved me about 4 hours- maybe more! Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_Eddy Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 I did a step by photo series on my Blog of making some roses. Take a look at www.creationsinmetal.tumblr.com.page/2 and the newer posts. Note that I missed a step in the photo series. There is a 4 point star added under the bud when assembling to the stem that gets rolled down. It shows in the final picture but not in the step by step. Big_Eddy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Dean Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 Thomas- You smart! stack up 15.... now thats what I call gett'n it done I might use the tig and fuze it though. I need a vase full so I think you just saved me about 4 hours- maybe more! Thanks! Fe-Wood, I tried the TIG but like the MIG better as it is faster. I can have petals for 15 roses in about an hour, 1 1/2hrs tops. I also use a chipping gun with a real dull chisel to do the texture. Put a rubber or wood under the copper, anything real hard and you will cut through the copper. Pic of the vase of roses when you are done! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fe-Wood Posted January 20, 2010 Author Share Posted January 20, 2010 Will do Thomas- OK, I'll use the mig. No need to work to hard.... I spent the afternoon prepping and making tools for the roses.... Don't have a scale gun.... I'm going with Mark Aspery's method so I made some of the tools in his utube video. Depending on how well it goes- I'll post pictures along the way never made a rose before.... I also did a practice spinning run on a similar design for the vase. It will be drawn this deep but a different design and in Copper or Brass. As a beginning spinner this shape has been a huge challenge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike-hr Posted January 20, 2010 Share Posted January 20, 2010 That's a very nice vase, way to go! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raymond Head Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 I suggest going to a hobby supply store such as Michelle’s or Hobby lobby. Find a fake / silk flower that you like and purchases 2 of them. Take one apart and flatten out the peddles and use that as your pattern. The second flowed is a model to go by when you form the flower. A lot of engineering goes into designing those flowers so they will be easily stamped out and formed into a flower. Take advantage of that engineering… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welder19 Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 One of the blueprints in the hoffi series has a real simple one demoed by one of his students. welder19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fe-Wood Posted January 21, 2010 Author Share Posted January 21, 2010 can't seem to find the blueprints :unsure: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatamax Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 Thank you all for your help! Thats the one Richard! ctp13- thanks for the link, I missed it the first go round I used that pattern to produce this for our lass last valentines Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 I don't know whether this will work or not, but I'll give it a go in the absence of blueprints, based on my notes and bits done on this weekends course at Westpoint. and some pics I've tried to put in. the ones illustrated have five petals which seems to be the American standard, and four petals which I normally use There should be enogh information to help you to make them There are two methods used, one where the petals are dished before assembly which are preferably held on by a screw to the stem (four petal version) or the alternative is to rivet the petals on (Five petal version)and whilst the centre is easily accessible, rivet them on to the stem. Then use a torch and round nose pliers to adjust the petals. So Here we go, Making a stem for a flower head Forge a tenon on the end to suit the holes in the petals, Square up the shoulder with a monkey tool Using a necking / spring tool, neck in at a suitable distance Draw down the bar for a stem long enough for your requirements and cut off Leave the end as a scarf if you intend to forge weld it to another stem, or make a tenon if you intend to fit it to to something else Or you could omit the tenon and drill and tap into the flat end of the bar to secure the petals and sepal with a suitable screw. Forming the Petals Cut out all the forms Method 1 Texture or thin the edges on each petal, start at the outer sides and work towards centre The petal will spread as you thin it out Anneal if necessary, Dish each petal assembly, each one to fit inside the other, curl tops outwards slightly Cup the sepal (star shape) and texture Assembly Assemble the petals to the stem in the correct order, Use a round head or pan head screw to secure them to the stem, Finally adjust the petals and sepal to your liking, clean up and finish as required Rose oil on a felt pad gives a finishing touch Method 2 Texture or thin the edges on each petal, start at the outer sides and work towards centre The petal will spread as you thin it out Assemble the petals to the stem in the correct order, then use a set to close them up to the shoulder, and rivet them in position, (Heat the tenon using a torch if necessary then you can use a snap to rivet the tenon over). Using an appropriate heat source, adjust the petals and sepal to your liking, Clean up and finish as required Rose oil on a felt pad gives a finishing touch Then to make it really a double whammy on Valentines day and gain some brownie points make a heart as Brian Brazeall's contribution and secure the rose to the heart (Tenon or weld), That would make a nice paperweight or dressing table ornament Good luck and have fun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PICKETTR Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 You can also by the petal pre-cut from www.blacksmithdepot.com under supplies. They are out of 18ga steel and are very simular to Bill Epps' pattern. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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