beth Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 right on Jake - good advice - i still havent made any tongs because ive got a few really pretty awful old farm sale ones and so i try hard not to use tongs, but i know i should get and make some and learn the skills and then i can have whatever tongs i want! and i wont have to avoid using them or drop stuff with my rubbish ones. if we cant make the tongs then we 're not going to be much good at making what we're holding onto with our shop boughts... not that theres anything wrong with buying some too - and grants sound pretty nice:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gadetoz Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 I understand Brian's UGLY comment but offer the following thoughts: Tongs don't have to be pretty - they must be functional Lots of posts on this forum about 'Forge Welding' summarize a skill I consider requires practice and patience. In this context - most of the skills required to make a "pretty" set of tongs will be of great use in blacksmithing and therefore I would keep trying to make a set you are happy with. Trevor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mills Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 I bought 5 pairs of tongs (OCP) about 10 yrs ago. burned one up with some help, lost one gave one away and now have a v bit left that stays nominally around the 3/8th to 5/8 range. Since then I have made 20-30 pair of tongs which are just now starting to work and function as well as the original store bought. I'll take some time to make up some blanks then create what I need on the fly so to speak. My favorite is using 5/8ths rd and make 2 90 tongs. On the end of the bar near side of anvil create the flat tapered jaw, turn 90 degrees go to far side of anvil and set the boss for the rivet, turn 90 degrees and set the area behind the boss for the rein transition, then draw out the reins down to 3/8ths rd. Drawing the reins is GREAT practice and should be done to keep your skills in tune. Summary: Having an example or 5 of what a GOOD pair of tongs looks and works like was very useful to keep me banging away to a finish line. Now I know when MY tongs are good enough. I still need to practice though. Hope my saga helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf's Den Armoury Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 I have a tongs construction question.... Something just really doesn't make any sense at all to me. A couple of the blueprints here, as well as videos and other online tutorials show the smith making their tongs from flat stock, then as soon as the main portion of the tongs is finished, they cut off the jaws a couple of inches behind the rivet hole and draw it out to (insert dimension here) in order to prepare it for welding to (insert dimension here) Round stock. Why would you not start with round stock to begin with? It just plain doesn't make any sense....:confused::confused::confused: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy k Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 (edited) That's the way of the blacksmith..... take square or flat stock and make it round or take round stock and make it square or flat. - JK Edited October 31, 2009 by jeremy k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 Its called economy of working in our forge, and a lot depends on what sizes of tongs you are making You make the jaw out of a suitable size piece of material, and the forge weld reins on using stock round bar. That was the "traditional way" of making tongs in wrought iron and is still valid today, I don't want to spend time on drawing reins down even under a powerhammer when I can utilise that time in a more rewarding manner. Now you may consider drawing down practice to be a valuable way of using your time learning hammering techniques, but when you have achieved a level of competence, then you can use your time more effectively. Having said all that, there is no right or wrong way to make tongs if they hold the work effectively, securely and comfortably then that is fine. Use what works for you, and enjoy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 Shape is irrelevant, it's cross-section that matters. The round that you use for the reins does not have enough mass to make the jaws or the boss for the rivet. After you forge it, it doesn't matter what it started as. It's alway about getting the right mass where you need it, whether welding, upsetting or drawing down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yesteryearforge Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 (edited) Some things are just cheaper to buy than to make That said I can make tongs and do every now and again for use in rush lamps and such. Just because I can doesnt mean that I am compelled to. I can make box end wrenches and sockets and ratchets too but guess what ( i buy them ) I own the wolf jaw and some OCP and some TOM tongs and some atha / champion / Bill Epps and even a few TANNER tongs ( man that has a good ring to it doesnt it ). I have found that I allmost allways reach for the TOM tongs when im working. I agree that every smith should know how to make their own tongs but after that the economy of scale cries out BUY THEM and spend your time making other things. Mike Tanner Edited October 31, 2009 by yesteryearforge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted November 1, 2009 Author Share Posted November 1, 2009 Wow this thread has taken on some life! I said earlier that I plan to make tongs again, later. I agree that the skills are important and needed. I do need the practice too. Mills has a very good point that I was thinking about too: having quality tongs for reference (and maybe inspiration) I may buy only one pair of tongs, probably the gooseneck chain tongs. If I do that I can buy some steel instead and have a go at other needed tools. I think I can figure out the wolf jaw on the Peddinghouse tongs and just put them on a set of flat jaw tongs that there are directions for. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russell_smith93 Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 (edited) I am frustrated with trying to make tongs. I think they are slightly advanced for my skill level. Pliers and channel locks are not ideal either. I am thinking about BUYING NEW AT RETAIL PRICE two (2) pair of tongs. At $40 or so a pair this will kill an entire months hobby budget. I am learning on "smaller" materials such as 3/8 and 1/2 inch square and round. I also have some thick sheet metal. I expect to want to use larger materials in the future. I have a gas forge currently, and may build a solid fuel forge in the future. I am not currently interested in reworking another tool, or adding long handles to pliers or channel locks (although I likely will do this eventually) There seem to be about 10 common types of tongs in a whole bunch of different sizes. I am interested in the opinion of what 2 pair you would select to be used with a variety of stock that a beginner can learn the most with. Phil I know I am coming in late to the conversation, but have a look here.Polar Bear Forge he has laser cut tong kits that you just need to do some final shaping, slitting, or other minor work for $8,& $10 he posts on the armourarchive a bit, he may be here as well, but I couldn't tell you Edited November 1, 2009 by russell_smith93 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sask Mark Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 YouTube - Forging Blacksmith Tongs This seems like a pretty good tutorial on making your own tongs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finnr Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 I have seen and handled the Polar Bear tongs blanks. Jamie has a very good item there. Finnr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted November 6, 2009 Author Share Posted November 6, 2009 I ordered OC gooseneck v-bit tongs (1/2 inch x 16 inch), tong clip, and an anvil devil. I've been trying to draw up a set of plans for wolfjaw tongs to estimate my stock needed. Using volume gets boggeling on paper, due in part that I haven't found my drafting tools again (I know where the T square is at least, but nothing else) Moving sucks, and that was a year ago! I think I have a plan to work from, but I want to see a proper set of tongs before I start this time. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firegnome Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 Before I could make tongs I would go to the local junk shops and watch ebay for large old tongs like foundry's used long handles large sizes jaws. I would buy them cheap and re form them and re rivet them they would work great and I would have lots of rein stock left over from cutting off the 5 ft ends to 2 footers. Here in Maine we have Liberty tool and die who buys bulk tools lots from failed bussiness all over the US so they have a good supply. This allowed me to reform some cool tongs. Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Lumpkins Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 The first thing I made when I got into this , Was a pair of tongs, They weren't pretty but worked for a little while, the second pair was a little better , I think I've made around five pairs so far, and the ones that I favor look terrible, But work pretty darn good.. Once I finaly relized that both sides are the same, and Started making them together instead of making one side and then the other It worked out pretty darn good. I agree with other's.. "don't buy your tools make um" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polarbearforge Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 I know I am coming in late to the conversation, but have a look here.Polar Bear Forge he has laser cut tong kits that you just need to do some final shaping, slitting, or other minor work for $8,& $10 he posts on the armourarchive a bit, he may be here as well, but I couldn't tell you Yep, I am here, too. I wondered why I suddenly got a lot of questions about tong blanks. When I first started forging, I bought some tongs, but of course they weren't quite what I needed. I really didn't like forging tongs, I was more interested in being a bladesmith than a blacksmith. After one gathering, we watched Bill Epp's video on making tongs. One of the methods shown, was to start with flat stock, and forge a divot in a couple spots. Draw out one side for the reigns and twist the other side for the jaw. Put a hole in the middle, shape and rivet. As I was driving home, I couldn't help but think that I could cut a flat pattern on the laser. So I designed it and played with it, and came up with the regular tong blank as well as a bolt tong blank. I'll be the first to admit that these aren't for everybody. Some people can forge a pair of tongs from round stock as fast as I can from my tong blanks. I shared them for a couple reasons. I know there are others who need tongs but don't like to make them. They work really well for beginners. There's enough material in the handle and bit that it can be cut down as the need arises, yet they're beefy enough to handle a lot of abuse. Also, if I'm forging, I'd really rather forge blades or axes than tongs. (Personal preference, your mileage may vary). Jamie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckster2.0 Posted November 8, 2009 Share Posted November 8, 2009 There are only a few blue prints on tong making in the tutorials but I think there needs to be a whole bunch of links to tutorials on how to make tongs. While I just ordered gs flat tongs, I still think that making tongs is a valuable skill to have and will improve your forging prowess. If you can make good looking, functional tongs, what else can you make? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted November 8, 2009 Author Share Posted November 8, 2009 I have been thinking, Grant can probably smell the smoke coming out of my ears. Maybe Frosty too. I bought a piece of 3ft long 1x1/2 inch hot roll some time ago. If I mark at 5 and 6 1/2 inches from the end, draw down to 1 x 3/8 x 2, and then taper to the end finishing as 3/8 round, I would have about 16-18 inches of handle, depending on how much I burn away, and how far I taper out till round. I then cut off leaving 2 inches of original dimension material. I repeat the drawing procedure, but do not cut off the tong half, instead I let cool attached. Once cool, I mark the "raw" end the same as the first, and draw it out and cut it off at the same length. I then draw another out of the remaining metal. Now I have a set of blanks ready to have a square, box or wolf jaw forged into it, drilled or punched and assembled with nut and bolt or rivet. I also have a set of blanks with extra metal to make a different jaw type on, left connected to each other. End result is tongs, 2 pair, that do not require tongs to make. I found my drawing kit but have not drawn pretty pictures to scale or developed a procedure for making a jaw the shape I want. I did rough calculation based on volume method and making square or trapezoidal sections, I figured loss to scale would account for the corners and then some. I have read using 10% loss to scale for estimating stock usage. Yes, they are big and thick and heavy, and I have only made one pair of tongs that are thin, wimpy and will break in the hinge soon. I am shooting for no section less than 3/8 of an inch in the minor dimension for strength and durability. If my math is off it is because my notebook is in the garage and I am not. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russell_smith93 Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 Yep, I am here, too. I wondered why I suddenly got a lot of questions about tong blanks. yup, you can blame me Sha-ul btw I have passed your site onto the local black smithing club for southern Ks as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted November 9, 2009 Author Share Posted November 9, 2009 I changed my order slightly. I drew out the first rein (1/2 tongs) today and I will leave it attached and draw the other 3 off the other end. This way when I get to the last one I have a cool handle (the first rein) to hang onto. I also read some about dressing hammer heads and filed my hammer face to a more ball shape. My surface finish is much better now. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted November 9, 2009 Author Share Posted November 9, 2009 The OCP tongs I ordered showed up today. They are trim and svelte where my tongs are like brick outhouses. Is there that much difference between 1045 and a36 that makes OCP tongs so lightweight? The first set I made have a hinge not much thinner than the OCP tongs, and that pair is cracking in the hinge area. I am not finding published yield or tensile strengths online easily and I am unable to get to my textbooks right now to look them up. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted November 9, 2009 Author Share Posted November 9, 2009 found it on Speedy metals: yield and ultimate strengths a36 is 36,000 psi yield and 58,000 to 80,000 psi ultimate 1045 is 85,000 psi yield and 100,000 psi ultimate so 1045 is roughly 2x as strong as a36, so the section sizes I am choosing are reasonable for the material I am using. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avadon Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 I found these tongs to be worth the money:eBay Store - Poor Boy Blacksmith Tools: Category 1 He sells other things, what I found is that if it is welded and you hit it with a hammer, it will break (fullers, guilotine tool) but I do not hit my tongs with a hammer, so they work fine. Doug lol @ a blacksmith outfitter who weld-fabricates his tongs... You gotta see the humor in this!! lol... well I guess whatever works right? Maybe it's just more cost productive for him to cut pieces and weld them. Still I wonder what kind of audience he thinks he has that fabbed tongs are going to be better then smithed. Beginning Blacksmith Tongs Starter Set Round Square Odd - eBay (item 380174050465 end time Nov-12-09 14:38:45 PST) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urnesBeast Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Since I pointed to him, I feel the need to stand up for his buisness. He never claims better. He claims cheaper. Look how many people come on here as newbies unable to draw a taper (yet) and look at his sales numbers. A year ago, as a new smith, I did the math and thought them worth the money. A year later, I find that polar bear blanks are a better deal. A year from now??? - doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fat pete Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 i was taught to make tongs by forge weding the reigns to the tongs....still have a hard time doing it...bbut i got some laser cuts like that and the work well you ruff em up a little ...round the handles and shape um a little and they are ffine ....i also go to glenn GS tongs he does well and its easy.... i find lots of em at local sales a nd stuff way cheap....10 bucks and i got a real nice atha pair of bolt tongs great for billets Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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