urnesBeast Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 This #325 monster is more than two of us can really lift. I had to take it up some stairs, we had to lift it one stair at a time. That was about 9 inches. I figure the anvil stand will be more like two feet up or so. How do you lift a monster like this? I think that I can tie into my roof beams through the drywall with these:3/8 In. x 4-1/2 In. Stainless Steel Screw EyeboltBolt Name : Eye 325 lbs. safe working load Use with rope up to 7/8 in. Will not rust when exposed to the elements I figure I put two or more of these in two or more roof beams, put a rod through them, get a come-along and chains. This should get me the vertical lift I need. Had I thought farther ahead, I would have drilled all the way through the roof beams and bolted and washered through them. That is not an option now, I have only blind beams to go into. My contractor says the beams are plenty strong for this application. One eyebolt is rated for this weight, so I figure two or more should be more than sufficient for what I assume is going to be about two minutes of loading. Do you find uses for a sky hook like this for other applications in the smithy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecelticforge Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 I rented an engine block lift. It was on wheels and I could move it around with ease. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urnesBeast Posted August 24, 2009 Author Share Posted August 24, 2009 Che, Honestly, even in this economic environment, I have had a difficult time finding cheap labor. With the new construction, I have a dumpster so I am cleaning out the basement. You would think someone would want to carry loads of light wood up from the basement for some quick cash. In the ads I put out, I do not even put a labor rate. So it is not like I am offering too little. nothing. -Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 DANGER look at the loading factors from using two points separated! or for an example: drive your vehicle about 20' from a tree. Tie a rope from it's bumper to the tree. Grab the rope at the midpoint and pull it sideways and see how much effort it takes to move your parked vehicle! I usually use: inclined plane, rollers, pulleys, comealong or enginehoist to move anvils. To lift my main shop anvil I used two lolly columns helping to support the shop truss with a heavy strip of steel between them and then used a chain around the truss and strip to fasten a comealong to---it's a 500# anvil! We used a 600# capacity engine hoist to get it into the truck when I bought it> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonteCristo Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 I'd think an engine hoist or a real mechanics jack if you have one would be ideal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewOC Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 (edited) I like Thomas' idea of putting a sling around a beam rather than drilling holes that weaken. Another safety measure i've used is props under your beam either side of the lift zone. This is great, i've been looking for an excuse to post this youtube clip; 'Building Stonehenge - This Man can Move Anything' (cut and paste title into Youtube). Wally Wallington has done some really impressive experiments. stay safe. Andrew O'C ok here is direct link Edited August 24, 2009 by AndrewOC found link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 The big problems with using an eye bolt is that you are pulling against a single truss and they are engineered for top loading. No consideration was ever made for bottom pull loading. Lifting is easy, use simple machines. We moved a 500 object up a flight of outside stairs using a board to skid on and a block and tackle. (incline) You can do the same thing with your anvil by putting a strong enough board from the anvil stand to the ground and walking or sliding the anvil up the incline. You can rock the anvil end to end and crib under the open space. This will raise the anvil up slowly and with little effort. You only have a couple feet of elevation needed so it can go quickly. A tripod and a come-a-long has been used more then once to pull an engine out of a vehicle. Anchor the feet (chain them together) so they do not move. Lift the anvil and move the anvil stand under the anvil, and lower the anvil. Think lever and fulcrum. Build up cribbing, and set a board on the top of the cribbing. Tie the anvil to the board at some point close to the cribbing. Now go to the other end of the board and lift. Crib under the anvil and repeat the process till you have enough elevation on the anvil. The same thing can be done if you tie the anvil to the board and crib under both ends of the board. Lift one end of the board and crib up. Lift the other end of the board and crib up. Repeat as needed till you have the needed height under the anvil. You can make two stacks of cribbing, and span the distance. Attach to the span with a come-a-long and lift the anvil straight up. If you do not build a box, then you do not have to think outside the box. Unshackled your mind, let your imagination run free, and solve the problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Ameling Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 I've moved lots of heavy objects using cribbing, jacks, and a come-a-long ... all the way up to full 20x20 buildings. First think of safety - if it should fall for any reason, or for "pinch points" on ropes/chains/cable. It is amazing what you can do with stacks of small thickness cribbing. Just lift one end up and put another board under. Then do the same for the other side. But stack them up CAREFULLY. And if lifting one end is too much, just put a jack under it - like a high-lift farm/utility jack. Simple, basic, and fast. You will be amazed at how fast you get that anvil up level with your stand. Then put a couple shorter bars between your stand and cribbing, and slide it over. Screwing eyebolts into beams can work, but one BIG problem. If those eye bolts are just screwed into the beam, then everything is being supported by the threads in the wood. It is far easier to strip out those threads through the wood than many people think. If you are using eye bolts, they need to be bolted through the beam - with larger washers on the other side. One other quick option for using a hoist from the beams: Use a couple U straps to bolt a thick bar to several beams. The U straps will spread the strain up to several points through the beams, and bolting that bar to several beams will spread the total weight over several beams. A 1 inch thick bar anchored to 3 or 4 beams will greatly reduce the strain on any one point. Thick walled pipe would also work. My first choice would be stacks of 2x boards for cribbing, and "walking" the anvil up till high enough. Then either slide the stand underneath and "walk" it down by removing cribbing, or swing it one end at a time over onto the stand. If you want lots of clearance around and below the anvil when raising/lowering it, tie a couple 4x4's to the top of the anvil, and put your cribbing under them out far enough from the anvil. Keep it simple --- and safe. Mikey - that grumpy ol' German blacksmith out in the Hinterlands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragons lair Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 Used a stout 2X6 spanning 4 rafters. Hole in the middle. Welded eye bolt. Pulled many a V-8 with it. Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sask Mark Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 Eat more Wheaties.:D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urnesBeast Posted August 24, 2009 Author Share Posted August 24, 2009 DANGER look at the loading factors from using two points separated! or for an example: drive your vehicle about 20' from a tree. Tie a rope from it's bumper to the tree. Grab the rope at the midpoint and pull it sideways and see how much effort it takes to move your parked vehicle! I did not say it in my post, but I was going to run a rigid bar between them so the load is straight down on each of them. Thanks for the reminder though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urnesBeast Posted August 24, 2009 Author Share Posted August 24, 2009 I've been looking for an excuse to post this youtube clip; 'Building Stonehenge - This Man can Move Anything' (cut and paste title into Youtube). Wally Wallington has done some really impressive experiments. YouTube - Building Stonehenge - This Man can Move Anything This is brilliant. I am doing the lift this way just for the experience of it. Thanks! I think I will order his video some time! Perfect, Thanks Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urnesBeast Posted August 24, 2009 Author Share Posted August 24, 2009 Many of these ideas are good, if I had open beams. There is drywall covering everything, so I can not strap around the beams or drill all the way through and put in washers. Thanks for the advice. When all is done, I will make a list of things I should have done for a new construction smithy. I think putting some overhead Eye bolts exposed above the anvil area would have been good. I think to remedy this, I can put a beam over the drywall (actually under since it is the ceiling!) bolted to several joists. I can easily pre-install the washered eyebolts in this. I am sure a good ceiling hook will have many uses. Though these ways of lifting the anvil with cribbing and such seem like a fun learning exercise so I might not install the ceiling hook for the come-along. Thanks, Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urnesBeast Posted August 24, 2009 Author Share Posted August 24, 2009 The cribbing idea is brilliant. I just used five Harry Potter books and lifted the anvil up six inches (or five stories! ha ha). The anvil is long enough to tilt back on the horn, then the heel easily. Strap a 2x4 on to the top for some real leverage add some cribbing and I will have this thing up in no time. Thanks again. I have no idea why I find this so exciting... Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 With lots of cribbing and a lever I have loaded a triphammer into my truck by my self! One of the things that really hurt when I had to move to NM was giving up a 15 year collection of cribbing and so not having any here to work with. (when I think of screw eyes I don't usually think of them as having eyes large enough that a good sized rod for supporting 300+# from the middle would fit through them---too big a screw thickness and they degrade the strength of the piece of wood they are in. Good to know you are aware of the vector issues with flexible lifting materials!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urnesBeast Posted August 25, 2009 Author Share Posted August 25, 2009 (when I think of screw eyes I don't usually think of them as having eyes large enough that a good sized rod for supporting 300+# from the middle would fit through them--- Ah yes! Does anyone know how to make an s hook for this application? -Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 Bend the hot metal around the part holding the hook. Exact fit. I have made several that fit across and around the beams in a barn. You can form a loop and forge weld it back to the parent stock on both ends, looks like a dog bone when finished. line up several and run a pipe through the rings above the beams so the weight is supported by several beams. Then run a second pipe (solid round) through the lower rings. From the side this would look like a ladder, half above the beams, half below, with the rungs a connectors. Use the lower pipe (solid round) as the anchor point. Just be sure not to pull the roof into the basement. (grin) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragons lair Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 cribbing works ok I have pulled MGB motors and trans one 2x4 at a time alone. Not recomended. If sompthing screws up you are toast if alone. Have someone there at least they can call for help. We sure get smarter as we get older. Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGGUNDOCTOR Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 Keep it simple. Lay a board across the top and attach it to the anvil. Make it long enough so 4 people can get on it , and lift it up. With 4 guys each is only lifting just over 81#. If you have to do this yourself and the anvil is bolted, or otherwise attached to the stand, flip the anvil upside down, and attach the base. Push it over, and get a floorjack under one end. Lift it as high as you can, then lever it over onto its feet. That is similar to how I uprighted one 306# anvil I have. Difference was I ran a come-along to a trailer to lift it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 I had a smithing meeting once where the end of the meeting was putting rod through both hardies of my big new anvil and having everyone gather round and move it into the forge building...(it was the 515# one) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forgemaster Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 Cribbing packing and jacking is the way we normally uninstall hammers. The last one I brought was a 5cwt massey weighed in at about 5 tons plus the anvil at 2.5 tons. 3 of us had to jack the hammer up about 3 feet in the air by walking it up with packing using jacks, then slide/roll it about 9 feet lengthways, the walk it back down to the floory, we went about 3" at a time. One of the blokes helping me was an underground coal mine fitter, you can't get a 100 ton crane 4 or 5 miles underground in a coal mine so you have to use jacks, chain blocks, pull lifts etc. He tells me they used to regularly move and relocate machinery up to about 180 tons using this sort of method, so an anvil should cause no problems. As your cribbing gets higher it pays to pigstye it, pigstyeing makes the whole thing more stable. Just remember to take your time and think before you do something. Cheers Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuartashers Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 (edited) my ol man was a striker at the Preston board of works depo recently clear lifted a 280 lb anvil 3 1/2 feet I guess we build em tough in oz . I've hand lowered it clear 3 feet on my own I guess I have to use a bigger sledge to beef up a little to do a lift like that. Edited August 28, 2009 by stuartashers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimkb8tbi Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 This is great. Just got into the house after trying to unload a 1/8 inch sheet of steel 4'x8' out of my trailer. got it up to the top of the trailer before I quit. Now have to move it 8 feet laterally to put on top of a frame. Lots of good ideas. Thanks, to all. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rainman Posted September 7, 2009 Share Posted September 7, 2009 What does it mean to pigsty the cribbing? Ive done something similar to lift a tractor to change tires using only the 3pt hydraulic lift, a bottle jack and cinder blocks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blafen Posted September 7, 2009 Share Posted September 7, 2009 work out more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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