Ted T Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 I have to confess! Many times when people have asked questions I am guilty of quickly sending them off to an old established topic thread that contains the information that was ask for, in a very impersonal manner. The main reason I have referred a newer member to an old thread topic in the past is not to avoid the hassle of answering a question that may be as old as the hills, but only because the issue has been covered already in such an excellent manner by a well informed Blacksmith that I could not do the topic justice by trying to give a new answer. The reason I say I am guilty is due to the Idea that after thinking it over, I feel the person asking the question needs, and deserves a personal recognition here at I Forge Iron along with a well thought out answer, and then coupled with the reference to the old tried and true thread if need be. There is a very important social aspect that will be lost if we become un-willing to give personal attention to everybody who helps make this wonderful site work. I believe the personal contact and the resultant interaction with members is what sets apart I forge Iron differently than just reading a book! Even, if it seems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beth Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 well said ted - the personal touch is much appreciated - if i am refered to an old thread i understand the reason, but it can make you feel like your questions are not very relevent - when actually anyones questions are very relevent to them! Mostly every response on here is personal and tailor made for the level of the question which is the only way to respond in my opinion, and shows a friendly generous open mind:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unkle spike Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 Can we not have a sticky generated for the forums "New Blacksmiths start here" or something to that effect with links to our most popular topics? It seems they hit the forums, before hitting the blueprints or using "search". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted T Posted July 21, 2009 Author Share Posted July 21, 2009 I think you are right unkle spike. They seem to want to start with the forums. And that is what made me think that they must want some socializing as much as they want to learn about blacksmithing. Sometime we do not know what problems or situations lurk behind any one person when they come aboard, and this is a good way for them to find some meaning. I am suspect that they want to feel like they are a part of the group as soon as possible, and that is why I think it is important to include a personal acknowledgement of their posts. Please understand that this is just my view, not necessarily an accurate assessment of the situation. Discussion is a good thing, thanks! Ted Throckmorton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yesteryearforge Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 RIGHT ON TED Mike Tanner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 (edited) Funny as most the time I am referring new knife makers to the knife sticky as that is the start point for knife making. Either I post the same 4 pages of information to every one that asks, which IS why I made them a sticky in the first place, Or I get complaints that a 2 line answer cant answer the question they asked. They have no idea that metallurgy is a 4 to 8 year college degree, that cant be explained to beginners in a few lines of text. So it is now a lose-lose situation as I even had a member accuse me of not being willing to share my information with others! Selfish is the word he used, but maybe that has another meaning where he lives in the UK than here in the states? I have never seen his posts too often in the forums nor has he ever shown up at any of the knife chats to try to teach or partake in any way during the year and a half I have overseen this, since the beginning in fact, I have only missed 2 days since it began, maybe he was here those 2 times hmmm. Where are the other 10,000 members when all the new members ask the questions, and why blame those of us that do give to this forum when we send them to posted information we spent many hours preparing and editing, verifying and are still updating for them to have this information, if many wont read them, but demand a personal touch, do they really want to know? Edited July 22, 2009 by steve sells Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragons lair Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 Unfourtunatly most of the younger generation has been raised to demand/expect the answer/information to be given right now.My own included(EX wife raised them). We older 62+ folks had to learn from the school of hard knocks. Yoda had it right "Do or not Do, there is no try". Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted T Posted July 22, 2009 Author Share Posted July 22, 2009 If I was to treat folks the way I was treated as a boy and a young man while learning the craft of blacksmithing, most people now days would not last for long. They would put me in jail if I did. I had no choice because that was how it was in those days that Dragons lair is talking about as a rule of thumb, because in the 30 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Hale Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 Let me chime in here, I do refer new folks by directing them to parts of this site that I know has exactly the answers that will be of help them have a good experience that they can print out and save or just ignore. I know about the new ways younger folks learn and to me it spells a great change for the better. I have a little bit of knowledge in some specific areas. Over the years this site has had some really well written pieces on a lot of different areas and if I did not direct folks to those articles it would not be in their best interest and I would feel I was short changing them with a few thoughts that would not do the question justice. Really often some one posts a question in a thread that has been literally answered a day or two before. I can only expect those folks would not use any of the information I could direct them to. Reference material simply does not work for them. However some folks do seek out any information all over this and other sites on the net and soak up knowledge that will help them gain and keep knowledge. One of the bright spots of this site is when someone seeks information and they find it here. As that happens and they do use the site I see the members all gather around and help them learn. I am proud to be a part of that. I do have a pet peeve and that is when someone asks or answers questions about items that are completely above a starting point given the skills, abilities and equipment they have. For me if I have nothing to add to a thread that is of value I stay away from it. I will suggest that some of the items are a bit too far advanced for the present time and make a reference or suggestion on how to proceed. There is a huge brain trust on here and all of it is not limited to the older members. There are times when someone new comes in and they have great information in an area they are familiar with. That makes this even stronger as a site for knowledge. I will continue to direct to reference data that is here now and the material that we have not seen yet. It always grows and I try and grow with it. I do not expect most of the new folks use that material but for those that do they will benefit greatly. One thing that is hard to get past is at times folks do not have enough knowledge to ask questions that I for one can use to figure out just what they wanting to know. If we were face to face we could work that out but in a thread in a forum it may take several Q and A's to sort it out. That can work if we take the time and not get off on rabbit trails. I drive a Chevy and drink Pepsi, not everyone does........... . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerkid Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 Ok here is my take on the problem of total beginers asking a question that has been posted and talked about multiple times before, I think you should do your research (ie use the Search feature on IFI or even possibly google ) before you post a question if you are not going to read the getting started section. As menitonted in another posting in this thread , my generation is use to getting answers handed to ourselves instead of trying to find the answer for ourselves. But now that is my .02 cents worth. ,Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rthibeau Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 the parents have done their children a disservice by not teaching them how to find their own answers, those children will need to learn it on their own to truly succeed in this world once the handouts stop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 Well said Ted and Rich you both make good points. As usual there are pluses and minuses to everything including the instant gratification generation. Yeah, like we ALL wouldn't be part of it whole heartedly if we hadn't grown up in somewhat slower times. Anyway, sending someone off to a thread where their question has already been addressed is just fine, all you have to do is tell them what and why you're doing it in a reasonably nice manner. If that causes a person heartburn (and we've all seen THAT happen) then they should probably look for a less skilled craft to practice. I have no problem referring a person to someone better qualified, I just say why. Younger folk are less patient, I sure was. Younger folk also learn faster and young folk now learn even faster than we did when we were young folk. So, if a kid (no disrespect) wants the whole enchelada in one fell swoop and can handle the bandwidth more power to him/er. I've had the supreme pleasure of having a young lady student a few years ago who picked up smithing like I pick up a donut, she learned as much in four sessions as most folk learn in months. Not only that but she made a number of well thought out suggestions some of which work better than what I was doing. Anyway, my dos centavos are. Sometimes the best answer is found in another thread or another site or a book, or. . . What's the big deal about telling the questioner so? So long as we don't dismiss, disrespect, mock, etc. them while we refer them elsewhere any problem is theirs. Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratel10mm Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 Well considered posts everyone. I think perhaps another problem with new folk is that they may well be new to forums as well, and not understand the etiquette(sp?), so they just butt in & ask their question. It happens on every forum I visit. And I've noticed that you even get members who've been around a while asking (usually) off topic questions without doing a search first! Sometimes the question you want to ask doesn't seem to fit with any of the existing posts. I found that yesterday, hence my post about naming my forge. Someone will probably think the subject's been covered, perhaps in the thread about Forge Names. As for referring people to the posts, etc. I will do, and I appreciate it when I am so directed. But I feel awkward about sending the 'I want to make a sword' guys to Don Fogg's, British Blades, Bladeforums, etc. It's like I'm being disrespectful to the members here. Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fe-Wood Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 Well. I guess I'll add my .02 cents- Been here for... not so long. As a result, I have gained an amount of knowledge I can truly not quantify. THANKS TO ALL OF YOU who answer my questions...some good some bad but then I've been told there are no bad questions...only bad answers. I've looked through old threads and the blueprints for hours. But asking questions on this forum has a more personal aspect than roat(sp) research. I have to think Tom hit it, at least he did in my case. I live in a small town, not many local smiths to talk to (grumpy old men mostly). Smithing these days seems to be a social thing to some degree. I think some of the new people asking questions are trying to connect. Some how they got interested. They want to learn more. How long can one look at youtube watching steel get smashed without a least asking one question, bad or good. (I do have to agree, it gets a little old to hear a high school kid ask how to build a sword over and over) One good thing about questions from new members, is they can bring a perspective of the day to the question and cause people who have been doing the same thing the same way for 30 years to re-examine what and how they do what they do. As long as it is a well crafted and thought out question. I think Frosty got that one... To me, thats the juice of knowledge! OK, I think I said what I wanted, I just hope I made the point I was trying too... Keep asking and keep answering. Otherwise it dies on the vine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fe-Wood Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 Ah, I just have one more thing to add:) I'm wondering if new members realize how vast and well covered so many specific aspects of metalsmithing are on this site. Also, before the internet, when one set out to learn something new... the first thing one did was ask questions of teachers or those in the know. Then it off to the library or other referance. Its hard to look something up if you don't know the lingo.... OK, Thats it;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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