urnesBeast Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 (edited) Everyone, I woke up to bright sunshine in my face at 1:30am this morning. I thought, "Gee, I don't feel refreshed." I look out to see my smithy on fire. I called 911, and had the fire trucks here a minute or two later. Complete loss of the structure, only the anvil was left standing. I think it is still warm. Lessons learned: I stored my propane tanks outside. The fire department appreciated this. I knew the exact locations and amounts of fuel in the area. The smithy was a standalone building, with proper setbacks. Minimal damage to my house and the neighbors on two sides. Questions: An insurance adjuster followed the firetrucks in. He wants 10% of the check if he works with me. It sounds like a good deal. I suspect that one false step with the insurance company and things do not go my direction. Is the anvil still good, or did it lose its heat treatment? Hammers, etc... Any advice? Edited April 16, 2009 by urnesBeast Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j.w.s. Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 Sorry about your loss. Kinda strange how an insurance adjuster followed the fire trucks in, I take it they're taking over for the lawyers now? As for the anvil, I think that would depend on the heat generated in the fire, its proximity to it and the amount of time, wouldn't it? Hopefully someone else will have better insight. Of course you could just not take a chance, call it scrapped and have the insurance company replace it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flaming S Forge Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 Beware of that insurance adjuster. He sounds to me like a vulture. I was an insurance agent for 11 years and never heard of such a practice by an adjuster. You have a contract with your insurance company to be paid for your loss. The Company itself has either their own salaried adjusters or else send an independant adjuster to settle the claim. None of my clients ever had to find their own adjuster and pay them a commission kickback. Sounds like a scam to me unless your state has some different laws than mine. Call your agent for more information. Good luck and sorry about your loss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unkle spike Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 I would avoid the insurance adjuster that followed the firetrucks at all cost, as others have said, your insurance company will send an adjuster, then you negotiate from there. Sorry for you loss, hope it all works out for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Einhorn Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 Very sorry for your loss. The "insurance adjuster" sounds like a scam, never heard of a person having to find their own adjuster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterDE4 Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 The only way you can get what you're entitled to and the public adjuster gets his cut is if he inflates the claim, which is going to throw up a red flag to your insurance company. If you think that you're being treated unfairly by your insurance company, you can always solicit assistance at that time. Good luck, and I hope you get to rebuild quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisB Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 Call your insurance company and file a claim. That guy is a scammer and your insuarnce company will know that right away and label you as trying to rip them off. At that point they will work hard to find any excuse to not pay out. I hope you didnt sign anything or give that guy information that he can use. Call your insurance company now. Be prepared to tell the "story" about three or four times to different people. It will be recorded every time and they are going to compare to see if it's changing as you tell it (sign of a lie). So writing down the events and reading what happened every time you have to tell it will go a long way in speeding things along. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andgott Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 Dealing with insurance companies has to be the biggest PIA in the world... Just go in to it knowing that they are going to try to get out of this by paying you as little as possible, and you will probably have to fight to squeeze every penny you can out of them. Hopefully, You have a complete inventory of all the items that were in there- And even better if you have photos to back that claim. After my last dealings with insurance, I made SURE I was thorough with this, Recording what I have, where I have it, Serial #'s and any other applicable info, as well as what I paid and what it was worth. You'll find that the Insurance companies will have an entirely different idea of what your 'stuff' is worth than you- For instance- A 6' x 12' enclosed box trailer, which cost me about $3500, was totaled in an accident about 30 hours after I drove off the lot. The adjuster for the 'other' parties insurance claimed a depreciation of almost 50% since it was a 'used' trailer at this point. It took threats of a lawsuit and calls to a lawyer to get a fair settlement, they finally agreed to pay full price. THAT whole 'incident' isn't even settled yet, though- Such a mess. Make sure that you have something to back your claimed values- Though It might be a little tough with some of your old tools. Even printing final auction prices from E-Bay is a great help, it will show the company exactly what it will cost you to replace the tools (and at the often high E-Bay prices you MIGHT do OK!) And- Despite what they might tell you, you do NOT have to 'settle' for what they bring to the table first. If it truly looks fair, then go for it. If not- Tell them so. You paid for insurance, and they took a risk. It didn't pay off for them this time, and they are obligated to pay you, though they don't like it. They WANT to pay you as little as they can, and they WILL try to lowball you, if you let them! Remember, the magic "L" word (lawyer) helps a lot, too... Just the threat of having to deal with an attorney often makes them weak in the knees and suddenly changes their attitudes. You might have to actually use one, too- Often, the expense is well worth it. Can you tell I am a bit jaded about insurance companies? Hmm... Must have happened to me when I lived in Hurricane country in Florida -Andrew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnptc Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 sorry for your loss to sum up the above 1) call your insurance agent and begin the process 2) settle when you think their offer is fair or use the L word Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 (edited) Now for something compleatly different: A student of mine lived in "college town" near a major University and bought renter's insurance that had a replacement clause. When his equipment got stolen the poor adjuster came to him saying "anvils, where do I get anvils?" So my friend handed him the Centaur Forge Catalog. What was stolen were beaten up farm anvils that they replaced with Peddinghaus forged steel anvils. To rub it in I got to sign the affidavit that he actually had owned the equipment and it had been stolen; both true. Buying it all commercially probably was cheaper for the insurance company as they would have to pay for peoples time hunting stuff; but I still lust after that anvil a bit... My current smithy has no wood in it's construction; not a single piece. The extension however will have 4 utility poles and some recycled stable doors. My previous smithy burned down mysteriously several months after I had moved away---15 years of me smithing in an old frame structure with leaves piled in the corners with never a fire anfd then the new owner moves in and poof! Edited April 16, 2009 by ThomasPowers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortdog Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 Wait a minute! What if I called my insurance company and told them that just my anvil and several pairs of tongs and a couple of really nice hammers burned? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 That really sucks, at least nobody was hurt and no other property was damaged including yours. Take a file to the face of your anvil, if it cuts easily it'll probably need heat treating. Get as much info from the "adjuster" a card at least. Check him out with your insurance company and if it turns out he isn't legit turn it in to their fraud department. maybe give duplicate info to the attorney general's office. It might score you some brownie points and ease the claims. Don't count on it though. Best of luck. Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flaming S Forge Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 Your deductible might be high enough that your company won't have to pay you one cent if you only have a small claiim. If you have any problems, each state has an insurance commission. Call your state commission and ask to talk to a complaint specialist. Probably can do it online also. That's some advice if your company gives you a runaround. Companies do not like to be investigated by the insurance commission. If your policy has a replacement cost clause, they will have to pay current new price without any depreciation. Call your agent and get the facts for your own protection. Guess why I am no longer an agent. I got tired of the games they wanted to play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodge Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 Everyone, Questions: An insurance adjuster followed the firetrucks in. He wants 10% of the check if he works with me. It sounds like a good deal. I suspect that one false step with the insurance company and things do not go my direction. Any advice? Very sorry for your loss. Adjuster guy sounds fishy. I thought adjusters worked for the insurance company. Don't they pay him? Why would he have any claim on your loss? Ask you agent before you sign anything!!! Furthermore, as has been mentioned, if "adjuster" turns out to be dirty, turn him in! There are enough thieves DBA as it is ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWooldridge Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 You can re-heat treat an anvil - I've done a few. It can be done in a wood fire if you have nothing else, although I built a long custom firebox to hold coal. I can provide more detailed instructions if you go that route. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfshieldrx Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 WEYGERS, ALEXANDER G. "The Complete Blacksmith" Great book...has a section on tempering a railroad rail anvil. Should apply to "real" anvil too? bart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fe-Wood Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 You may want to check your anvil for cracks as I'm sure they hit it with water while putting out the fire... Sorry for your loss:( Hope fro a speedy recovery:) Run from the insurance guy. Anyone who comes up on scene un-solicited using scair tactics is a scammer.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urnesBeast Posted April 17, 2009 Author Share Posted April 17, 2009 That is an excellent point, I am not able to get into to inspect anything right now. Once the insurance guy arrive, we can go look through the wreckage. An ex-cop was telling me that this was an exceptionally hot fire, so the temperature shock you mention is a real danger. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 Short Dog; if it was untrue then you would be a liar and a thief. Certainly not welcome round my shop! Also if your policy didn't cover replacement then you'd be out of luck as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cool Hand Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 Are you sure the adjuster didn't start the fire? He was conveniently there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urnesBeast Posted April 17, 2009 Author Share Posted April 17, 2009 He could not have started it because I was wearing my tin foil hat that night. And yes, I had forged my tin foil cap with the shiny side out (beware, it DOES NOT WORK the other way!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Falcon 72 Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 You can re-heat treat an anvil - I've done a few. It can be done in a wood fire if you have nothing else, although I built a long custom firebox to hold coal. I can provide more detailed instructions if you go that route. Can you post those instructions as a blueprint or in a new thread? That sounds like great information. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oak Hill Forge Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 Keep us posted on how the insurance company treats you. There have been previous posts saying their policies wouldn't cover structures used for forging or welding. If you don't get satisfaction, don't foget to let us know so we can avoid giving them our business. I hope you don't have to get into the lawyer thing. We did with a dog mauling situation with our daughter who was 6 at the time, Unfortunately 99% of the lawyers give the rest of them a bad name. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reid Neilsen Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 Dang man - thats everybody's nightmare. Very sorry. I agree that I'd call your own homeowners insurace company and see what should be done. Dont ever trust an "ambulance chaser"... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Ameling Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 That "insurance adjuster" that followed the fire trucks is a scammer! Report him to your insurance company and the police. Yes, check that insurance policy for a "replacement" clause. Otherwise you will just get the check and have to do all the chasing about to find replacements for your anvil and tools. But also check your policy. Many "home owners" policies do not cover shops/tools - especially if you "charge" for things. That would require a "business" insurance policy. A friend had a small fire in his attached garage after welding something for a friend of his. The first question asked by the insurance man was ... if he had charged his friend for the welding. He said no, he just did it to help his friend. If he would have said yes, none of his claim would have been covered under his normal household insurance policy. Once you "charge" or "sell" something, the shop part shifts over to being viewed as a "business". Historical note: A friend did his Doctorial Thesis on the early blacksmith shops of Wisconsin - part of an art/history/museum program. So he researched all the early blacksmith shops he could find to write about. And along the way he found out that MOST burnt down at some point - some several times. So when he planned out his blacksmith shop, he "planned" that it might burn down at some point in the future - well distanced from his home/vehicles/family. And also well accessible for the fire department. He never did have a fire, but still planned for the possibility. My shop has very little in it that might burn, and it is separated from all other buildings. Plus the couple plastic and canvas tarps that make up its sides would not generate enough heat to damage the temper on the tools inside. Mikey - that grumpy ol' German blacksmith out in the Hinterlands Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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