WillyP Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 CONGRATS!! I too am awaiting the triumph of the First Forge Weld I've begun trying at least a couple times each I've got the forge burning. In the past I have definately not had enough heat (not even close). Tonight though I was able to heat my steel a lot hotter than I ever was able before. I changed the burner (gas forge) a little and now I can get a lot more heat. Judging by the posts here, I think that I may have been a little to quick on the draw tonight. I heated the bars (1/2" rounds) till it looked as though they were "sweating" but alas; No Weld! I'm going to take that pointer of making a "pointed" rod as a check. Thanks for the Post... It's helped me for sure. Willy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Browne Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 Willy, On half inch get the rod up to temperature, pull it out for a short while so it cools a bit (but only the outside will cool to one shade lower), put it back in and come up to heat, out to cool, back up to heat and you will have the heat right through the rod. Often we concentrate on the colour of the outside and when its right out it comes and away we bang with no results. What we really need is to bring the metal up to temperature slowly to allow the heat to get right through the rod and it will weld MUCH more reliably. Give it a go :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bsiler Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 I watched a pair of tongs being made Saturday. The jaws were welded to the handle. Flux was added while in the fire not wire brushed before added. Taken out at orange heat. A couple pretty good licks then worked until color was gone. It Stuck! I guess an expert smith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBurnson Posted May 15, 2009 Share Posted May 15, 2009 Well, I'm in the same boat, except my fuel ran out, and I'm not gonna buy more for a while... I have a friend who's putting together a propane forge for me, but until that's done, I'm out of a forge. I just burned the last of my charcoal trying to do a faggott weld. I had a hard time keeping my fire hot enough 'cause the ash kept clogging up the blower screen. I'm gonna get some coal in a month or so, but I don't know if that will make a difference in my airflow consistency. I guess if it's got a lot of ash, I'll have the same problem. Anyways, I only have that problem with the charcoal when it's getting down to that last bits and pieces, so we'll see. So I got the weld to stick halfway twice, but I couldn't get it to stick through the wholejoint. I'm assuming it's because I couldn't get the whole joint at the same temperature 'cause I only had a small part of my fire that was hot. So here I sit, eating my ice cream, looking forward to the new forge and new possibilities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shakeypm Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 Wagonmaster, Have you mastered this yet? a trick I was taught was keep the iron high in the fire so you are not oxidizing (Too much air has played havoc on many forge welds), wire two pieces of 1/4 in square stock together bring up to a gentle red, flux (or not) put the iron back to the fire and don't get in a hurry. when the iron gets to a nice yellow bring it out and tap it on the edge of the forge (should stick). tap your iron with a light hammer on the edge of the forge. back to the fire to yellow and to the anvil to shape. This was a lesson to learn to recognize the temperature for welding and to learn not to be to heavy handed. the small stock cools very fast so a trip to the anvil can be just to much cooling. charcoal makes a great welding fire for something this small. but don't get over zealous with the air. the air increases the volume of heat but yellow hot is yellow hot. whether it is in a small area or a large area. you just need enough heat to weld not heat the smithy. I hope this makes sense, Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug C Posted May 17, 2009 Share Posted May 17, 2009 Wagonmaster take a peek at this for some visuals of the process. Also here. Mark Aspery does a good job of describing all this. In one post on the site he mentions that you should not waste your time with a beehive, just get a good deep fire going. Watch the metal and when it gets lost in the fire your ready to go. Check out his youtube video on welding as well. Get it hot, tap it together lightly, bring back to welding temp again and repeat. After a few heats it will withstand heavier blows. Keep at it and you will prevail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WillyP Posted May 17, 2009 Share Posted May 17, 2009 when the iron gets to a nice yellow bring it out and tap it on the edge of the forge (should stick). tap your iron with a light hammer on the edge of the forge. back to the fire to yellow and to the anvil to shape. This was a lesson to learn to recognize the temperature for welding and to learn not to be to heavy handed. the small stock cools very fast so a trip to the anvil can be just to much cooling. You've given me a good idea for sure. I'm using a propane forge made from a 20# Propane Tank; it's on a "cart" made of round tubing. As a stock support at the mouth of the forge I have a RR Switchplate; being an inch thick, and heavy enough to support a decent tap with a hammer, this is where I'll try my initial welding tap. It's close to the fire - so it's hot - and I don't have to turn to the anvil, it's flat and wide - so it's easy to position the stock. Thanks! Willy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MetalMuncher Posted May 17, 2009 Share Posted May 17, 2009 Welding can be tricky. I think fluxing and fire are most important. Flux too cold, or load too much air into the fire and the weld wont happen. Practice practice practice!!! I still need to learn properly, hehehe. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Lumpkins Posted May 17, 2009 Author Share Posted May 17, 2009 Wagonmaster, Have you mastered this yet? a trick I was taught was keep the iron high in the fire so you are not oxidizing (Too much air has played havoc on many forge welds), wire two pieces of 1/4 in square stock together bring up to a gentle red, flux (or not) put the iron back to the fire and don't get in a hurry. when the iron gets to a nice yellow bring it out and tap it on the edge of the forge (should stick). tap your iron with a light hammer on the edge of the forge. back to the fire to yellow and to the anvil to shape. This was a lesson to learn to recognize the temperature for welding and to learn not to be to heavy handed. the small stock cools very fast so a trip to the anvil can be just to much cooling. charcoal makes a great welding fire for something this small. but don't get over zealous with the air. the air increases the volume of heat but yellow hot is yellow hot. whether it is in a small area or a large area. you just need enough heat to weld not heat the smithy. I hope this makes sense, Steve Thanks Steve.for the good advice.. I have been busy doing honey doo's .. But fixen to go out and fire up the forge and see if we can put the advice to use... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Lumpkins Posted May 17, 2009 Author Share Posted May 17, 2009 Doug I took a look and there's some darn good advice in there. Thanks to you and Mark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Lumpkins Posted May 26, 2009 Author Share Posted May 26, 2009 Well I attempted to forge weld again this past weekend and failed.. Ol well sooner or later.. probably a whole lot later.. It'll happen.. The determination is there. We'll try again this coming weekend... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Browne Posted May 26, 2009 Share Posted May 26, 2009 WagonMaster, What sort of weld are you trying? I would go for a simple fagot weld till you can do them in your sleep before trying any other type. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reid Neilsen Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 (edited) Hi Wagonmaster, I learned to forgeweld by making lots of little rings with 3/8 roundstock. I did LOTS of them and once I kind of had a handle on that type of weld/scarfing tequnique, I did some lap welds and some T welds. I know a lot of people like to make their tongs and stuff by drawing down the reins, but I prefer to weld on the reins. I dont have a power hammer so I try to save my arm whenever possible. The type of welding practice I mentioned above makes it possible to do this consistenly. Just practice one technique at a time. I agree that maybe doing some lap welds or even fagot welds is a good first time option. Fagot welds are forgiving becuase you dont have to worry about balancing one piece on an other. They are connected already! Dont worry, its tricky to get the technique right, but once you do, its like riding a bike.You will also get good at recognizing welding heat by color and even almost by "feel". Good luck! Edited May 27, 2009 by Reid Neilsen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Lumpkins Posted May 28, 2009 Author Share Posted May 28, 2009 Thanks for all the tips Guy's. I can't wait to get home and try again.....Reid I went and took a look at your web site.. Looks good and you got some realy nice work in there... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 Hi, I was just reading, and thinking and got a question. So I'm trying to make my "THE Forge Weld" and it hasn't happened yet. I burn simple Polish coal which is nice hot but very dirty. It has big flames and a lot of clinker, but in other cases it doen't matter. So the question is: Can charcoal make forge welding easier? I mean it's clean and hot as well as coal or coke. I can get some left over charcoal from the local baker. It isn't much but enough for some weld weekly. Thanks, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug C Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Lumpkins Posted June 14, 2009 Author Share Posted June 14, 2009 Yesterday was the first time I was able to fire the forge up in about a month. This job and personal problems. Anyway I attempted to forge weld. and still havn't got it. fixen to head out and try again. I think today will be the day, I'm trying to faggont weld 3/8 square mild. today I'm goin to let it soak longer and make sure I got a good bed of coals.. If it happens I'll give you all a heads up.. Thanks again for all the help... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrispy Posted June 14, 2009 Share Posted June 14, 2009 That's what I like to see - persistance. Keep it up - U will get there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNewman Posted June 14, 2009 Share Posted June 14, 2009 Something I have not seen suggested is the fact that it is easier to weld heavier stock. try welding 2 1/2" bars together (even 5/8") rather than the 3/8" the heavier bar holds the heat a little longer. Just make sure that the bar is hot all the way through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evfreek Posted June 14, 2009 Share Posted June 14, 2009 Hi WagonMaster. What sort of trouble are you having? Forge welding is kind of a mysterious art, and even experts have a difficult time explaining it. Here's what I do when I am having trouble. I try to get two bars to stick in the fire. Either with or without flux, although with flux is easier. Take two 3/8 or 1/4 bars, and taper them somewhat so that they heat faster at the ends. Warm them up, brush and flux if desired, then back in the fire with a nice slow blast and deep burning bed. Check every now and then to see if the tips stick together when touched. With good steel in a good fire, they should stick so hard that you will not be able to separate them unless you take them out of the fire. Now, here's where the mysterious part comes in. I have seen experts weld successfully when this test fails. I have seen them weld without flux when this test fails with or without flux. This is a false negative. But, if this test fails, it will be unlikely for a beginner to succeed. Conversely, I have seen failure to weld when this test succeeds. This is probably caused by overly hard blows or pieces which are only hot on the surface. This is a false positive. How is the "stick" test working out? A lot of smiths don't believe in it, and rightly so, but you should be getting that sticky feeling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Lumpkins Posted June 14, 2009 Author Share Posted June 14, 2009 Well boy's I got me a piece forged welded today and I think I know what the problems been.. The last time I got a piece to stick together The wife was out there with me and I had been trying all day, and was kinda upset, Finally I told the wife I was goiin to burn some metal. So I cranked up the air and then noticed the wierd looking sparks that glenn had told me about. I pulled it out and tapped and little sparks went flying out between the area's.. then made the mistake of NOT finishing the weld. and basicaly knocked it loose. Since then I think I may have fired the forge twice. Yesterday I worked all day trying to forge weld NO LUCK.. Today I messed with it for about five hours no luck.. Finally I said the heck with it.. and cranked up the air, And watched the metal disappear into the fire.. Someone told me when it disappears into the fire your there. I also noticed those wierd looking sparks .. I pulled it out Tapped real lightly and seen little sparks fly from between the area between the two pcs. Went back into the fire and when she disappeared again. I took it out and tapped again alittle harder repeated the procedure .. and then let it cool down to red and tested it. It stuck.. I think my problem has been... NOT ENOUGH AIR COMING INTO THE PAN..I'll fix that problem when I get the time... Thanks to all of you for your help.. some of you have enough sent PM's with tips.. Thanks...Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayco Posted June 14, 2009 Share Posted June 14, 2009 Congratulations on your first forge weld! James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donnie Posted June 14, 2009 Share Posted June 14, 2009 Congratulations, fine sir. There's a lot to be said, for not giving up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug C Posted June 14, 2009 Share Posted June 14, 2009 Congratulations. Now add coal and repeat, about 20 more times, so you really get the hang of it. Glad you finally got it done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Lumpkins Posted June 14, 2009 Author Share Posted June 14, 2009 Thanks guy's.. I have a 1 1/2 inch pipe that feeds the air to my brake drum, that I use for the fire pan, and I'm thinking that I need to up grade to a lot bigger pipe, When I come in next weekend, or the next time I come in that will be the first thing I tackle. Gotta get my air .. then I'm going to try and do a bunch more forge welding.. Do you all have a suggestion for the size pipe I should be using for the Air Inlet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.