ptree

As far as we know, biggest ever attempted.

The Billet was 3" square, and 31" long. Steve Laid that one out and did the cuts so I don't have the demensions. I do have a fourmula that I will post later that I use when I lay them out that you simply multiply the cross section to get the cut lenghts.

Here are the photos

On Saturday April 28th, the "Brotherhood of Friendly Hammermen" again attacked a large billet with but sledges. The 3" square billet was about 85#, we burned 75# of coal in the heating and it took 5.5 hours for the team to make this split cross. The previos attempt yeilded a cross from 2.5" stock, that has been well recieved. This is practice for when we take this project on the road to Cannelton Indiana. The Cannelton Indiana Heritage festival has invited the Southern Indiana Meteorite Mashers a sattalite group of the Indiana Blacksmithing Association to bring our monthly club meeting to downtown Cannelton for their Heritage festival in October. We plan to make a cross like this one as part of the show. In the photo, from left; Dave Kunkler, Steve King, Jeff Reinhardt and Jason Hardin

A wood block to place under the ram will keep it up.

If I recall there is a guideline on long guides to prevent binding, but I don't recall where. I assume you mean the outer guides will be 8" above the plate, what size is the inner element? Binding will make for a jerky operation at best, destroy the guide surfaces if worse, or wreck the guides in a catastrophic manner if really bad and you gain the full force of a cylinder pushing in a side load manner. Gut says 8" on anything smaller than say 6" od on the inner element shoud not bind. I have seen hundreds of 2 post and 4 post presses, some with one cylinder and some with 3. I did some work on a 1000 ton 3 cylinder, 4 post press at VOGT. Had about 16" posts, and about 6' long guides. I replaced it with a custom 1000 ton single cylinder, side plate design, portable press. (Portable if you have a 25 ton bridge crane overhead)

Dan That valve will make a press go up and down, and in the center(No solnoid energized) will connect both the cylinder and pressure and tank ports. This will allow the press to drift down over time. Depending on the friction in the system, the drift down may be an over the weekend off to down or may be a watch it ever so slowly move. Normally for a vetrical press I would go for a center position that would block the A & B ports and connect P & T. that way the pump, which I assume is a fixed displacement pump is running with no pressure when not pressing or retracting. The blocked a & B ports would tend to hold the press in position in the short term. It will still drift down over time but would be a much slower drift.

To use mechanical guiding to accomplish this takes consideration to have long enogh guides to not allow locking when the translating rams cock the ram. There are several types of flow devider. Parker makes a gear type that works well and is near bullet proof

As a guy who worked in the valve and fitting trade for 21 years, I would not now, or ever use pipe unions in a hydraulic system at 2500 psi. AND we made the best in the world and rated to 6000psi working pressure. They will leak. Pipe unions are not the right thing for schedule 160 pipe in the service you will have. Use weld on 2 bolt flanges made for hydraulics that are O-ring sealed. For thread sealant do not use pipe tape. Use an anerobic thread sealant like Loctite PST and use the primer. Best on the market for this service. Consider running thin wall tube over the pipe where ever leakage could spray on hot steel. Run the open end to a safe spot where you will notice and then you can fix safely. For a bigger solenoid valve as you are looking for be sitting down when you get the price. In this size you actually get 3 valves, 2 pilot valves that are solnoid operated that shift the big spool that delivers the oil. A manual valve may well be MUCH cheaper and that is why many presses of this size have manual valves. Good luck.

I believe if you look a bit you can find components with SAE O-ring ports. You can run the seamless tube, just have to weld them. You can Butt wed them, use socket weld fittings or use weld on flanges. There is a series of SAE hydraulic flanges that use O-rings as the gasket. Now the low cost components one finds at the farm store will usually be NPT. At 2500 PSI you could also use Swaglok brand double ferrule fittings on tube. They have a reccomendation on tubing, ie on hardness. If the tubing is rated for the pressure, and is at the hardness stated, these are the worlds best hydraulic fittings.The are priced as the worlds best as well. I have used Swaglok on pressure testing machines that cycled to 10,500PSI in production use for manay years with no leaks. On hydraulics at 2500 psi, I would also consider Parker Brand Ferrululok ferrule fittings. At 2500 PSI should work a treat. Depending on tube size you may need a preswager for the Parkers.

Usually a solnoid operated valve is a spring return. That means on a single solnoid valve there are 2 states. One is with the solnoid energized and the other is the spring returned state. So... on a regular spring return, single solnoid valve, even an external piloted valve without power to the solnoid valve you will see the "Normal" condition. For a normal double acting cylinder control valve you have 5 ports, and 2 conditions. One state will connect pressure to a cylinder port and connect the opposite cylinder port to exhaust to allow the cylinder to travel. When the valve is switched to the opposite state the opposite cylinder port is connected to exhaust and the formerly exhausted port is supplied with pressure. In the lead forming press, there may have been a reason for blocked exhausts. May have used a secondary exhaust to better control speed or used for position control. Having designed hundreds of pnuematic and hydraulic control circuits, including many presses, I can tell you that there are many thousands of possible valve configerations. Search the web for a guide to the ISO symbols used and that little diagram on the side will tell you most all you wish to know. In practical answer to electrical vs pnuematic controls for a hammer, anything doable with pnuematic controls can be done with electrical and pretty much vice versa. Think voltage = pressure, amperage = flow volume, resistance is flow control. Roller valves are limit switches. control valves are relays and so forth.

The diagram on the side gives the 2 states of the valve. If you look, you will see stamped into the sides with the ports, numbers that are 1 to 5. The number 1 port is the inlet or pressure port. The number 2 and 4 ports are the outlets or delivery ports. The little "T" symbols on the diagram indicate that port is blocked in that state. If you look at the diagram, you will see 3 straight lines in the cent. The very center straight line devides the symbol to show one state to the left and the other to the right. The solenoid is a 110V 60 Hz 6.3 watt. The threaded port on the solenoid indicates either a seperate pilot line or an exhaust port for the solenoid. The more likely is the external pilot. The external pilot port is sometimes used when the gas pressure through the valve itself is too low to operate the valve, in which case you provide a higher pressure to the pilot to shift the spool. The ported pilot exhaust may be used when the gas is toxic or unsafe to exhaust wherever the valve is located. An example would be if the valve was operating on natural gas. You can also look up the details on the parker site. The blocked ports are the exhausts by the way, a fairly unusual configeration. I would expect this may have been used in the Toxic or flammable gas service.

The 6 P factor I learned in the ARMY was as Dan called it. I too had a close one when a flat came off the anvil like a rocket, and did about the same damage as JGRAFF has. I too was wearing safety glasses. Mine also flew off, and were bent and I had a scratch indicating my eyeball would have took the hit if I had not had the glasses. Happened at a monthly meeting, and right after everone figured out I had not been badly injured, there was a mass exodus for their own PPE as several had the PPE but left it in the car. I posted mine on the Safety thread, probablyabout 2 years ago. A quick safety glasses test: Close both eyes and tell me what you see? Any questions? :)

John, in industry, air cylinder flow is controlled on the exhaust almost exclusively in every machine I can think of. The probelm with air being compressable is that if you control in, then all the exhaust from the other side runs away, and you build a little pressure in the fed side, the pistion overcomes stiction and moves, the pressure drops as the volume increases and then the cycle starts anew. I would agree with you to controlling the exhaust Hydraulic cylinders ARE NEVER controlled exhaust. If you put the rated pressure in the blind side, the rod side being controlled you get a pressure multiplication that can blow seals at the least. Bigger the rod the bigger the issue. In air not a problem as the air is easily copmpressed.

Got one just like it, and it is my demo drill. Mounts on a stand on the tongue of the trailer. Indeed a nice drill.

Had storms till about midnight, nothing too rough. Lots of rain.

Prayers from Southern Indiana.

Prayers being sent from Southern Indiana.

My prayers are being sent along with the heart felt relief of a father to hear the little one is doing well. May God be with you all. Remember, Sorrow is divided and joy multiplied with good friends and family. We do care.

Another round today, Louisville suberb Fern Creek got hit this afternoon, at least an F-1. And since the sun came back out, for another 4 hours since the energy has rebuilt. Round 2 is upon us, and I see massive build-ups. Tornado watch till 1:00 am Saturday. Fasten your seat belts, it's going to be a bumpy ride tonight.

Min, I worked for the Henry Vogt Machine Co for 21 years. We were the leading maker for forged steel valves and fittings 2" and under in the world. We also made millions of flanges and also made alloy fittings. The physical plant produced about 100,000 complete valves and from 4 to 7 million fittings a month. We forged all of the components in a steam drop forge plant. The drop forge was a single story factory of about 1 hectacre space. The machine shop covered about 1 hectacre and was 7 stories tall with machines on all floors. The heat treat, test and assembly shops covered an additional hectacre. We had about 700 machine tools when I started, as as we modernized we lowered the machine count to about 450 tools and about a hectacre single story building for machining heat treat and assembly/test. The forge moved from drop forges to forging presses. It took 121 years to get to there. If you want to make fitting for local use, and low pressure then much less infrastructure is meeded for the steam class 150 to class 2500 we made. We also certified our products to codes from groups like the API, ASME, ASA, AAR,and ISO This takes careful documentation of the processes and the right testing. You could probably get much better answers with more info on what you really mean by CS fittings. This could be cast, machined from solid, or forged and machines or drawn from tube. Good luck.

When buying safety toe shoes, if you have wide feet, or work outside where it gets cold the Composite toe shoes are very nice. The toe box is taller and wider to meet the inpact test. The composite does not conduct the cold either. My current boots are a meta-tarsel guarded "Worx by Redwing" and I paind about $130 for them in 10.5 EEEE. Keen makes a very nice boot I hear. If you weld a lot, or get forge scale on you boots the external meta-tarsel guards are nice, and protect you from hot stuff getting in the tongue of the shoe. But if you climb ladders alot, go with the internal guards as the externals like to catch and trip you on ladders. NONE of the newer style shoes are life time shoes per the makers. I have set up corporate safety shoes buys for several factories, and in discussion with factory reps from all the major brands it was revealed that the insole materials that tend to make for comfort break down, and in a year of everyday wear the insole pads collaspe and make the shoe fit poorly and be uncomfortable. So shoes with really good, replacable insloes tend to be longer lived.

Coleen, My shop is tin roofed and walled. The rafters are 4" diameter Boiler tube. I used ISO board insulation, recycled that was from a re-roof job on a comercial building. 1.5" (40mm) thick, and rigid. My tin is nailed down to wood nailers, so the insulation is nailed up between the steel boiler tube from the bottom. I don't know if the same type insulation is used in England, but this is the insulation that is used under rubber membrane roofing. I still need about 8 to 10 boards to complete. In my area, we see 98F and 98% relative humidity often in the summer, and often 20F in the winter with the odd drop to -20F. Don't know if it made the News in your area, but we had a serious outbreak of Tornados last Friday, with the nearest about 12-15 kilometers north. That one leveled towns and was a killer, with 11 dead and hundreds injuried. We here at the house got extremely heavy rain, and strong wind, but nothing like the 175 Mile an hour of the tornados. My house is a Techno-rustic, that I built. Creekstone up to the window bottoms, red brick to the top of the windows and red cedar board and batten above that. All shed style roofs with clestory walls and windows on the south to grab the sun. Set on a small holding of about 1.4 hectacres. The house sits in the forrest, with no other house to be seen in the summer. In the winter we get glimspes of the neighbors through the leafless woods. Often deer and turkeys on the lawn. In fact the deer here are a pest, as they eat anything like a veggie garden and many shrubs. But they can be tasty:) We are so overpopulated with Whitetail deer that we can only legaly take 13 or so a year! If you were to look at a map of the US, and find Louisville Kentucky, home of the KY Derby, and look just to the north across the Ohio River you would see New Albany Indiana, I am in the only hills in Indiana in tiny Floyds Knobs just North of New Albany. Been here in this house since 1985. Had to add more bedrooms since my wife who stated firmly that she "would have one child, professional childcare and a career" found she rather liked children and gave me 4. The baby is now 20. 3 still at home as they attend college locally.

Yes Coleen, my given name is Jeff. I took Persimmon Tree forge as my biz name since I started by dragging the anvil and forge out of the wood shop to the shade of a large persimmon tree. Persimmons are like a weed in this area of Southern Indiana. There used to be a pretty big trade in persimmon wood for golf club drivers but that has dwindled. My kids grew up knowing when to graze the persimmons in the fall. Once ripe they are a bit like a nicely ripe apricot. Not ripe they are so astringant as to make you think your mouth will turn inside out:) I have shipped a couple of the veggie choppers to England as well as a trowel. I too heat with wood, but only have to kindle a fire once a heating season as I have an outside woodburner that heats the house. My wife is a CITY girl, who never managed to get the hang of proper wood stove management. With the outdoor burner, I load before I leave for work and again before bed. She sets a thermostat and the temp in our super insulated passive solar house stays right where she desires and no dirt-ashes-smoke in the house. Now my much less insulated shop made from 100% post industrial salvage did not have any heat till last fall. It now has a wood stove with blower and I have been adding insulation as I find it. I can now raise the temp by 20F in an hour or so and raise from a uncomfortable to work in 20F to 50F which is fine to do forge work in in a couple of hours.

I have melted scrap many many times in a simple cheap ingot mold from Rio Grande jewlers supply. it is a simple half moon round shape of ingot mold refractory. Been using the same one since about 1977. I use a siple propane hand held torch, and plain pure borax, 20 Mule team in the US. I place the scrap in the mold, heat and as the silver starts to slump I add a pinch of the borax. I continue to heat and flux as I see anything but a mirrow shiney puddle, and once clean I simply cool to solid and slide the button into Sparex to pickle. From there I cold or hot forge as needed to sheet and then fabricate what I need. Silver is pretty simple and easy to melt and forge. If you use the same scrap several melts the alloys are oxidized out and the silver approaches fine silver and gets softer. If you are seeing cracking when forging, you either had non silver in the melt, or forge to long for cold work or too hot for hot. One technique I have used is to use a slightly rough anvil surface, and then the last forging is a planishing peening with a tiny little ball planishing hammer and the leave the peened surface. If you are carful in the polish you get a woonderful grainy surface that has fantasic highlights and a random grain. I used the exact same technique for gold scrap. When poor and in college after the ARMY in the late 70's I used to give wedding rings to good friends as a wedding gift. THEY supplied the metal, as I told them bring the old jewelery from previous loves and we will forge them into new rings for your new love. The folks got to watch/help, with both doing a little hammer work at minimum, and I would shamelessly tell them how the last traces of previous loves were gone, hammered out and new forged from the old. That usually got a good cry from the girls:) once sheet had been made I sawed out the ring blanks, and often saved a little strip when they were not looking that went into a envelope with their name. When they announced the birth of thier first, I would make a tiny little babies ring, suitable to fit a newborns finger but with a ribbon of pink or blue as needed. The ribbon is clove hitched to the ring, and has tails long enough to gently tie around the babies wrist to prevent loss and swallowing:) Mom and baby get a one time photo with the ring, and then the Mom wears the ring on a necklace. Those baby rings are darn hard to make as they are so small, but the ring with ribbon and a card explaining the tradition and where the metal came from usually got another good cry. All are free to copy this as needed as it is a wonderful gift to close friends.