ptree

On the youtube video I have a link to below, there are many truck axles shown, and a little of the upset forging process used to make them.

The truck axles best used to make hand hammers are those in the bigger trucks like dump trucks and semi's. Next time around a big truck, look at the rear wheels. You will notice an approx 6" diameter hub sticking out in the center of the wheel with smallish bolts around the perimeter. If you remove those bolts, the axle can be pulled straight out. You will then have a axle from a full float style. Smaller trucks like most 1/2 ton pick-ups use semi float axles and the outer hub assy has a bearing pressed onto the axle and the axle is smaller, and much harder to remove. On a group 8 truck like a semi, the axle shank will often be 2.5" in diameter and will yeild about 40# of 1541H steel, an excellent hammer material. Oil quench and temper with in 45 minutes. And yes Andy the trucks in England use the same steel as the US, it is a universal standard. Ptree who worked for 3 years in an Axle upset forge shop.

Henry Vogt himself was gone from the scene before any one I worked with started there. Mr GA as the everyone reffered to G.A Heuser was known as a good manager, fair but strict.MR GA was Henry Heusers sr's Dad One guy told the story of a draftsman who worked at the board in front of his, and that fellow napped on the job pretty regular. Mr GA walked in one day and saw the guy asleep. The guy behind him asked " Do want me to wake him up?" and Mr GA replied " No, he has a job as long as he is asleep"My working career started in 1981 at HVM and Mr Henry as we reffered to Henry Vogt Heuser Sr hired me. He was an astute manager, often saw talents in people that others did not and fostered those talents. He was always a gentleman, treated everyone there in a gentlemenly way. He knew the names of the wives and children of everyone there! He would ask men working in the shops about the children, by name and that foster loyalty. He also had some interesting policies. At VOGT anyone working there could buy anything VOGT could for the same wholesale price. All of our venders either would sell direct, or a dummy PO for a cash willcal was placed, a great benefit to folks building homes and the like. We could buy any scrap at the company for $0.06/#, $0.32/# for stainless. Even whole machines that were to be scrapped. Scrap wood was free. If someone had a son that wanted to drop out of highschool, they went to Mr. Henry and the boy was hired, and usually was placed in the hottest, dirtiest nastiest job available. After a week or so Mr Henry would call the young man up front to the lunch room for lunch before anyone else was due to eat. He would ask the young man how he liked his job and then ask him if he knew what it took to eat up front and work in a nicer job and when the young fellow would ask what he would be told education! he would then usually be sent back to highschool, and if he graduated he would often be given a scholarship for technical or college. Talk about building loyalty! Speaking about the lunch room, In 1981 the lunch room fed everyone not in the Union. it was a take it or leave it plate lunch. it cost $1.00 per week! The women ate for $0.65/week! These were lunches like roast beef and mashed potatos and gravey. There were a few lesser lunchs like a hamburger or a chili dog but a super bennie. At VOGT when I started no machine was bought until cash was in hand to pay for it. We had a tool committee and when you had a machine or process improvement to propose that cost capital you went to the committee and you had to sell them(Mr Henry) on the value. Mr Henry remembered every machine in that plant, remembered what had been paid for it when last overhauled and when last moved etc! Mr Henry once told me that when he had a hard decision to make he went out to the boiler shops and visited the worlds biggest riveter, which he had been involved in. Seems the riveter was installed and then VOGT switched to welding the drums, so it sat there unused. The first photo's showing the tall machine in the book above are of that riveter. One of the 50 year veterans in the Engineering dept often said when we were walking back for the committee, "Mr Henry said, and we all agreed" Being a blacksmith at heart and having grown up poor, I was a use it up, make it do, remake it into something usuable kind of guy and Mr. Henry loved that. He hated throwing anything away if some value was to be had. We supplied every technical highschool program in the area with scrap plate for their welding courses, the totes would be weighed, sent out used for welding practice and returned for us to scrap. Oddly they weighed more when they came back from all the weld metal, so it was a win win for everybody:) One of the Exec's, Dan Schelgel lived in Breakinridge county and favored their local tech highschool and so they also got scrap machines to use, For many years I gave the technical and sales tours of the shops, and every year right before graduation the entire machinist class would come to VOGT for a field trip. I toured them through the shops, and then they were taken to a conference room and handed applications to fill out:) Mr Henry went to Purdue engineering, but adopted University of Louisville Speed school of engineering. So I had engineering co-ops in my R&D Labs sometimes 3 and mostly from Speed school. Mr Henry took on getting a modern and new engineering lab built as the speed school's lab was pretty shabby then. When he retired as Chairman of the board he dropped way back in hours at VOGT to only 40 or so, and took on the New building as a personel crusade. He strong armed all the other industrialists, and got it done and that is a fine lab fully equipped. They got the first TUbE ICE machine ever built as a test bed as well. I was blessed to get the job at VOGT as I was a fresh from school Mechanical Engineering Technology grad, and they never had one before. The Chief Engineer of the Valve and Fitting Division, Mr Perry wanted an engineering test lab, to leave as his legacy. He was due to retire in a few months and so interviewed me. Then he sold the idea to Mr Henry and I was asked back for another interview. What an interview! Every manager and chief engineer and superintendent tag team interviewed me! After a couple of hours An older gentleman came in sat down and everyone else shut up. He introduced himself as Henry Heuser and began to ask questions. More like talking to an old friend than an interview, After a while he bagan to say "When you come work for me I have some projects I want to work on in my retirement and I think you will have fun with them". I noticed a subtle change in the demenor of the others, I was Hired:) After it was over the Cheif engineer told me he would write an offer letter that afternoon(Friday) and get it typed and sent out on Monday. Well a week came and went, and then another week. No letter. I figured they had changed their mind, and then I got a call at work in the R&D Lab at Westinghouse Airbrake fluid power division in Lexington KY. It was Mr Henry, and an instant thought flashed through my mind, "Mr Perry died, and there went my Job". Mr Henry says, I am sorry to report that Mr Perry died that Friday night. I thought OK now for the second part, and he said we have just now found the offer letter, are you still interested? I accepted and spent the next 17 years learning everything I could. To show how they grew people, I was told, In the first moonth here take at least a couple of hours a day, and wander around and learn all you can. I sort of did that for 17 years:). In most corporations, a beginner with an associate degree would have been a tester, my first title for maybe 20 years. I learned and took on responsibility, and they allowed me all the new responsibility I wanted:) Soon I was a Test and Developement engineer, and then a Test and Developement and special project engineer, then a Special projects Manager. I also ended up with the Powerhouse for 18 months in there. Most companies felt paper on the wall was required, but Mr Henry often stated that 2-3 years working in industry was work a year of college. And he followed through on that. I was blessed to work at a company that allowed me to work and learn in every division, learning all the processes. HVM had a Heavy Equipment division that made Boilers, the TUBE ICE Division that made ice making equipment, a Food Equipment divsion, the Forge and Die division and Valve and Fitting Division. About 1700 employees when I started. If you can think of an industrial metal working process they had it( And several you did not know existed) As a self proclaimed Techno-freak I was really a kid in the world's best playground. And I got paid to go there 5 days a week:)

After reading the blogs, I discovered that I also worked for 3 years in the same building Votator was located at 28th and Broadway. Tube Turns, owned i believe by Girdler had Votator in the part of the building closest to Broadway st. Spent 3 years working for what is now Sypris Technologies, an upset forge shop making mostly Axles. Mr. Henry Vogt Hueser sr, hired me, and was a great friend and mentor to me. When I once asked about the closed down Vogt Brothers building I had seen well north of the HVM, he remarked something to the effect that was the blacksheep of the family had been poorly run and failed. Seems the bad blood lasted a century. HVM traded engineering and management quite a bit with tube turns over the many years, anoth mentor of mine was Tom Grawmeyer, and he had work for Votator and Tube turns before becomeing the superintendent of manufacturing at VOGT.

I worked at the Henry Vogt Machine co from 1981 until my division, the Valve and Fitting Div was sold in 1995, and then worked for the valve and fitting division as it went thru several owners until the new factory in Jeffersonville Indiana was bought and shut down in 2002. I worked in every building shown in the photo's above, and much of that equipment still was in use. I scrapped the riviter in about 1996, The motor operated valve shown is very similar to the motor operated valves we made right up to 2002. The big 25,000# Erie drop hammer was scrapped out in about 1994. I miss the folks I worked with, a great crew.

Johnie, we just had a wild hair when Steve King found a hunk of 2.25"(57.15mm) square and he cut it out and bingo. We had a lot of fun doing that one and then moved to 3" square (76.2mm). We have now done 4 of these and plan a few more. Then who knows, we will maybe step up to a new project. Great fun, great fellowship in our crew, and the public loves the team striking.

Considering that many WWII films shown to GI's were made by Hollywood and were straight up propoganda, and the simple fact the machine gum barrells are high grade steel and quite thick, the whole idea of a sword cutting thru is ludicris. Ptree who was told in basic that if they are close enough to stab or slice they are certainly close enough to shoot.

Bionicarm, when you have a huge inventory of new on the shelf valves, and the decision is made to not sell asbestos packed and gasketed valves something has to be done. Some of these valves had more value then a new cars so... I designed all of the hydro test equipment anyway, so it was almost the same type of equipment. With the system, a repack and regasket was a few dollars VS the cost of proper disposal of a new valve, and we had MANY :) The powerhouse with the 4 boilers, all built in the 30-40's with tons and tons of spray on asbestos, well they got left in place and a new power house built. I was glad when my division was sold and we built a new asbestos and PCB and lead free shop:) Actually got to work in the shop for 7 years before we were again sold and the production moved to India. Then into an early industrial age factory with asbestos-PCB's and lead:( Was there 3 years. Now again in a asbestos-PCB and Lead free shop.

Bionicarm, Nemesis? Not:) I always worked well with the air monitors, and project designers. They had a job to do just as I did. I actually set up a system to blow the stem packing out of valves that had been on the shelf, using hydro-static water pressure, amended with detergent of course. Had to remove the packing from about 100,000 valves:) Most of the asbestos work at the plant was glovebag.

A quick, not absolute test but is usually accurate is to take a small pinch of the suspect material, heat with a cigerrette lighter. If the material glows when fully heated, and then when cooled is about the same in look and strenght almost always Asbestos. And as I noted No dust is good to breath, NON.

Johnnie, To qualify my answers, I was a US Federally certified Asbestos Abatement supervisor for about 10 years. Answers: 1, Asbestos was still in use in the US until about the mid 80's when phaseout began. 2, A one time exposure to Asbestos, especially if you do not smoke has a pretty low risk of causing Asbestos related illness. 3, Asbestos related illness usually takes decades to develop. The above is based on the common forms of asbestos, There is one type that is far worse, and was seldom used. NO dust is good to breathe period. That includes weld fume, a form of dust. Now a little you did not ask about; 1. the asbestos that harms you is so small you can't see it. These dangerous particals are about 4 micro meters by 1 micrometer around and are hollow tubes with sharp ends. They float in the air and stay airborn for a very long time. When inhaled they stab into the small air sacks in the lungs and the lung tissue scars around the tube. The dust you saw will almost all be stopped by the bodies natural defenses, and never make it into your lungs. BUT where there is that kind of dust, there is also the dust you can't see. The way to remove the dust now in the area where the work was done involves wet removal. Put a spoon full of dish dertengent into 25 liters of water, and spray this gently on the floor and then mop up. Then spray gently on all horizontal surfaces and then wipe up with a damp rag. This keeps the dust from being stirred back into the air. Place any debris into a plastic bag and dispose. In the future, anytime one is disturbing refracory or fibre insulation that has been heated to high temp, use a gentle spray in the refractory first and keep spraying to hold the dust. A good HEPA rated filter respirator is also a good idea, and is also useful when grinding and welding to keep that dust from your lungs. To those who smoke, all of the studies find an increased risk from asbestos in smokers, as high as 5000 times more likely due to smokings effect of reducing the bodies natural defense against dust. Hope this helps. Ptree who worked for a Valve and Fitting and Boiler maker who used millions of tons of asbestos over their 121 year history. All of our own facility piping was asbestos lagged as well as the 4 big boilers in the powerhouse i ran for a while.

I am very sorry for your loss, prayers from Indiana

All the welding supply houses in the US sell Green cotton Sateen welders jackets and aprons, and they offer good burn resistance being treated. They are much cooler than leather, but offer less impact resistance. They can be washed up to 50 times without loss of the fire resistance and very reasonable. I buy them in lots of 10 for about $5.00 US each. My factory workers won't wear the leather as it is too heavy and hot, but love the green cotton sateen. In my shop at home I use both cotton sateen aprons and jackets.

I find that at most demo's the adults have an attention span of a 3 year old, and the young ones have much better attantion spans:) I do many preforms at the shop and have a 5 gallon bucket of things that need the last several heats to complete. I have 3/8" split crosses already cut in a coffee can and do many as they are a quick and inexpensive item. I also do key rings much like in the photos, but have a hardy die that lets me give make raised viens in one hit. Or on some I texture veins with a dulled welding chipping hammer. Some standard jokes are also good.

I have 3 of the Cannady Otto blowers, and indeed as far as I am concerned the best blowers every made. Becasue they actually hold the oil in the case instead of dripping it out they do tend to get gummed up. I like to drain the oil and fill with Kerosene (Pariffin for the UK folks). If I have time I soak the entire blower in kerosene and after a week or so drain. Then mount in the correct attititude. That is with the oil fill hole straight up. The trycock (Test Valve) will be at about 45 degrees. Then fill with a 50:50 mix of kerosene and light oil(ATF). I then try turning and on these symetrical case blowers they can be turned either way. Most have worn in and turn easier in one direction. Once i find the easy direction I turn gently for a couple of minutes and drain. Surprising what gunk will drain. I repeat till I get a clean drain. Then I fill with ATF (Automatic Transmission Fluid- Dexron-Mercon in the US) ATF has a great anti-wear package and has a very low pour point and is about perfect in these blower gear boxes. I change the oil yearly. I have a shop that can drop to -10F and be as hot as 100F and the blower turns fine at any temp I have tried. I don't forge at -10F but have turned the blower and it was fine.

On these old machines Little Giants and the like, a simple hole leadinmg to the bearing indicates oil. A screw down cup indicates grease. One the old machines they should be slick, almost swiming in oil. If the machine is being used and is clean, not enough oil! Way oil is a good oil for ways. A hammer slide and actually almost anything in forging equipment moves too fast and has too much scale etc for a tacky oil. These machine were designed to be total loss, IE the oil goes in and flushes through the bearings and slides and washes grit OUT. I set up and bought the oil for the upsett forge machines in a production shop after bad oil ruined several machines. The original spec's were for a Mobil GEAR OIL. In the case of these huge machines ISO-460. It has the extreme pressure additives etc. In the case of a little Giant or similar I would go with a much lower ISO viscosity, but would still use a gear oil. In the upsetter shop we used 1700 gallons a week as every drop that went into the machine oozed out and flowed down the machine frame into the pit. Big mechanical forge presses are the same way, and the slide lubricators on the steam drop hammers the same total loss, and gear oil. That is why they sit on a raised block inside a water filler pit. The oil floats and is skimmed off and recycled at an oil recycling facility.

Patrick Nowak gave me a nice forged Vee block that makes pipe forgeing much easier. Tends to reduce the tendency to make the round go uneven. Nicely done. Did it help?

Dave's Bend jig reduced the time to open and align the arms by maybe an hour. Trying to hammer align a cross this big was not very effective. Comical it was, and I was one of the comic's :) Every member of the BFH's has contributed to making the tooling and the how to on these big crosses. The founding members: Jason Hardin Steve King Dave Kunkler Jeff Reinhardt

Just checked the best reference in on the stainless steels, the Carpenter Blue book. Forging of 304 and 316 are both 2100F to 2300F and no forging below 1700F. Don't forget to anneal for best corrosion resistance after forging.

My experience with 300 SS is that you want a nice lemon yellow. The 18% chrome and 8% nickel make this material hot hard. When I forge 316/316L also an 18-8 alloy, I use a lemon heat and quit at red. We forged millions of pounds of 316SS at this temp in the valve and fitting forge shop. If you check you will also find that due to the high strenght at high temp you will need 30-50% more force to make the same movement as plain steel. 300 SS forged too cold will tear and crumble.

Crazy, Maybe. But the good fellowship, the learning as we get better, and the shear joy in making something that people enjoy is the actual answer to why. And we like a challange.

Matt you and your lovely young bride would both be welcome.

Oops, left out Jason Hardin a founding member of the BFH's, he was there and on the crew.

It just illustrates that an anvil does not have to look like a London pattern anvil to work. That is a rough forging from the upsetter shop I used to work at. about 20" flange on the end that makes it very stable, and it has almost all of the weight directly under the hammer. These are aerospace grade 4140, and I took some to Quad State to sell. No interest at $50 for a 250#+ and $70 for a 454#. Now that I no longer work there of course everyone wants one!

I have made and sold about 420 trowels from RR spikes as Thomas notes. I have done garden hand rakes, weeders, japanese style garden knives etc, but the entire lot of non-trowels sold is probably less than 30. I have folks copying my trowels now, but all I have seen for sale were lifeless hunks of iron that were a poor imatation. One guy just press mashes a blade, and they look it. Every one I do is froged by hand and shaped and ground by hand. Each balances a little differently, and at shows the gardeners pick them up and try them and will usually find one that "Calls to them". I use that in my sales approach inviting folks to pick them up and try them. I would advise using steels that are tuff, not hard. I have seen folks stomp, kick and use levers on my tools and they are really going to be abused, so plan on that.