Fowllife

John Keep in mind if this is on a business you "should" follow both OBC & ADA requirements on your design (Ohio Building Code & ANSI 117) .....and your city also has an Architectural Review Board. I'm sure your aware of both, just a reminder.

I'm not quite sure what kind of license you are talking about needed for a larger tank? While Avon Lake is one of the more "difficult" cities that I have done work in I highly doubt they have any requirements for 100lb and smaller tanks. I can check my copy of the NFPA 58 but I don't remember smaller tanks being an issue for residential use. We have a lot of job trailers around on commercial projects with multiple 100 lb tanks and have never had a problem with any local building or fire chiefs. I'm curious what kind of "license" you think you might need? As for filling, your best bet might be if you have a TSC store locally. All the suppliers that I can think of close to me will also fill tanks. As for buying a tank, TSC, Rural King, and Menards all usually have 20,30,40, and 100 lb tanks in stock. They are pretty readily available.

Currently I'm running all Milwaukee on my cordless tools. I have a 1 year old M18 Fuel version, and a 3 year old standard M18, both 4 1/2". They live on a rack on my main work bench, and I have a pair of corded grinders on the bench behind me (Milwaukee & DeWalt.) I think both have their place and I wouldn't be without either type. I do like the M18 Fuel version better than the standard M18 as it seems to have more power, runs cooler, and is more comfortable to use. I feel run time has been adequate with both, but it depends on the batteries. I like to use the smaller batteries as they are lighter, 3Ah's seem to be my go to as they are a good balance of weight and run time. The older 2Ah run them just fine, but the 6+Ah get a little heavy IMO. I'm only familiar with the big 2 (Milwaukee & DeWalt) and they both make comparable units, and I believe they both offer a 5yr warranty. I have had a couple of my Milwaukee tools replaced/fixed 3-4 years out without any hassle. I would plan on getting 2 batteries, my preference would be a smaller 2Ah & a larger 4Ah. I have been happy with both Milwaukee M18 grinders, and all of my Fuel M18 tools.

Your free to do as you wish, I was just saying it’s not that hard. If the gas company shut it off they will have to test/inspect before they turn it back on regardless, so there’s really no difference in peace of mind……

I'm sure I'll get flamed for this, but do it yourself. None of that stuff is rocket science. Nothing on the residential side of electric or plumbing is really all that hard, it just takes a little research and some common sense. With a little time I'm sure you could do it yourself for 10-20% of that price. I'm currently building a suite for my mother in law about 100' from my house. I'll probably have less then $3K TOTAL into running all the utilities (gas, water, electric) to the building plus all work inside for electric, plumbing and gas. I think the coated gas line Big Gun Doc might be referring to is CSST? If so its a stainless steel flexible gas line with a plastic/rubber coating. It's similar to flex conduit but for gas. The piping is slightly cheaper then ridged right now but the fittings are kind of pricey. Although, after saying all of that, you might not be allowed to do it yourself if you're in the city and the local building department requires a "licensed contractor" do the work.

I highly recommend the adapter. The new lithium batteries are way better then the old NiCad. The tools are all 18v regardless (20v is just DeWalt marketing as it’s a 20v maximum power surge, but it’s really an 18v tool)

Luckily the timing lined up that when my dad was building his wood shop he also had new grandkids. He wired all of his shop power through a disconnect that always stays off unless he is out there working so no little hands can accidentally turn on any power tools (lighting and one convivence outlet are wired to the main panel.) While this won't help you if your kids are old enough to throw the disconnect switch I thought it was a great idea and plan to incorporate something similar when I build my wood shop next year. I would think you should be able to incorporate a disconnect with a standard lock out/tag out devise for your lathe.

Steel has went up quite a bit in price in the last several months. You paid about $1.40/lb for your tube, which really isn't that bad of a price right now on the retail end for hollow shapes. Most steel is up 50-125% in the last year.

I was going to say there are a couple of us in the area, it look like you already found John. I'm just a bit West of him. This time of year I don't have a lot of extra time to spend in the forge, but if you want to swing out sometime shoot me a message. I don't know if they are currently having meetings, but the WRABA (Western Reserve Artist Blacksmith Association) isn't too far either.

We used to have a wee bit of fun naming animals. Our very first steer was T-Bone, then Sir Loin, and our third Porterhouse, pretty easy to make the association there....We bought a Nubian buck one year and he got named Diamond, all his kids ended up with "stripper" names.....We've had a bull named Porkchop, and boars named Baconator and Sir Lance a Lot. We did have a little runt piglet one year we named Wilber, something just wasn't right with him and he never really finished out. My wife was not a happy camper the day he made the trip to freezer camp. Now we don't have breeding stock and just buy our feeders, they all just get ear tags.....kinda boring.

I know I’m a little late on this, but better late then never. Plywood would not be my first, or second choice in this application. Any hardwood would be good as long as it’s not one of the more brittle woods. Ash, oak, or hickory would all be good choices as long as they have straight grain. Osage would be the best as it’s one of the strongest domestic hardwoods, but it doesn’t glue very well. Epoxy would be needed instead of glue. You also will probably end up breaking screws so thru bolts would be better. With most other domestic hardwoods Titebond II would be a good option for glue. If you can get good clamping pressure fasteners aren’t really required, but I would put some 3/8”-1/2” thru bolts staggered off dented with at least a 1 1/4” edge distance. With hardwoods screws become more difficult and less effective. Btw, I love your build. I can’t wait until you get it running and can see what it can do. Nice work.

Frosty - thanks for making me eligible for “something.” I’ll gladly take character status JD - good luck with your second dose. Moderna is also what my wife got, she had a fever and body aches for 5-6 days after her second dose. Im sure she was the outlier though as the typical side effects only last a day or two if any.

My wife got her second dose of the vaccine early in the week. One thing to keep in mind, side affects are much more common after the second dose. Nothing major, but quite a few people missing a day or two of work after the second. She always gives blood regularly, and the Red Cross checks every donation for antibodies. The donation after her first vaccination dose did show that she had antibodies, so apparently it is effective. Her organization has opened up a community clinic to vaccinate any community member that qualify per Ohio’s current eligibility rules. For me personally, I have a long ways to go before I’m eligible for anything.

There are too many unknown variables for someone to check your math. How many PSI is your pump? An "Old" tractor could have anywhere from 1000-2500 psi system depending on what era is was from. Are you sure your motor is 110v? Although they do exist, "most" 5hp and higher motors are 220-240v. As for the actual design and construction of your press, spend some time and do some reading. I don't believe that style of frame is usually recommended without some heavy modifications.

While this may have helped you with you with a small residential project, it would not have helped if you were doing a commercial building. New Mexico state law would still require you to get a Commercial building permit if you were to put up a Commercial building. There is a very big difference between Residential project and Commercial project. I have not done the research but I would be willing to bet the vast majority of states will require permitting and following codes for Commercial project. Zoning/lot use would be the lax codes in you situation. Most rural areas do not enforce residential codes, even if they do have them on the books. The key point I'm trying to make here is there is a huge difference between commercial and residential. Slag - You are absolutely correct in what you stated, the only issue would be if no building permit has been applied for, or issued, there would be no documentation to fall back on. If a certificate of plan approval, or partial approval has been issued and signed by the applicant, and all of the proper inspections have been made and signed off on you have a solid paper trail. But, if non of that has been done it's pretty hard to prove and becomes a he said she said situation........unfortunately though it is not that uncommon for an inspector to try to add stuff during the final inspection. It is usually just easier to do what they want instead of holding up the CO. JLP - I'll try to quickly answer a couple of your questions. The main building code I'm used to is the 2017 Ohio Building Code (OBC) with is based on the 2015 IBC but "Ohioized" Yes, code "language" can be very confusing, even when your used to reading it. The same word, or similar sounding wording can have totally different meaning in different context. There is also a lot of referencing back and forth between different section and different codes. The main codes are building, mechanical, plumbing, electrical, ANSI 117 (ADA) (there are dozens more for different specialties) Every code is used on every commercial building. The OBC is around 600 pages, NEC is probably close to that, plus the other adds up to close to 1500 pages of "stuff" to comply with. Occupant load is based on building Square Foot and use. Every SF needs accounted for with a use and occupant/SF. If you occupant load is a lot different then the calculated you can ask for an "actual" occupant load to be used. I would guess your calculated load to be around 25-30. This occupant load would affect your exit requirements, and restroom count and type. There are different thresholds for one having 1 exit (under 49 for a 'B' use IIRC.) Also different thresholds for restroom quantity and type, single unisex restroom or separate mens & womans depending on building use group. Fire suppression can be triggered by occupant load, but it most commonly required based on fire area (over 12,000 SF per area) or use group (H or Hazardous use) Occupant load trigger is usually only meet in assembly uses. That's a complete non issue with the size and occupant load of your building, unless you plan on storing barrels of flammable liquids, or lots of full propane tanks. Of course there are lots of exceptions and special requirements that adjust all of those numbers. Fresh air requirement is a calculation that is based on SF to determine occupant load (different from the earlier number as this is in the mechanical code) times ?? divided by ??? = ??. I have not clues the number as I don't have the code in front of me. Fresh air requirements are separate of combustion air requirements. As for electrical, it wold depend on you local. Here, the service entrance needs installed by a licensed contractor, and then inspected by the utility. Commercially a registered contractor needs to do everything, but in most places for residential the home owner can do the work after the SE. I just want to make sure I'm clear here, I'm not knocking how your doing your project. If it were me I would not have gotten a permit for a commercial building either (although I would have waited until I was done to put it on the WWW) I would have sub'd out a lot of the labor consuming work just because I don't have the extra time. 95% of people could build what you are doing and never worry about a permit other then local zoning. It's the 5% of people that would be in a world of hurt if they tried it and got caught that George & I worry about. The average smith that sells even a few $$$ worth of product every year could get a way with a lot and be under the radar, a school on the other hand could raise some flags. I do remember someone on here a few years ago asking question because he was having difficulty with his inspector and some code issues when trying to open a trade school. He might have been in Canada??? Once again, the main thing is COMMERCIAL vs RESIDENTIAL. Most of the stuff I talked about does not apply 95% of the time for residential (**there's always disclaimers, unless your local enforces all residential codes) I'm sure I missed something, but it's been a long day. In a nut shell, the code SUCKS. It take hours to go through all of the different aspects of a building for a complete code analysis......and the the plans examiner always finds some obscure section that requires something.....like gloss paint in restrooms (yes that's a thing I have been called out on)

Yes John I did see that thread. It's always interesting the projects you come up with....Unfortunately I don't have any knowledge that would be helpful for that build. After thinking about it more I find it somewhat odd that the original ones were steel for a wood cutting saw. You would think that they would want the friction and chance of spark around the wood dust. I was also thinking that the main reason I didn't like my "cool block" style guides on my wood saw was more when cutting curves, which I cant see you doing much with your saw.

Yes, building/codes/construction is my thing. My post were meant more to clarify/expand on George's comment and for general IFI info more so then how they pertain to your project. You at least seem to have a basic knowledge of building codes which from my experience most people do not. If you or the mod's feel they are not appropriate they are free to delete them. There are some slight inaccuracies in your post, but if you local building guy is OK with what you are doing they are all irrelevant anyways. As long as they aren't going to cause any issues your golden. The worst part about long multi page post is that any info more then a page or two back has a tendency to get lost if not brought back up, hence me missing the hammer part. But I've also worked with too many conservative engineers over they years so I would always err on the side of auction..... I apologize if I came off as telling you you are doing something wrong, or digging into your business as that was not my intent. Good luck with your project. Tom

Yeah that's way tighter then on my Jet, but overall the setup I was expecting. I'll stick with my first recommendation and try brass to start with. I wouldn't spend any more time then necessary until you know how it will work for you.

Old Crew, are your saws wet or dry? IIRC our dry saws both use bearings and our wet saws use blocks. My assumption being friction & wear not being a problem with the blade lubrication/cooling fluid but may be a problem with dry? John, I'm not sure how those older saws are setup for guide blocks but it may be worth checking to see if you can find a set of guide bearings. Mine is a larger Jet saw and the guide block attachment points are square which is common on more newer wood saws. There might be a fine line on yours between maintaining blade position and creating too much friction.

Being for profit or non profit does not change how you fall into the building code, the use is still the same. Profit or non-profit would affect tax base though, along with several other things. Had that been established before the start all materials could have been purchased with no sales tax paid, with the proper documentation. I may also be a little sensitive to this as well. It seems every few years we get a client that calls us after the fact and they are having an issue with one of our local building departments and needs some help. In all of the states I've done work in commercial projects have always been required to comply with a form of the International Building Code (IBC.) In my area commercial is regulated by either the state of a local building department depending on the county/city you are in. Residential is hit and miss as some counties/city's have a building department and enforce residential code and some do not. Some will require plumbing or electrical permits & inspections but nothing building wise. Others will required a permit for a house but not for a accessory structure. One I know of requires building a electrical permits for small accessory building. As I said, residential is very hit and miss, but commercial is very consistent. I actually have a friend going through it right now as well. He wanted to build a brewery/bar. I told him from the start the proper path to take and he would not listen. He has now been fighting with the local heath department for close to a year because he didn't get a building permit and doesn't have proof of what he did..... This next part is not necessarily for JLP as she is close to finishing her project, but for other members that may be thinking about a similar project. Even though the money side is a lot more it sometimes makes sense to hire a project out. A good contractor might have cost twice as much, but something this size would have been done in 5-7 weeks from start to finish. There are missed opportunity cost from having both money and time tied up for long periods, and from delayed income potential. Running a cost/income analysis both ways can sometimes be an eye opening experience and should be done before every major project begins. Even though I have been in construction for a long time, there are some things I wouldn't do myself. A good crew can accomplish more in 3 days then I can in 3 months working by myself only working nights and weekends. Case in point, I had a pole barn built a few years ago (32'x56'x16' eave.) They had it built in 3 days where as it would have been 2-4 months for me to get it done, the $4k in labor was well worth it. I don't mean to diminish what Jenifer has done. She has taken on a larger project then most could handle and is close to finishing what she started. That is a big accomplishment.

I switched my wood saw out to ball bearing guide rollers as I didn't like the constant adjustment of the stock "cool block" style guides. I would try brass rod and see how it goes. If they don't hold up how you expect give some mild steel a try.

I’m going to drop my 2 cents which is worth exactly what you paid for it. As for your planned layout, the biggest issue I would have is the car lift. At a minimum I would slide it into a corner somewhere, but even better would be to slide it out of the building. I get what your trying to do, but I wouldn’t mix work (the school/forging) with play (working on cars.) I would hold off on that and only install into building IF the school doesn’t work out and this building becomes your personal garage. I would think an office would be a good idea. If you ever plan on having other instructors, or open forge nights of any kind then the more glass the better so you can “supervise” from a distance if need be. I didn’t look at your plan that close, but I would also make sure you incorporate a large enough area for a lockable tool crib for your personal tools. One comment George made earlier I would like to clarify is about codes. While some utilities or rural areas may get confused on which code to apply where, the building code is pretty cut and dry on what type of building it does and does not apply to. Unfortunately with your intended use you fit squarely into the commercial code with this project. I hope when you said you have talked to the local people and they are on board with your plans you meant your local building department? If someone down the road makes you get a Certificate or Occupancy (CO) you may be in a mess trying to prove your building complies as it probably does not. In most jurisdictions a CO is required for any change of building use, and all new buildings used for commercial purposes. George does bring up a good point on summer cooling & ventilation. As I mention at the beginning of your project, I do think you need some exhaust fans and louvers. One key point of hearing and cooling in fresh air. Wether it be summer or winter you should be bringing some fresh air into the building. I think some of your headaches of caused by using a residential mindset for a commercial project. Unfortunately they are two different animals. You electrical service problem is one of these issues. An electrician or engineer that’s familiar with the situation can sometimes ask the right questions to lead the power company to the outcome they want. While having two services isn’t unheard of in this area it not as common as it used to be. If your building are relatively close to each other they would probably ask for a single service to feed both structures. On farm/grain bin sites it’s still fairly common to have separate services when there is considerable distance from the farm house. There are fairly easy ways to do this and a local electrician would know what the power company prefers. Yes it will cost more now but may save you in the long run. Depending on your home power needs you may even be able to use 400a for everything. In my earlier post on floor slab recommendations I didn’t catch the multiple large power hammers and car lift. A 5” slab may be ok for the lift, but some require more depending on capacity. There will also be a distance from any control joint you need to maintain. The power hammers would make me nervous. If it were mine I would isolate a foundation for at least the big one, possibly all of them? Maybe an isolation mat under the hammer would be enough though? I haven’t been around or used a power hammer thought so maybe I’m assuming they cause move vibration and shock loading then they do? Once again, just my 2cents. Tom

Thanks. The body took way more time then I care to admit, and there are a few things I would like to add for the next one but I’m pretty happy with it. My wife loves dragonflies and butterflies so I think I might try a dragonfly next.

Daswulf, I'm loving the fish. It looks great. I finished up the rest of the stuff I needed to for Christmas the last couple days. Some more wall hooks for my family and a butterfly for the wife.

This is the first group of stuff I have finished up. I’m still a little rusty after a few months away from the forge.