Dave Hammer

I like 6013 with an AC welder. It will weld dirty and rusty steel. I'm no expert, but I have used hundreds of pounds of rod with an AC arc welder (the first 25 years of experience was using a Wards welder like you showed a picture of in this thread). I have never had a weld fail.

You will have better luck if you use soft firebrick. Hard firebrick takes a LONG time to heat up. I'm not sure that propane torch will put out enough BTU's to heat a forge.

Soft fire brick can be bought from (or through) a ceramics supply store (local or online) or some of the folks that sell blacksmith supplies online. Look for the rough surface bricks and they will last longer (I buy 2600 degree soft bricks). Did you make a flare, or are you going to order one? In general, burners will not run (outside forges) without a flare. I use stainless flares because they are supposed to stand up to the the heat from the burn chamber better than just steel. I also need to mention that the tip of the burner (flare) needs to be up in the thermal blanket (or hole in brick or refractory) about an inch or so (don't stick the end down into the burn chamber or it will burn right away). A short term flare can be made using a 3 inch length of 1 inch pipe slid over the burner body and held with a set screw (set it half way on, then adjust it's position while running the burner to get the best looking blue flame). That flare substitute will work without a taper (just less efficiently). You can replace it later with a stainless flare. I should also mention that you can build a quick simple forge and use it with just thermal blanket in your freon tank without ridigizer or reflective coating. It is just a less efficent forge (and not quite as healthy, because it can blow out burned particles of thermal blanket). You could even get away without a floor, although I wouldn't recommend that. If you don't put in the horizontal slot, you don't need sodium silicate to hold the thermal blanket in place (just cut it a little long and stuff the ends of the thermal blanket together as you put it in and it will stay in place). I used a forge like that for a long time before I learned the advantages of adding the reflective coating, sliding doors and a horizontal slot. If you do this and want to upgrade it later (ridgidize and add reflective coating), you may have to replace the thermal blanket. The simplest forge might not even have a pass through opening in the back.... or you could cut a small hole in the back before lining, then line the forge as if that hole isn't there. After the lining is in, us a thin kitchen knife to cut the insulation away (like you are carving a pumpkin) from the outside (you may need to hold the insulation on the inside end with your hand as you cut through (carefully). That small hole can be plugged with a piece of thermal blanket when you don't need it open.

The stainless pipe needs to slip over the main burner body, which determines the "insided diameter" size of the narrow end of the flare. If you order a stainless flare, you need to specify your burner pipe size. There should be flares available for 1/2", 3/4" and 1" pipe burners. Be aware, if you use pipe (for your burner bodies) other than "schedule 40" pipe, all bets are off whether or not a commercially available flare will fit. Schedule 40 pipe is the common size and thickess you would find in any hardware store. When I look at recycling yards for stainless pipe (to make flares with), I carry a short piece of schedule 40 pipe with me to see if the stainless pipe will slide over it. The fit doesn't need to be super tight, but there shouldn't be a lot of slop either.

Are the firebrick you have soft or hard? Folks use both kinds, but it takes a LOT longer to heat a forge made with hard fire brick (the brick absorb a lot of heat)... Good luck with whichever you use. Also, there are more than one kind of soft brick. Some have a smooth surface, and some have a rough surface. The smooth surface bricks break apart easier. I recommend the rough surface soft fire bricks. I have used both.

kwp.... I will be putting together a video covering how I make the forge I put the video burner in. It may be a couple months before it comes up on YouTube, so I will give you some advance info here.... I have seen LOTS of forges made with freon tanks. They make good forges. One issue though, the Freon tank forges I’ve seen have simple swinging doors. There are lots of forge designs that work well, but if you want to make one similar to the one in my burner video, I’m not sure a Freon tank would be suitable. How you make your forge may be dependent upon what skills you have. If you don’t do welding, you will either need to find a friend that does, or use a design that doesn’t require welding. A Freon tank is a great shell to build a forge with if you don’t have welding skills. Doors and legs can be put on with hinges using rivets, screws or small bolts. Some folks just make a platform and use soft (or hard) bricks in front of the openings. I have also built forges just out of soft brick, stacking them to the size and configuration I need. The burner will need to be supported somehow if you do this to get started. If you are a really skilled welder, you could probably use a Freon tank to make the design I use. Personally, I like my forge bodies heavier than a Freon tank (I’m not that good at welding yet). For my round forges, I generally use a section of a large oxygen cylinder (however, any steel cylinder heavy enough to weld channel to would work). I cut the oxygen cylinder with zip discs. For my doors, I weld (regular weight) 3 inch “C” channel on the forge body and use soft fire brick for sliding doors. I also cut a horizontal slot in the side, weld on a small table on the bottom of the opening and use soft fire brick to close that slot when I don’t need it open. Soft firebrick can be cut with a handsaw or shaped with a farrier’s rasp. It will ruin the saw, so don’t use one that you need to cut wood with (I buy old saws at yard sales and flea markets for this). Generally, I put my forges on a pipe with a round base so they are easy to move around my shop (tilt and roll). I cut a coupler (for the pipe size) in half and weld it onto the bottom of the forge. Doing that lets me take the forge off of the pipe for transporting it to a demo or ??. I line my forges with one inch thermal wool (like Kaowool). I use sodium silicate (buy from a ceramics supply store) to hold the blanket in place (brush onto both surfaces). I put one layer all the way around the forge first, then fit a floor over that one inch blanket that sticks up a little higher than the shelf on the bottom of the horizontal slot. Then I add a second layer of thermal blanket from the floor…. up and around to the horizontal opening (again using sodium silicate to adhere the two layers together. I use a refractory for the floor that will stand up to flux. I use Plastek 85P, which I order from ANH (55 lb box of ramable). If you could find a source for a solid refractory board (like for a kiln) you could cut to size (diamond blade in an angle grinder), it would be less expensive. Another alternative is to buy refractory powder and cast a floor. I have used thin hard brick (half inch is best, but 1 inch will work also) for floors, but only in small forges (this is a good choice if you are satisfied with a 4.5 x 9 inch floor (I’m not in my most_used forge). That size floor may work in a freon tank forge. The floor needs to be thin so it doesn’t take too long to heat up to forging temperatures. After the sodium silicate has dried, I use a ridigizer (like Ins-Tuff…. Google for sources) to make the thermal blanket stiff. After this step, I recommend you use some product to put a coating on the thermal blanket, like ITC-100 or something you can use as a thin layer of refractory rated at 2400-2600 degrees or more. The refractory could be covered with a reflective coating also. Putting some kind of coating on the thermal blanket is important to get an efficient forge (thermal blanket can be used alone, but your forge will not get as hot). Using just thermal blanket, a ridigizer and ITC-100 (or similar product) should produce an acceptable forge. The lining can even be made more efficient…… I use a mix of colidal silica and milled zircon (zirconium silicate) as my coating over the ridigizer. I also sometimes use AP Green T-36 mortar mix as a refractory layer over that mix (after it has been fired and dries), then put another coating of the colidal silica/milled zircon mix. This…. I learned from a friend that makes and uses glass blower’s glory holes. I haven’t found a source that will sell me milled zircon (I buy mine from my glass making friend). Ins-Tuff (easily available) is colidal silica. North American Refractories (Narco) sells milled zircon, but didn’t respond to my inquires. I buy mine from my glass_bead making friend (a favor to me from him). I believe I could find a source if I need to, but I’m not sure small quantities could be purchased. I do intend to follow up on this. This stuff is (apparently) usually only sold to industrial customers. I suspect ITC-100 could be used successfully over the T-36 mortar successfully, but I have not tested it. A scientist I know says he thinks ITC-100 has milled zircon in it. This is a lot of information. Don't let it scare you into thinking making your own forge is difficult. If you are handy and have some fabrication skills, it is easy. One other thing... before I started using sodium silicate to hold thermal blanket in place, I used inconel wire to hold up the thermal blanket. These pictures were taken long ago and show how that was done. I drilled holes in the forge casing and bent inconel wire into staples, pushed them through the blanket and bent them over on the inside of the blanket to hold it up.... That works also. I purchased inconel wire from ceramic supply houses. Lots of luck.

Thomas... Be nice....

Roy... Soft fire bricks are almost as easy to cut as styrofoam. I use an old carpenter saw and/or a farrier's rasp to shape mine. If you put your 3" channel about nine and a quarter inches apart (inside measurement, and parallel), you should only need to shave a taper off both sides on the top and bottom. Be sure they slide easy, or you will be breaking them. Also, they do degrade because of the heat (over time), so you have to replace them occasionally. Best of luck.... Dave

Roy.... I hope you had fun making the burners... First of all, I'd like to clarify that don't consider myself an expert at making burners or forges, only someone with a fair amount of experience building and using them..... and I like showing others what I have learned. I don't know what your actual needs are, but from my perspective, the forge you are building is very large. If there is a reason you need one that large (project wise), that is fine, but if you are like most of us when we started playing with gas forges.... and are going to be working on small projects, a smaller forge may be more suitable, at least for your general everyday use. In my case, currently.... my most used propane forge has an eight inch shell (outside diameter) and is about eight and one half inches long. I use two layers of (ridigized) one inch thermal blanket (like Kaowool) and cover that with a reflective coating. The thermal blanket is pressed to about 1.5 inches thick. I have a hard flat refractory floor (actually put in after the first inch of thermal blanket, so it only has an inch of thermal blanket under it. This size forge has well under 200 cubic inches of burn chamber. I use a single burner (made with 3/4 inch pipe). I have made (and use) other smaller and larger forges, but still use the one I just described the most. There is information on the net referencing how many cubic inches of burn chamber can be supported by each burner. This will vary with the capability of the burner (and the efficiency of the forge), but for the most part, the consensus seems to be up to 350 cubic inches per burner made with 3/4 inch pipe. Assuming that you are going to have a two inch layer of insulation, your burn chamber would be a little over 1800 cubic inches (pi*radius squared*length...actual cubic inches will be less if you have a flat floor). So, the guidelines would indicate that you need at least five burners. How many burners you would actually need would be a consequence of how you manage the use of propane and the efficiency of the forge. Personally, I wouldn't put more than four burners on a forge. If I needed more heat than 3/4 inch burners could put out, I would consider a larger diameter pipe for the burners or consider a blown burner design. I have used one inch pipe for burners.... not for the design in my video, but I see no reason it wouldn't work (I'd expect you would need a larger mig tip). Concerning putting shut off valves on each burner.... Two issues there.... First, if the burner is on the top of the forge and is not burning, and the aspiration holes are not covered, it will act as a chiminey, letting heat out. I don't know for sure if this would damage the burner orifice, but I would expect it would shorten the life of the flare. Secondly, generally, the burners heat the forge to forging temp, and radiant heat heats your project. If you are not running enough burners to heat the entire burn chamber to forging temps, it is unlikely you will get your metal to a forging temp. The only exception would be if you only need a hot spot in the forge (directly under the burner) to heat your project. Another topic needs to be addressed.... Your forge needs to have a proper lining to work in an efficient manner. How are you planning to line your forge and what type of doors, if any, are you going to use?

I weld C-channel (3-inch standard) on the ends of my forges and use soft fire brick for the doors. I also cut a slot in the side and weld a little table on the bottom.... and use soft fire brick for a door there when I don't want it open... Soft fire brick can be cut with any hand saw (yes, it is hard on the saws) and/or course file. I cut the brick so it can easily be slid back and forth. Works well for me. I do this with both round and box forges.

Justin... You need to get your mig tip first, then determine what the threads are. I have found the one's I have bought have been either 1/4 20, or 1/4 28. Neither were pipe thread (I don't think I've ever seen a pipe thread on a mig tip). You shouldn't need to buy a whole tap set. You can buy just a single tap (big box store) that includes the proper sized drill bit. Good luck..... If you don't have a thread gauge (most of us wouldn't), you can compare the threads to that on a regular 1/4 inch bolt (not fine thread) at a hardware store. That would would be 1/4-20. If the thread on your mig tip is a little finer... it is most likely 1/4-28. I'm not sure I've seen a "tap and drill bit" set for 1/4-28, but I have bought several 1/4-20 sets.

Thanks...

I posted a new video on YouTube this morning which shows how to build a simple propane burner. It can be viewed at www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxzdqcPzXj8&feature=channel It's long for a YouTube video, but I can assure you that you will, with minimal tools, be able to build a burner that will produce forge welding temps in a properly insulated (and sized) forge.

Sam Of course you can make your own dies without heavy machinery. The first power hammer I bought (in 2005) was a 50# Little Giant and it didn't have dies. I made these with a cutoff saw, a belt sander and elbow grease.

I mark most of my leaves. I put my mark on the back before I texture (vien) the front. I make the mark deep, so when I texture the front, the mark isn't entirely washed out. You could try viening on a block of hardwood to preserve the mark, but if the mark is deep, I doubt it's necessary. After I texture the front of the leaf, I also turn it over onto a wooden swage and use a ballpien hammer to push the center of the face out.

Watch this.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X62dDh_9on0&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

Nice work Mike!

You did well Sam.... $5 was an acceptional price for a great tool.

Based upon those responses, I would think there are no anvils in Minnesota. If you are patient, I suspect you will find what YOU are looking for.

You are courting disaster if you don't have the proper equipment to load and move your table. Lifting and moving something heavy is tricky enough (as an amateur) to do safely. Dragging it (something that I have never seen done by a professional) off a stand to get it loaded has to be a lot more dangerous. There is a reason it costs that much to move equipment safely. It is not uncommon for it to cost more than (you paid for) a piece of equipment to get it moved and into place. Rent an equipment trailer and take the forklift to use it.

Where are you located? I would suggest you attend a blacksmith conference where one of the demonstrations is taking iron ore to a bloom. Sometimes the furnace is built before the conference, sometimes the furnace is built during the conference. The person who builds the furnace is generally the person working with the ore. I don't know of any that are currently scheduled (search the internet for conference schedules and planned demonstrations), but they are not unusual. I have been to at least 3 or 4 conferences where this has been done. The last couple times I saw it done was at Blacksmith Days in May, put on by BGCM in Westminster, MD.

Tractor Supply Co. (TSC) sell 0-60 PSI regulators for around $20. If you want a gauge, you have to buy it separate.

My 3B is 285 lbs with the die.

My favorite is clear Butcher's Bowling Alley Wax. It is pricey, but worth every penny. It used to be available at big box stores, but now I can only find it online.....

I'm not sure 6" of concrete would be much more value than heavy 6 x 6's (and I would have concerns about it cracking). The entire concrete slab would add significant weight to the hammer unit, but the only weight that would help with the ram/anvil ratio would be the concrete directly under the anvil (cone downward). I doubt it would significantly change the forging action (beyond what heavy solid 6x6's would provide). If you are going to go with concrete and it's not much larger than the base of the hammer, I wouldn't do less than 12", and probably (personally) would recommend at least 18". If my goal was to increase the ram/anvil weight ratio (and still be able to move the hammer), I would add a thick steel plate (3 inches thick or more) under the hammer, and put a hardwood base over the steel to get the height I want.