billyO

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention, but obviously I found my hammer.... ;)

Thanks to Alec at the NWBA conference at Midnight Madness on Friday for striking a bit for me. I finally got to spend a couple more hours on it, cleaned it up a bit and have the fingers about 90% split. I'll post more when I get back to it (hopefully this weekend).

Thanks for all the replies, and please keep them coming! I'll probably have my thoughts compiled/organized in a couple of months, after I get more info. and do more research. Frank - Thanks for jumping in and leading us off. I'm glad you didn't go for the ortho replacement. That would have been a nightmare recovery process. Re: the Tai Chi, I would recommend this, yoga, or any other gentle, controlled end-range stretching program for all smiths. The key to keeping physically able is to maintain a balance of joint flexibility/stability, flexor/extensor strength and work the body equally, in all directions. Denise/Nobody/Frank - My guess would have been elbow/shoulder/wrist/thumb as most likely candidates for overuse injuries and possibly/probably from faulty mechanics for the particular body of the smith. rockstar - Yes, too simple an answer. But she was probably right for 1/2 the population. I have contradictory thoughts on this one, maybe I'll figure this one out. Thanks again.

Hello all. First, I wanted to say I had a good weekend at the NWBA conference, and enjoyed talking to everyone. I’m still amazed at the opportunity these conferences give us to learn from and rub elbows with the likes of Darryl Nelson. How fortunate we are. We had the pleasure of observing a ‘young’ smith at work, and it was fun watching Alec move metal. It was also fun hearing all the differing opinions about forging with those heavy hammers. Which is the main reason for this post which is a request. Now, I don’t want to get into a discussion on the merits of one individual technique/belief/myth over another, I’m merely looking for information. I’m interested in researching the biomechanically correct postures for forging. Through some conversations, it was suggested that as a physical therapist, (physiotherapist for the rest of the Globe), I weigh in with my knowledge/opinion. With many years of treating musculoskeletal injuries through postural corrections and teaching patients to exercise specific muscles, I’m confident that if any of you were to come to me with pains, I could guide you to recovery of pain-free function. I’m not 100% confident I could weigh in on the “correct” biomechanics of forging yet, not due to lack of knowledge of the body, but lack of information on what musculoskeletal injuries are common. At this point, I could only give basic general postural guidelines, not specific suggestions, because you can’t fix what you don’t know is broken, and ‘if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.’ (Ok, so maybe I did weigh in with my belief/myth…) ;) If anyone could point me to articles/research on common blacksmithing injuries (I doubt there are any) or if y’all would be willing to share your experiences, that’d be great. And for clarity, no offense to the hobbyists out there like me, but info from full time smiths (SOBs as Grant used to say) would be more useful for studying repetitive use injuries due to smithing. If you want to send info by e-mail feel free (patient privacy and all….) :rolleyes: Thanks billyO

Yup. My '93 Dodge Ram 250 5.9L diesel will hit 364,000 tomorrow. Here's the only presentable view....

I'd try taking 3/4" - 1" sq, make a blunt point, then neck down about 3/4" from the end with a guilotine tool or spring fullers to say, maybe 3/8" round, and then shape the center point. Then flatten the area below the neck (on the diamond) and maybe use a cross pein to spread and move the material where you need to, chisel and shape as needed, You may need to bend each wing 90 deg to work them.

Hilt - you may have motivated me to do something similar today (unless the garden calls). I'm curious about the twist/fullering it looks like you've got going on your tongs, there.

Fun videos, guys! Keep up the good work. Look forward to watching/meeting Alex in 2 weeks in Longview, WA.

I've got one like Frank's and others with the large holes, and don't use the holes much. I use the edges a lot, split between forging with the varoius shapes and a holder for working not square stock on the anvil when I need a top tool and about 2 more hands...(sometimes I regret my committment to the bachelor life while living on a farm. Maybe ONE kid would have been a good idea...But then you'd want that kid to have a sibling, so that makes TWO kids...but, 4 extra hands would sure be nice at times....)

Hello all. IMO the big advanatge of the post vice v. the machinist vice is SIZE. I'm learning that in some things, size DOES matter. You can get more grip because the handles are most likely longer (more foot pounds of torque) and you can whack on them because that handles are thicker (~3/4" dia) on mine and the threads can take the abuse because they, too are beefier. Mr.bigfootnampa - My first (and only) vice for years was a 4 1/2", until I got a 6" last fall. I Like it a lot, and have even used my 16# sledge on it a few times. Only thing that happened was I loosened my concrete anchors so now I have a wobbly vice.

I like to do this a lot too. At first, I thought is was just me not paying attention to details like brushing frequently (which it probably was), but then as I started to really pay attention to keeping the piece clean of scale, I realized I like the texture that scale gives.

Hello all. Here's my thought (remember, you asked!): All of the above is good advice. but here's what I think is a summary of the best: 1. Spent the $50 on a membership to your local Blacksmithing organization. 2. Go to the meetings, let folks know you are willing to work and learn and BE NICE! 3. Use the time that you are rebuilding your savings helping the closest smith that wants your help, and when they are getting a heat on their project, use the heat from the forge to tinker under their guidance, paying attention to what they are suggesting (providing your own steel is a nice touch, but often not necessary). 4. Try to get more than one smith to teach you (everyone has 'their' way of doing it right). 5. When you buy anvils and vices, don't skimp on price, buy as big as you can. My first anvil was 85# and my first vice was had 4": jaws. I quickly (within a month or two) realized I wanted/needed bigger. I now wish my first outlay of cash was for either a bigger anvil or bigger vice, because I did upgrade, and now have both. Neat 'cause I've got 2 anvils and 2 vices, but much more $ was spent. 6. Most importantly, have FUN!

Here's what I do on my 85# Trenton that holds well and allows for easy anvil removal for transportation. Made with 1/4" x 1" with about a 3-4 inch taper with no barbs on my points. If it starts to loosen during use, a quick tap on the corners makes me solid again.

Not to be redundant, but, Holy cow, Zigmund! I've just started playing with pattern welding, but my intent has been on sculptural pieces, and I've said many times I have no interest in making knives, but for me, you may have permanently blurred the line between a knife and art. I'm not sure what to call your work. Wait, it's obvious what to call your work. Absolutely Beautiful.

Hello all. I've been practicing my forge welding of billets in preparation for getting into pattern welding. I used 4, 5" layers of 0.125 x 1" mild steel held together with 2 loops of wire wrapped 2x each that were ground and filed to get to bare steel Took a red heat, fluxed, brought up to welding heat, and "set" (not sure if this is the right term) the weld on one side, re-fluxed, back in the fire. Second weld heat, "set" the other side of the stack, and back into the fire (can't remember if I fluxed again, probably did, though). 3rd welding heat I worked down the length of both sides of the stack, then squared up the billet, working until a bright red-orange color. Wire brushed, back into the fire and on the 4th heat (a good yellow), put the billet in the vice, twisted 2 full turns, then started un-twisting. I got 1/2 turn back when I felt a "pop" that told me a weld failed (my intent). The end result was the middle weld failed for only 3/4-1" in length about 1/16-3/32" deep near where the vice jaws were. My question: Was this an extremely violent test of the billet (like I hoped) and if I were to have treated this stack of welds to more normal forging (more heats to draw out and shape) would this have been a successful weld? thanks

I agree with the pilot hole, that may be the most important part with large spikes in a small post. RE: Finish: I like beeswax wiped on when hot, especially indoors Regarding price, this seems to be an ongoing discussion in virtual as well as real life among smiths. Although I've sold some items at fairs, and had a few "commissions" I won't be an SOB (Sole Occupation Blacksmith, RIP Grant) until I retire, if ever, but I am fortunate to know and be friends with a few prominent SOBs. I understand their opinion, which is very much like that as above, you must charge the going rate that they (the SOBs) charge. This is so the public won't shift resources to the hobbyist who usually has another, full-time paying job that can subsidize the smithing. When I'm demonstrating with the SOBs, I price my stuff the same as they do (and realize that I'm only making ~$15-20/hr there). However, I also realize that I'm no Darryl Nelson, and have no business trying to sell one of my animal heads for $1000. When I've got a specific request/commission, I shoot for a more reasonable living wage, but am always willing to be flexible depending on the situation because I remember that for me, at this moment, this is my fun time (In fact, it seems to have replaced fishing....hmmm....), or if you'd rather, my apprentice-ship. Charge what you want, just realize the impact your decisions may have on others...

Hi all (I say with mild trepidation as I stick my toe into the water while searching my pocket for my dos centavos. Tossing them in...) This conversation reminds me of a situation I ran into about 10 years ago in my profession. As a physical therapist who had to go to medical school and take out student loans, has practiced for 17 years, has started and owned outpatient clinics, and who is consistently reviewing his practice techniques, I can honestly say that 70-80% of what I do, which is to teach patients the proper and safe exercises to maximize recovery, anyone can do. Anyone who has read and is able to apply basic exercise priciples can teach people the safe way to perfoms exrecises. But that's not the entirety of phsycial therapy. About 10-12 years ago, in the city where I had just opened a new practice, one of my paitents owned a health club, and after working with me for a few months rehabbing a torn rotator cuff (and, apparently, paying attention to how I treated patients), started advertising that he and his health club provided "physical therapy" services, but had no Licensed PT on staff. At first, I laughed it off, but other therapists in the area convinced me to join them in forcing him to stop the false advertising because of (here's the crux of the matter) the potential impact on our livelihoods. We could do this because there are laws regulating that only licensed PTs can advertise as providing PT services. He could teach exercises, but there was no guarantee that the exercises would be appropriate for each persons specific medial condition. I guess the question is, "what percentage of the knowledge of the craft is necessary to claim the title?" So....I agree with the thought the thoughts that you can call yourself a Blacksmith if you are smithing, but realize that for those who actually make a living at it may not agree with you. And they have good reasons for pointing out the differences, their livelihood depends on setting themselves apart from the rest of us. Unfortunately, the only way to solve this once and for all is to create a law defining what a smith is, something I'm NOT proposing...

Doesn't seem to work here in the PNW. Perhaps a different technique is required for those of us here on the "left coast"?

"its PUGH MAN , the }{ is a H ! my last name is Pugh"... Thanks for clarifying, I was wondering, that was one off my thoughts.

Hello everyone. It seems there are similarities...I've been involved in apple cider and distilling for a few years, 2 years ago got bees, and this past October started wine and mead (6 gal of plum wine from my plum tree and 2 gals of mead thanks to my bees). How long would y'all recommend waiting before sampling...I was planning on at least 6 mo, but realize a year would be better. I've heard longer for mead, is that your experience? thanks

Unfortunately, it looks like they were dropped on the way to the keyboard....

Now Mike brings up probably the best argument for either side (why didn't I think of that?). Thanks for thinking out of the box, Mike.

I'm glad you added the "semi", because, as you no doubt realize, you were only able to control 3 out of many variables (1) number of heats, (2) number of blows, and (3) to boogie or not to boogie (which is the question). There were no adequate controls for: force of impact, speed/rate of blows, accuracy of blows, accuracy of the boogie, consistent placement of piece on horn, temperature of steel, among others I may not be grouping in these generalizations. So 'semi' may be too generous. You started to apply the scientific method, for sure, and controlled what you could to the extent you could, but nowhere near scientific quality, so perhaps a better wording would have been "semi, scientific-ish" test. I only bring this up because of numerous comments over the years on this site of how this is an educational site, and I would not want an uninformed individual to read this thread and then think that this is a representative test of how the material behaves. PS - I hope this isn't just one more step in my turning into a crumudgeon.....

I agree, with all of the above, and when drawing larger (1 1/2"+) stock, you can see the color change (get hotter) with each strike moreso than when not doing the "Boogie". But I am by no means an expert on this matter. Or many others now that I think about it...

Hi Dave. Not sure if I'm missing something here, but as a physiotherapist by profession for the past 17 years, it seems to me that we're overthinking the problem. You say he can tie knots, whittle, and grip 1" stock? I'd like to know how strong he can grip it, but if he's been independent with this hand for years, my guess is it's good and strong. If the above is true, then all we should have to do is adjust the reins (angle, diameter, shape, etc) on any set of tongs where he needs to grip it to allow him to grip 1" or wherever he is strongest. The only limitation I can see is the size of stock he'll be able to effectively handle under a power hammer, as heavier stock needs heavier tongs and he'll be limited by the diameter of the tongs at his grip.