problems ergonomic "hofi style" hammer - solved

[hans138]

i just got a ergo hammer from pieh tool co and the eye was drifted 1/8th" off center. it really doesnt feel right but ive never really swung a ergonomic hammer before. does anyone have any input on the subject, should i exchange it or do these hammers just naturally feel real wonky??

Post # 60 of THIS thread is shown in red.

Hans138 has a hammer that he thinks has a problem. He HAS NOT contacted the seller in order to resolve the issue.
Hans did not purchase an original Hofi hammer and Hans did not purchased the hammer from a authorized Hofi dealer or distributor. The thread has continued to cast shadows on the original Hofi hammer and Hofi neither of which was ever involved.
This post will be added to the original post so people do not have to read 60 posts to get to this point.
The topic is closed.

[Naz]

I got one from Blacksmith supply, it is an ergonomic (Hoffi style) hammer stamped "BLU" (Big Blu).
Mine is centered and well balanced, first time I swung it, it became my #1 hammer.
I would definately contact the seller with a photo showing the off center eye and explain your un-comfort when working with it.

Not sure but I think other companies are also selling copies of this style of hammer that may not be of equal quality, is there a stamp on yours ?

Only bad side to mine is that it marks (dents) easily, other than that, I absolutely love working with it.
Price was $110.00 plus shipping (Ouch !!!) but in the long run, it pays for itself by moving metal faster than the other hammers I had.

[hans138]

its from pieh tool co its a pretty small company from what i knwo. there hand forged like most other places so prob just a minor screw up got through quality control. hope the the exchange one is perfectly balanced cause if not then ill have to hit up big blu

[MLMartin]

Save yourself some time and just send that thing back or just toss it in the trash. I have a swedish cross pein made by peddinghaus. Peddinghaus has been forging high quality tools for years. I have a vary long handle on mine, maybe 13 inch's. It take lots of practise to get good hammer control, but when you can swing it just where you want and have the hammer on a long handle there is a serious amount of force in every blow. And its only 35$. The corners come sharp just like a new anvil would. soften then slowly use the hammer some then adjust more to your liking. Mine has been going strong for 8 years now.

[Steve Sells]

IFI is the only north american outlet for the real Hofi hammer. Should have bought it from here. Send it back, soft hammers are not good

[Larry H]

Save yourself some time and just send that thing back or just toss it in the trash. I have a swedish cross pein made by peddinghaus. Peddinghaus has been forging high quality tools for years. I have a vary long handle on mine, maybe 13 inch's. It take lots of practise to get good hammer control, but when you can swing it just where you want and have the hammer on a long handle there is a serious amount of force in every blow. And its only 35$. The corners come sharp just like a new anvil would. soften then slowly use the hammer some then adjust more to your liking. Mine has been going strong for 8 years now.

I'm with you ("ergonomic ") Its amazing after all these thousands of years someone thought of something new,.........a way to get people to believe they invented something new. The placebo effect is rampant, after the first few million hammer blows perhaps they will understand....however, maybe not.....some still think there was no moon landing. Just imagine....using different angles of trajectory when you strike? unheard of....pure genius, to bad none of the master smiths before us never thought of that one....imagine the work they could have accomplished

[Timothy Miller]

LOL

[Frank Turley]

"Ergonomic" has become a buzz word. The author, Charles A. Cacha, has written "Ergonomics and Safety in Hand Tool Design." The subject gets complicated in its broad sense. The subject takes in "the total human." It includes psychological/behavioral issues dealing with sensation, perception, cognition and decision-making in addition to questions related to the body which include anatomy, physiology, kinesiology and biomechanics.

Even a narrower view is pretty involved, when zeroing in on hand tool use. I quote, "...a specific definition of ergonomics is the discipline which studies how human beings posture themselves in relationship to the many dfferent types of artifacts they have created. The artifacts vary in size and complexity and may include vehicles, buildings, furnishings, equipment, materials, controls, implements, and tools. The ergonomist applies the principles of anatomy, physiology, kinesiology and biomechanics to achieve a major mission: the control of musculoskeletal disease."

This book is not an easy read; it requires study. I suspect that it is a college text. Therefore, I find it ludicrous that the word "ergonomic' is tossed around and loosely used as an everyday adjective, especially in a marketing sense.

[Francis Trez Cole]

I agree with Frank. The study of Ergonomic's is a science I asked Uri for the facts to back up his claims, he has none and just because the hammer can set on the face of the anvil dose not mean its balances. His innovative hammering style is from Haberman. This is one of the best definitions of ergonomic that I have found.

“All work activities should permit the worker to adopt several different, but equally healthy and safe positions. Where muscular force has to be exerted it should be done by the largest appropriate muscle group available. Work activities should be performed with the joints at about mid-point of their range of movement. This applies particularly to the head, trunk, and upper limbs”.(Corlett 1983)

I am sure that Amy at Pieh tools will take it right back they are a great company

[Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver]

Yeah, some folks have referred to my tongs as "ergonomic tongs" (popular moniker I guess), but I prefer what one smith called them many years ago; Eye sweet and hand friendly.

[bajajoaquin]

I agree about returning it. Amy Peih is a real stand-up gal and will make things right.

[Bentiron1946]

What may be "ergonomic" for me could be pure agony for you so if it ain't comfortable for you send it back. This crap of one size fits all is the highest form of bull there is. My late father-in-law was 5'-6" tall and I'm was 6'-1" at the time he passed. My late mother-in-law gave me some of his dungarees to wear. She was always tickled that we both had the same inseam, 30", how could two men be so different in height but have the same pant size? I can't find gloves very often that will fit my hand, extra large are too small and most XXL are a tight fit but try and find something bigger! So where do you get an "ergonomic" hammer handle that fits all of our different sized hands? Give me a break! ;)

[Mainely,Bob]

Want a truly ergonomic hammer? Make it yourself.

[Timothy Miller]

The truth is you are a nube any you need to toughen up your hands and arm. A hammer don't need to be perfectly true and square. Its not like your arm is running on precisely parallel guides or something. I have about 30 hammers some of them true some not so the arm adjusts to the geometry of the situation. Its more about straining honestly. If it hurts its one of two things your pushing too hard or your out of shape. It takes judgement to know. Being in good physical shape helps a lot.

[eric sprado]

Nobody mentioned handle fit. You didn't really state your experience level. That would probably have a great effect on the types of replies you get.

[Francis Trez Cole]

Eric if you wonder about experiences look at the persons bio or google them, as for handle fit it is what fits your hand best. your fingers should wrap around the hand but not touch you thumb there should be a gap. then there is handle shape some people like a curved handle. Me I like a straight handle. I have posted 2 articular one called hammer myth or legend and the other ergonomics. on this site. you can also find them in video form on you tube. on my page nokomisforge

[hans138]

its not an issue of not having a tuff enough arm, ive been in construction for about 10 years. i have been blacksmithing for a year or so, and i can say for sure that of all the hammers i have ever swung none of them have ever felt as horrible as this one. i also have never swung a hand forged hammer at least not one of this weight (2 1/2 lbs) so the handle has always been dead center as far as left to right is concerned. i just want to know if its the handle being an 1/8th" off to the side or if pieh tools make crappy Czech style hammers, or if all hammers of these type are really just p.o.s.

also it seems that people just have a huge axe to grind with this whole subject. this isnt the first time ive come across it. there are 15 post on here and it seems to be pretty split between absolute love and utter hate. it seems that people really hate uri and his XXX.

were i went to school and learned blacksmithing my teacher had a few and 90% of the time that was what he was swinging, he loved them swore they were the best hammers. he was like me in the fact he didnt give a crap about uri or even care that he was trying to take credit for the hammer design or the "ergonomics" of proper hammer swinging. (any one would be a fool the belive he invented how to swing a hammer properly). and it seems like those who hate them really just hate uri and his propaganda. and those who like them dont give a hoot about that they just like results.

[David Einhorn]

I love my official Hofi hammers. That said, I have tried a cheap copy sold various places online and sometimes called a "Czech" hammer, and found that these cheap copies are absolute garbage. The faces of these cheap copies have soft faces, the handles are not right, and don't balance the same as a real Hofi hammer. I feel that it is very sad that people might get the wrong impression about Mr. Hofi's hammers from poorly made cheap imitations.

My personal opinion and experience is that Mr. Hofi is a gentleman, a true master blacksmith who has been generous in sharing high quality information. I do not understand why anyone would have less than a high opinion of this gentleman, and I have a difficult time understanding why they would have a less than high opinion of the products and information that he shares.

[Timothy Miller]

Driving nails and forging iron are done in very different postures and with different tools. I suck at driving nails I'm better at forging iron.

[Francis Trez Cole]

david I have a very high opinion of Uri. you are right he is a gentlemen and has shared a lot. What I have a problem with is absolutes there are many methods out there and not just one is correct. There are many smith who will tell you that putting your thumb on top of the handle is fine and they have done it for years. Its up to you to figure whats works best for you and at the end of the day can you get up and do it all again.

[David Einhorn]

Francis, in my youth I have had the fortune to take classes with a number of masters of martial arts. Not the self-made masters, but real masters who were/are recognized worldwide. My humble experience with them is that each of them had one way of doing what they were teaching, yet each of them often had their own way/preference of doing those same things. The advice given me was to make a sincere effort of doing things their way and try to understand their way. Were they wrong because they disagreed, probably not, but I never attained their skill level I had no way of judging. Could they all be right, possibly, people have different body types and physical limitations so one way of doing a block or strike might be easier or better for a person of a specific body type. Did I resent their attitude, proclamations of absolute only one way of doing something, and dictatorial natures? No, I was *extremely* grateful that they were honest and not providing misinformation that so many self-proclaimed 'master' martial artists tend to provide in order to keep their students from approaching their skill level thus challenging their claim to being a master.

In the over 38 years that I have been a hobbyist smith, I have met and attended presentations by a significant number of professional smiths. The experiences that I value highly are those where a highly skilled smith *passionately* tries to pass on information to the rest of us. That passion with any profession or skill many times emphasizes one "right way" to do something, whether it is blacksmithing, martial arts, or even computer programming. That just seems to be human nature no matter what the activity. I also have never attained the mastership in any activity to judge the skills, or the absolutes each person has advanced.

I

[Francis Trez Cole]

very well said David

[rthibeau]

A "Hofi Style" hammer is not a "Hofi Hammer". Every maker of tools can have a glitch in quality control and a bad one slips through, return it for a refund. I have true Hofi hammers, one forged, one cast, both are good hammers but I didn't like the handles, they don't fit me. Hofi was kind enough to give me the specs on his cast hammers so I could make my own with my own handle. It's one of my favorites in the 3 lb range. Also I made it from 4340 steel which I like in a hammer. If you buy a hammer that is too soft, you can heat treat it again. It's more difficult to do with the handle in, but can be done. Ergonomics is a buzz word used by many. IMHO if you aren't in the medical or science fields you shouldn't use it.

[HWooldridge]

Hammers are most definitely a personal choice. I attended a Hofi demo and handled his hammer; it was uncomfortably heavy for me. I've also worked over an anvil for almost 30 years and tried several styles and weights of hammers. I finally settled on a French pattern 3 lb and have never experienced any arm problems - but a 4 lb strains me, so I tend to subscribe to the "lighter, faster" school of hammering...to each, his own.

I also have to say that Hofi doesn't promote "propaganda". He is opinionated but backs his comments with action and can practice what he preaches.

[ThomasPowers]

In certain cultures people tend to be *VERY* *FORCEFUL* in their views and sharing them. If you work with them you do it THEIR WAY! Any other way is *WRONG*. You learn that this is their way and either learn to embrace it; ignore it or stay away from them. Arguing hardly ever works.

I still remember how shocked my wife was when a German colleague of mine actually admitted that perhaps she was right when they were discussing something at a dinner party. My wife figures that 6 years of living in America had mellowed him out amazingly compared to when he first arrived.

I am a believer that there are few 100% *anythings* and when people make such claims it annoys me; but it doesn't necessarily make them bad people---just inflexible ones. When I teach I provide a good selection of hammers and tell my students to find the ones(s) that work best for them and I also tell them that over time it may change as they gain skills and muscle. I do try to warn them about things that tend to cause problems in the long term but it doesn't get my knickers in a twist if they prefer a different hammer to what I do.