bark-eater Posted January 17 Posted January 17 Hi all, This is my first post. I've played around with a lot material over the years, and have done a little bit of blacksmithing, but no welding. I've got a bunch of sitting projects that are stalled at the point where welding is necessary, and now that I want to get back into blacksmithing, the list of things that I could use some sort of welding rig for is growing. So I'm looking for a bit of guidance on which kind of basic welding gear to invest in for building various stands, jigs, and a couple forges. Thanks, Woody Quote
Frosty Posted January 18 Posted January 18 Welcome aboard Woody, glad to have you. What kind of "welding rig" are you asking about? There are hundreds of different common ways to weld, starting at old school diffusion welding leading to modern methods you almost need a doctorate to operate. When you need a specific answer you need to be more specific about the question. What kind of welding do you wish to do, Forge, oxy acet, arc, ? ? ? Frosty The Lucky. Quote
EbinHeadrick Posted January 18 Posted January 18 If your looking for a MIG welder, Id recommend anything you can find, I like miller brand (only because its the a welder i know like the back of my hand)((also cost to all heck though)) but I've seen someone use one off temu and weld fine. (probs not too good for a perm solution) Stick? I have no idea but my school uses a Lincoln we won at a build off a few years back? MIG wise - if you can find one at a yard sale or something like that, a second hand one even if broken isn't too hard to fix. Unless something wrong with electronics then your on your own... Anything else and i have no idea)) Quote
Mike BR Posted January 18 Posted January 18 A friend of mine was just showing off a "Hone" stick welder ($100 on Amazon). He's quite happy with it, and stick welding works fine for most blacksmithing jigs, etc. It's harder to learn than MIG though, so if you value time over money (or need to weld thin sheet or do production work) you might look at MIG. Quote
MeltedSocks Posted January 18 Posted January 18 I've got the cheapest Lincoln Electric MIG from Lowes, a Zhunchowjoy TIG/stick welder, and a Linzingpop plasma cutter. Those are joke names, obviously. They are generic, cheap Amazon buys. They're all made in China. Quality is decent for the price. If you're welding 1/4" or thinner, the Lincoln Electric MIG will do just fine. MIG welding is waaaaaaaaay easier than TIG or stick. You can watch some youtube videos, practice for a few hours, and lay down decent looking "stack of dimes." You basically know you're doing it right by the sound of the sizzle. If I had it to do all over again, I would have invested in a MIG that could weld thicker material. I bought the cheap Amazon TIG/stick welder because I had to weld up thicker material. Let me say that stick welding is much, much more difficult, especially if you're trying to teach yourself. It is also extremely frustrating. You finally think you have starts down pat one day, then the next day every single attempt results in a stuck rod. I cussed more stick welding than I did playing golf. You finally lay down a pretty looking weld and think "I've got this," but then the next welding session you're battling porosity, undercuts, wandering off course, etc. I ground off a lot of weld material correcting my bad welds. TIG welding is kind of fun. It's good for very thin material. You have to buy a tank of shielding gas the first time, then get refills after that. I'd rank it No. 2 in difficulty after stick welding. My biggest problem is burning up the sharpened tungsten tips. You've got to keep it close enough for it to arc, but not so close that you burn the tungsten rod. Now, the plasma cutter is fool proof, but you need a lot of compressed air. It is good for cutting out sheet metal if you're doing forged lilies or something similar. I can only cut up to 1/4" thick plate, and that is really pushing it. Still, it beats a cutting wheel on a grinder or shears. In summary, bite the bullet and buy a stouter MIG welder that can weld thicker material if you can afford it. Otherwise, the cheapest Lincoln Electric MIG or whatever equivalent thing Harbor Freight has would probably do most of what you'd need if you're doing 1/4" or thinner. Hope this helps. Quote
bark-eater Posted January 18 Author Posted January 18 (edited) What amperage is your Lincoln Welder? Edited January 19 by Mod30 Remove @ name tag Quote
swedefiddle Posted January 19 Posted January 19 Happy Gnu Year bark, What amperage someone else has, doesn't matter. What current/voltage potential do you have available in your workspace? What previous knowledge do you have? Is there a High School or a Trade School in your area that you can take a 'Night School Course, on Welding'? It is a lot easier to start out with a mentor, who can show you How to Weld, and Why!! You have to start somewhere and with some kind of Weldor!! If you learn Oxy/Acetylene Welding with a Torch, you will find out that Tig Welding is almost the same. The simplest Welder would be a 110-120v Wire feed Welder. You will get cleaner welds with gas as a shield style, instead of 'Flux-Core' filler wire. My pet peeve!! You will learn to make a mess, first. Then you will learn to grind your weld, to make it acceptable to look at. Don't be discouraged, it is a Long Road of learning by making mistakes. It is not Mistakes, It is learning the way so you don't forget or 'As-Sume'!! Look in your local 'Buy and Sell' or whatever is available in your area. A Buzz Box, is a Stick Welder. You have to put a Welding Rod into the 'Rod Holder' to get VERY FRUSTRATED trying to get it to not stick. Long way of Learning!! If you find a 110-120v or a 220v Wire Feed Welder (Mig Welder), you will be welding and making lots of messes, in a half hour. MAKE SURE TO ALWAYS WEAR YOUR SAFETY GEAR!!! Ear, Eye, Cotton Clothing, long sleeve shirt (so you don't sunburn your arms from the Welding Flash), wear Leather Boots/Shoes!!!!!! This is just a Bee-Ginning!! Work Smart, Stay Alive!!! Neil Quote
MeltedSocks Posted January 19 Posted January 19 The amperage maximum amperage is "D." It doesn't have an amperage readout, but it does have a handy chart suggesting amp setting (A,B,C,D) and wire speed. For example, if you're welding 1/4" steel, it suggests D2 as a starting point. I'd have to dig around in my file cabinet for the manual. Can probably duck-duck-go it and get a quicker answer. Quote
Frosty Posted January 19 Posted January 19 Woody: As suggested take a class or at minimum find someone to show you the basics. If you're polite you might get one of the techs at a local welding supply to show you how to run a proper bead. How pretty a weld looks is irrelevant if it is not a good weld. Suggestions for welders that make pretty welds as the prime benefit is poor advice. There is no such thing as a point and shoot welder, if the weldor doesn't know how to make a good weld it's a crap shoot. While more difficult to learn with a stick welder they are much more versatile and you can pick up an old tombstone AC DC unit for pretty reasonable. Add to that they cost way less to operate and once you develop your skill to a competent level cleanup is easy. Frosty The Lucky. Quote
Hickory Wind Forge Posted January 20 Posted January 20 As Frosty and others said: do yourself a huge favor and take a welding course at a local BOCES or similar. You will be miles ahead of trying to spoon-feed yourself. Two of the hardest things for beginners to learn are welding hot enough, and running a bead slow enough. There are many comments about "a grinder and paint make me the weldor I ain't" but the whole point of a good bead is one that doesn't need grinding and has sufficient penetration. An 8-week course will put you literal years ahead on learning how to lay that bead. As far as welding machines go, always buy more welder than you think you need. The old rule of thumb is that it takes 1 amp to weld one-thousandth of an inch of thickness. Therefore, welding 1/8th" (0.125") sheet would require 125 amps. 1/4" requires closer to 200 amps for adequate penetration. Do not imagine that a 125-amp machine will be able to burn a 1" solid hardy-stub on adequately or safely. A welder that runs off 220v will burn circles around a similar amperage welder that runs on 110v. Cheap welders are cheap for a reason. The amount of copper windings and electrical solder in an off-brand cannot compare to a name-brand like Miller, Lincoln or even Hobart. Wire-feed systems (whether flux-core or gas-bottle) are easiest to learn to run, stick machines are possibly more available, cheaper, and adequate for much of the welding you will come across. TIG is at the top of the food chain, for beautiful artistic welds, especially on thin material or aluminum. The skill of welding absolutely has a place in forge-work, and if you master it you will never regret the time or money it took. - Matt. Also, as Frosty and Swede commented, learning how to run an oxy-acetylene torch will give you a great start towards TIG, as well as expanding your cutting abilities immensely. The old O-A set-up is still amazingly versatile. Quote
MeltedSocks Posted January 20 Posted January 20 My Lincoln Electric MIG welder is a Weld Pak 100. It's 30-100 amps. I'd love to take a welding course myself, but our local trade schools don't offer welding night school. So, lots of reading, watching videos, and lots of practice. YouTube is a good resource. I've learned everything from appliance repair to amateur cardiology. Quote
bark-eater Posted January 20 Author Posted January 20 I appreciate all of the advise and don't want folk to think I'm not taking what's been shared into consideration, but.... "The cheapest Lincoln Electric MIG from Lowes" option is appealing because of budget, reported learning curve, fitting the scale of my initial project list and shade tree work space. Right now the "cheapest" Lincoln Flux-core/Mig is around $400 and listed at 120 amps. I checked out the manual and the machine is rated at 3/16" with Mig and 1/4" with Flux-core. I'm not familiar with Flux-core and was wondering if some one can explain what that's all about? Thanks, Woody Quote
Buzzkill Posted January 20 Posted January 20 In simplest terms a flux core MIG welder does not require any shielding gas. MIG welders that use solid wire do require shielding gas for successful welding. Flux is included inside the wire, hence "flux core." This is comparable to the external flux on electrodes for "stick" welders. A welder designed to only use flux core wire typically does not have the hardware necessary to use shielding gas. Some welders can accommodate flux core or solid wire with shielding gas. Quote
Frosty Posted January 20 Posted January 20 MIG stands for "Metal and Inert Gas". Most modern welders don't use an inert gas, 75/25 is a common mix, 75% argon 25% CO2. Auto body welders are commonly straight CO2. The correct designation is GMAW, Gas Metal Arc Welder. Flux core is as already said a wire feed with the metal wrapped around a flux core instead of the flux coating the outside of the electrode. The problem with a flux core wire feed welder is the size of the gun. You can NOT fit it in small space nor does it have the reach of a stick electrode. They are very sensitive to the stand-off distance between the electric contact tip in the gun and the grounded weldment. And of course if you need to make multiple passes you'll have to chip and brush between each pass. Unlike GMAW. Also, FYI the current vs. thickness ratings are for single pass welds on "un-scarfed" joins. That would be butting two pieces of X thickness steel together and getting proper penetration. Scarfing or beveling the joint allows proper penetration in a single pass IF you use a good weave pattern depending on direction and orientation of the join. Or much thicker stock by making multiple passes in a scarfed join. If you use a stick welder you can change rod types quickly allowing for welds not possible with wire feed welders. Learning how to oxy acet weld is the best place to learn to weld, it teaches you what proper penetration is and how to get and direct the penetration. For example you're welding 1/4" to 1/2" stock you need to direct greater penetration to the thicker steel without blowing holes in the thinner. I'm not trying to give you a lesson or impress anything on you other than to beware random self taught guys on the internet's how to advice. Please bear in mind I'm just some guy on the internet. Frosty The Lucky. Quote
Hickory Wind Forge Posted January 21 Posted January 21 Woody, bear in mind that the other highly important number in selecting a welder is the Duty Cycle. Basically this is the percentage out of 10 minutes that the welder can be run continously at a given setting without overheating and tripping the shutdown thermostat. Running a 120 amp machine at max to weld 3/16th" will give you a very low duty cycle. If you're envisioning a lot of 3/16th, you'd be much better served with a 140 amp machine. Also, if at all possible, buy at an actual welding supply store vs Home Cheapo or similar. You will be able to ask questions and get experienced knowledgeable answers, along with an actual warranty. Matt. Quote
EbinHeadrick Posted January 21 Posted January 21 Highkey genius above me, i didn't even consider tripping breakers - I dont have anything to add but i just gotta give props to the person above Quote
Hickory Wind Forge Posted January 21 Posted January 21 Thanks ebin. I've spent a lot of time listening to my dad try to weld 1/4" and such with a 140-amp 110v MIG machine in his little Jeep shop next-door to my fab shop. It involves a lot of snapping and erratic buzzing, also lots of grousing and cussing. Then the grinder comes out, which really sets my teeth on edge. Finally I get annoyed enough to kick open the door and yell "Would you just bring that in here and let me do it??!!" "No no, I've almost got it...go away". More awful noises... more grinding.... Then 3 days later I find said part in my shop, thoroughly gobbed and bubble-gummed. I shake my head and fix it. Just hoping to help someone avoid bubblegum welding and grinding. - Matt. Quote
JHCC Posted January 21 Posted January 21 The more I practice welding, the better I get at grinding.... 15 hours ago, EbinHeadrick said: i didn't even consider tripping breakers Unless you're exceeding the capacity of the breaker on your shop wiring, you're not tripping the breaker as such. Rather, as HWF notes, you're tripping the internal thermostat on the welder itself. The difference is that the breaker keeps the shop wiring from overheating, whereas the thermostat keeps the welder itself from overheating. Another thing to keep in mind when shopping for a welder is that a GMAW machine WILL run flux-core wire, but a FCAW machine will NOT run solid (MIG) wire. My wire welder is for GMAW (and I do have a cylinder of 75/24), but I keep getting such great deals on FCAW wire at the industrial surplus place that I've never actually gotten around to using it with gas. Quote
Frosty Posted January 21 Posted January 21 Thanks John, I forgot to mention that last part. Frosty The Lucky. Quote
EbinHeadrick Posted January 21 Posted January 21 Also, Side rant on my part, helmet wise, they are all the same. aslong as one works, ive used countless helmets and sure there are nice expensive ones but you can use anything aslong as it works. I didnt use a helmet for like 2 & a half months and was welding for like an hour a day. (if you place your gun covering the arc, you wont get arc eye (as fast - trust me i did...) anyways i read a story on a guy who did similar and turns out he got radiation poisoning & developed these weird looking warts on his face. Safe to say i quickly stopped that... ((Be safe in general also)) Quote
Frosty Posted January 21 Posted January 21 Uh HUH, you should've gone to one of the same trade schools I did. That instructor was old school and did his TIG welding in goggles without gloves when possible. He was pretty scarred up where the skin cancers were cut out. He had a constant case of the shakes almost certainly from metal poisoning, yes some heavy metals. Until I found an auto-darkening shield for less than ridiculous that had the "solar" cells at the top instead of the bottom of the lens I wore a standard welding shield with 10 lenses, 14s when TIG or MIG welding. I did used to tack like you describe, using the gun and my hand to block direct UV exposure. I've never flipped the shield down, couldn't keep the rod on target so I'd flip the lens holder with my free hand. I've flash burned my eyes a few times before I got more vigilant but I've been flash burned many times by other guys welding near me. One liked to stand right next to others at the same table no matter how open it was. NOR was he one to warn anybody before striking an arc. Everybody else said, "EYES" loudly before striking an arc. He got transferred to a non-hot work position after 5-6 of us leaned on the bosses desk and discussed the issue. I'd taken to wearing a shield with a leather drape over the top and around the back by then. Don't take chances with your eyes or other peoples! Frosty The Lucky. Quote
Scott NC Posted January 23 Posted January 23 I always wore a helmet, tacking or welding and one time a bb bounced under the helmet, under my glasses and stuck on my eye. I had to go get it taken off at the hospital and later had some rust grow and had to have that ground out by an eye doctor. Quote
Frosty Posted January 23 Posted January 23 I've had spatter hit me in the face under my welding shield and behind my safety glasses enough I started wearing face fitting safety goggles over my glasses. Frosty The Lucky. Quote
ShoreB Posted January 27 Posted January 27 Woody, It says you are somewhere on the Shore. Dave Collier of Broken Hammer Forge is east of Centreville towards Delaware. He has beginner blacksmithing classes and I believe a single day welding class to get your feet wet. If I recall he and the place in Easton are part of a guild which would be good for you also. Quote
bark-eater Posted January 30 Author Posted January 30 On 1/27/2025 at 2:50 PM, ShoreB said: Woody, It says you are somewhere on the Shore. Dave Collier of Broken Hammer Forge is east of Centreville towards Delaware. He has beginner blacksmithing classes and I believe a single day welding class to get your feet wet. If I recall he and the place in Easton are part of a guild which would be good for you also. Thanks for that. I hadn't thought about local resources. I'm still looking at different kind of welding rigs. Right now the "FORNEY Easy Weld 140 Amp 120-Volt Flux-Cored Wire Feed Welder" is winning, just because it has a higher amperage rating than the other "branded" flux core welders, and costs the same as the lower amperage flux core/mig combination machines with out tanks. I'd like to find a dual voltage machine as I have a 220 plug in my shop. Unfortunately I would need to run a 30-40 foot cord to get to where I'd be welding. Quote
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