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Color question


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In just about every video I watch, the steel is very yellow when taken out of the forge.  Mine is never that color.  It is more orange.  Am I doing something wrong?  Is it my forge?  Does the color just look different in a video?  

I'm using a propane forge

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Electronic cameras like in your phone do not reproduce glowing colors well, they all look hotter than they are. A yellow hot piece will sometimes glare my Iphone out white and it's only med -high yellow. 

Have you posted a pic of your forge and burner I don't recall but YES your forge should develop yellow heat, orange says there's a problem. We'll be happy to help solve it with you. :)

Frosty The Lucky.

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AI YI  YI!! You really need to finish your forge as it stands it's a serious breathing hazard!

You need to rigidize the ceramic blanket to prevent little needle sharp ceramic fibers from breaking off and blowing into your breathable air! Can you spell Mesotheleoma? 

There is a good home brew rigidizer brought to us by Mikey which is fumed / colloidal silica from the local plastics, fiberglass supply. and clean fresh water. Using a spritzer bottle butter the blanket with water, this allows the desired stuff to flow and coat the fibers. Then spritz the blanket liberally with the colloidal solution, a drop or two of food coloring makes it easy to apply an even coating. 

Let it air dry then fire the burner till the blanket is red hot and let it cool.

Now you need to apply a layer of high temperature water setting refractory. The IFI store used to sell smaller amounts for reasonable of Kastolite-30-li a 3,000f water setting high alumina bubble refractory. Unfortunately with Glenn Conner's passing the Iforge store closed so it might be workable to get together with members living close to your or maybe the local group and buy a sack. 

Do NOT buy refractory CEMENT! The stuff is for sticking bricks together, cementing them and is NOT intended for direct flame contact like the inside of a propane forge. It has a short lifespan, very short. It REALLY needs a hard inner, flame face, liner so it doesn't get torn up and you aren't breathing dangerous needles.

Frosty The Lucky.

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Welcome from the Ozark Mountains.

Do you think it's a health hazard, not only for you, but anyone who is around while it's fired up? If you think it's safe I suggest reading this topic. Frosty is trying to tell you a propane forge with no coating to seal in the ceramic wool it is a serious health hazard.

https://www.iforgeiron.com/topic/53239-ceramic-wool-insulation-safety-alert/

I can't control the wind, all I can do is adjust my sail’s.
Semper Paratus

 

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Right now it's not safe to light at all. Yellow heat we can do after you make your forge safe to use. The broken fibers float everywhere and any disturbance can stir them up and back into the air, say sweeping the floor or brushing against a door jam.

We'll get your burner performing, don't worry. On the other hand a properly built 2 layer forge liner can indeed increase the forge's operating temperature by preventing any % of the flame being blown into the blanket and dissipated for no gain. 

We're not even talking about zirconium flour kiln washes and the magic they do. Some of us have been studying and tinkering with this stuff for long enough we have to watch the knee jerk reaction of reject new and better things.

Frosty The Lucky.

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Ok ok.  I get it.  What is the best thing to use to seal it?  I thought people use refractory cement.  But you say not to use that.  What do most people use?

I'm not saying that I don't believe all of this, but the listing for this forge on Amazon specifically says that the lining doesn't need to be sealed.

 This is quoted from the listing.

Extremely High Thermal Insulation and durability: Interior of forge is insulated with 1400 grade ceramic fiber blanket rated upto 2600F, helps you to quickly heat and maintain optimum temperature, you can work directly without the rigidizer or refractory.  Direct Use: The high-quality ceramic fiber insulation blanket can start working directly without using rigidizer or refractory. It is more convenient to use

Is there something sold specifically for this purpose?

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There is one brand of ceramic wool on the market that is “supposed” to be safe, but I’m not sure there is any data out there to back that claim up yet. I’m also not sure that it has truly permeated the market yet. Best bet is to be safe and rigidize it and put a coat of Kastolite 30 on it, and for the best results top that with Plistix or ITC for its thermal reemission.

(Even if it is the “safe” stuff, it will last much longer with an amour coating!)

Keep it fun,

David

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I went to Amazon and found your forge an ATkrou sold by Chahull. It is made in China and whoever put no rigidizer needed does not know what they are talking about or they are seriously misleading on purpose.

Customer questions & answers

Q: Where is it made?
A: Made in China.
By Chahull in the United States on May 6, 2024
 
We can't put in a live link per forum rules.

I can't control the wind, all I can do is adjust my sail’s.
Semper Paratus

 

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Lots of people do use refractory cement, we see their posts wondering why their forge liner melted, fell apart, etc. way too often. Worse the term has become a buzz word people ask for, so many honest refractory companies are branding proper refractories as refractory cement. Meaning it's getting harder and harder to know if you're buying the right stuff.

The makers of my favorite refractory's corporate HQ is in Pittsburg Pa. Harbison Walker by name, a little calling around should locate an outlet that carries it. I found it at my go to for refractories a local furnace and boiler supplier.

There are some old standby refractories that are still around, Missou being the only one that comes to mind. 

Okay gang where is a good place to buy Kastolite 30 or another good refractory in PA? Anybody out there who's close want to split a sack a couple few ways.  5lbs. or so is plenty to do Will's forge so there'd be plenty for a couple few others too. Hmmm?

About the listing saying it's plug and play. . . And there's Randy saying about what I was going to. Being made in China how much do you think they care or how honest? China produces and sells the precursor chemicals to manufacture Fentanyl to drug cartels everywhere. Think it'd be possible to sue them for false advertising?:lol:

The non-persistent refractory blanket is IIRC Insulwool. By non persistent any fiber particles you inhale can be dissolved by our natura defenses. 

Common ceramic blanket like I have in my forges say Kaowool is a persistent ceramic, once it's perforating your aveoli it's there forever. You can work with it safely but it requires PPE, filter mask and coveralls at a minimum. Leave the area AFTER washing it down the drain, put the coveralls in a plastic bag and take a shower. Don't forget to cover your hair!

Look it's not an immediate danger, it's like smoking it takes time but unlike smoking it doesn't go away when you quit. It does take more than a casual exposure but every one builds up. The sky may not be falling but it's one of those "better to avoid" than trust in it taking lots of it to get you.

Frosty The Lucky.

 

 

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Ok that kastolite 30 is sold all over the internet.   Amazon and other places.  

Why do people act like something is bad because it is made in China?  I bet whatever you're using to read and write on this forum was made in China too.  Mostly everything I own was made in China.   I have some old tools made in USA, but most tools aren't even made here anymore. 

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Will, I think the answer is rwo fold.  First is quality.  Yes, there are some very well made Chinese products but we have all had experiences where the overseas made, particularly Chinese, product is a POS.  Quality control is often spotty.

Second is a form of patriotism.  Without trying to push IFI's terms of service about political content I will say that a lot of folk would rather buy something that has "Made in USA" on it.  My personal prejudice is that I will not buy any overseas made Visegrip brand tools.  A Canadian conglomerate bought out the family owned company, closed the factory in DeWitt, Nebraska, which devastated the town, and moved production off shore.  That is not necessarily on the Chinese but on "off shoring" in general.  I will happily buy old Vise Grips with the DeWitt, NE on the handle but not the new ones.  

And many folk are nostalgic for the days when the USA made everything under the sun.  But, sadly, even in the general world the old saying about "fast, good, cheap, pick 2" is true and the cost of production, transportation, etc. has made the economic equation work that puts production in less "advanced" countries.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

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Not everything made in China is bad, but almost everything that is sold online by drop shippers based in China has false information cut and paste into its ad from the next most similar ad that the drop shipper found online. I'm sure the same can be said of drop shippers in many other countries, too, but China's population means that we see a lot more of the ads from Chinese drop shippers than from other countries.

Edit: and I see George beat me.

What he said, too! ^

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I can agree about avoiding Chinese products purchased from drop shippers. There are good ones out there, but it’s a pretty cut throat business and the good ones often get pushed out. Just look at what happened to Mr. Volcano. They made really good forges at great prices, but got pushed out by cheap low quality copies…

I purchased an Anyang power hammer and I’m very happy with the purchase. However, they are sold by a company out of Texas and are very weld supported. I would have considered buying from a local manufacturer, but at the time no one in the States was manufacturing a self contained hammer!

Overall, that forge looks well constructed and they seem to have gotten a lot of things right. I would love to see a couple pictures of the burners flame. This may be a good low cost option, just be safe a encapsulate the ceramic wool.

Keep it fun,

David

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I don't know where to buy it in PA, but one of the members one here, WayneCoe used to sell plans for a number of things as well as small batches of rigidizer and refractory and ship it Tennessee. I was in the Alex Bealer Blacksmith group with him years ago. I couldn't find any posts on the net from him in the last two years, so I'm not sure he's still doing it, but his number and email can be found on this site and on google pretty easily.

If I have exceeded what is allowed to be said regarding commercial sales, please remove that portion. I'll send it to him in the chats as well.

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You can buy refractory at Menards now. Some of this stuff that it seemed hard to get 10 years ago is pretty common now. Like soft fire brick, i searched high and low here for them till i finally ordered a few, now the local hardware store sells them. 

I have found in my life that when buying something, no matter where it comes from, you get what you pay for. A cheap tool is a cheap tool no matter where it is from.

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On 5/14/2024 at 11:47 AM, whitewill1412 said:

I don't think that's why it won't get yellow

And neither do I. In fact you have a very bad burner problem, which is shown by the bluing of your burner's mixing tubes!!! The flames are obviously burning back into them.

6 minutes ago, Mikey98118 said:

And neither do I. In fact you have a very bad burner problem, which is shown by the bluing of your burner's mixing tubes!!! The flames are obviously burning back into them.

Well, after dropping a bomb like that, I should probably add that the burner design looks pretty good; probably with some tinkering you will to get a proper outcome. So, begin by turning the gas presssure up, to see if the flames will move forward to the end of the burner; yes it is possible to turn the gas down low enough to allow burn-back in any burner; it this is your problem, the solution is quite simple.

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I bought some rigidizer with good reviews on Amazon.  It should be here tomorrow.   I can apply it after work tomorrow and let it dry for 24 hours.  Should be forging this weekend.  I'm off work.  

Thank you guys for pointing this issue out to me.  Now I know and maybe I'll be able to pass on this wisdom to some other poor fool.

You're right.  Sometimes I turn the gas down while I'm not using it just to keep it warm.  That must be when it is getting the burn back.  When the gas is turned up it burns great.  I guess I should just turn it off when I take a break instead of turning it down so low.  Then I can just relight it when ready to get it hot.

Edited by Mod30
Excessive quoting
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Understand that you don't need to let the ceramic wool insulation dry, before turning on the burners, which will dry out the wool, and then set the rigidizer once the insulation reaches orange heat.

You would be ahead of the game to coat the inside of your forge with Plistix 900; afterward, your forge will probably reach yellow heat. look up baffle walls on this thread. Also, if you can close those two exhaust ports, so that the burner flames must swirl around inside the forge, before exiting out of one or both ends, your forge will become far more efficient.

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