Got a question about wrought iron and skill level

[Red53]

Hey everyone 

To start, I've got next to zero experience in any metal work. So I'm basically less than a novice skill level, having only heat my forge twice and heating and beating on two pieces of steel.

So my question is, I've found someone selling 2 tubs of wrought iron, which looks like old railing and the pieces are about 20" to 30" long.

I'm just wandering if it's worth getting and hold on to it till I have more experience/skills or should I pass on it. I've heard people talk about wrought iron but don't know what I'd do with it if I have it around. 

Any advice would be appreciated 

[George N. M.]

Red, if it isn't too costly I'd say to get it.  If nothing else, you can use it as trading stock with other blacksmiths.  BUT, I would make sure that it is really wrought iron.  You can do this with a spark test.  You touch it with an angle grinder or touch a piece to a grinding wheel and look at the sparks.  Wrought iron will send out stright streams of sparks with no secondary bursts (like little fireworks bursts).  Steel will have bursts, generally, the higher the carbon the more bursts.  There is much more to spark testing but you can look it up easier than we can explain it.  Just because it was used in a "wrought iron" railing does not mean that it is actually wrought iron.

Wrought iron largely passed out of common use in the late 19th and early 20th century when steel became cheaper.  So, if the railing came from a house built in the 19th century it may well be wrought iron.  If it came from a house built in the 1950s it is likely mild steel.

Also, if it is rusted fairly deeply you can can see a "wood grain" pattern because the iron and the included impurities will oxidize at different rates.

Wrought iron works differently than mild steel, usually at a higher heat, and it has "grain" like wood due to layers of impurities.  It is often used in knives (with a higher carbon steel edge welded to the iron) to give a pattern similar to pattern welded steel (aka "damascus") because the grain will become more pronounced when it is acid etched.  Also, it tends to weld more easily because the impurities in it make it "self fluxing."

If you can post some pictures we may be able to give more informed opinions.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

If the price is right, I would say get it. Even if it isn't wrought iron, it could be mild or Bessemer (early) steel, which is always good to have on hand when forging stuff. Wrought iron is getting harder & harder to find nowadays.

I can't control the wind, all I can do is adjust my sail’s.
Semper Paratus

 

[JHCC]

17 hours ago, George N. M. said:

Red, if it isn't too costly I'd say to get it.  If nothing else, you can use it as trading stock with other blacksmiths.

Exactly this, with all the caveats posted above.

[Red53]

Here's the pictures it's from the auction place they even have a leg vice this week

[George N. M.]

I'd say to put in the equivalent bid of $US 5-10 and if you get it and it is wrought iron, great.  If it is mild steel that is still OK because you will have paid not much over scrap price (25 cents US/pound the last time I checked).  I'd guesstimate that there is about 30 pounds of metal there.  Others may have a more accurate estimate.

The post vise may be the better prize.  Scrap steel is pretty common but post vises are more rare.  You might call the auction house and see if you can inspect it.  Is it an on line auction or an in person auction? If the latter, get there early enought to inspect the threads on the post vise.  If they are worn, walk away.

GNM

[Frosty]

It's so handy being a minute or two behind George, he covers the important points so well I don't need to talk about wrought iron vs. steel. Except one minor point, almost nobody knows the difference between wrought iron the metal and wrought iron the decorative technique. Auctioneers don't care, they can get higher bids on wrought iron so that is what they'll call it even if it's painted aluminum.

That said so in the future you won't get your hopes up too high that is still a good score if you can get it for a decent price. It is excellent dimensions and perfect lengths to work. Long enough to hold one end while you forge the HOT end. 

My advice when going to an auction is NEVER let them (auctioneer and shills) know you're interested in something, Do NOT bid until the first call for last bid. You do NOT want to get into a bidding war and auctioneers will do their best to get bidders competing. You can always bid until the auctioneer makes final call for bids, "Going going . . . GONE!" It really annoys them but you can cast a bid until GONE closes the bidding.

So, stand back, be cool, maybe mess with your phone, read the brochure, anything but watch the auctioneer and shills. If a shill approaches you look annoyed at the interruption.  The guys working the crowd are there to run up the bid and make sure one isn't missed. Be careful about raising even a hand! The shill WILL shout and point at you, if you didn't mean to bid shake your head NO!

Anyway, if you hold your bid to the last and it's still in your price range, offer something insultingly low for last bid, I usually bid $1 MAX opening on the last bid call. Ideally though the auctioneer will have dropped from the desired opening bid, say $10, they aren't bashful, return the spirit. If no bidders s/he'll start dropping opening. Do I hear $5? . . . . $3? ONE DOLLAR?! (Whatever the last is offer no more than 1/2) I'll give you $0.50 to save you a dump run. 

Sorry for the long ramble but auctions can be a lot of fun and I'm jonesing to play the game but I already have too much stuff. Just ask Deb.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Steve Sells]

One problem with average people is they call many types of metal work Wrought Iron, even tho it isnt that material, its just made to shape,  I saw a wouoght iron railing that is actually cast aluminum

[Red53]

Here's the pictures of the leg vice but I see some of them at least once or twice a month on the auction site and about a year or so ago I got my Peter Wright anvil form there too. The auction is online ever since covid hit, and the prices are going up by a dollar until about $20, then about going up $5 a bid after that so I can't just put $21 on a bid

[Daswulf]

The railing pieces are more likely steel than wrought iron unless you can test it or they can prove it is wrought iron, you are better off finding a metal supplier and buying the size steel you want to work. If this is just steel it would be more work to forge to what you want since it is twisted. 

Unless you can be sure it is wrought iron (and you actually want some) I would pass and save your money for some new stock. 

[George N. M.]

Since the leg vise doesn't appear to have a spring for the moving jaw or the original mounting bracket (I am assuming that the thing under the screw housing is some sort of "after market" mounting bracket and that you are unable to see the condition of the screw I think that I would pass.  Yes, you don't see them every day but they seem to be commoner than decent anvils.  Post vises are nice but you can make do with a bench vise until a post vise in decent condition and at a decent price comes along.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

[BillyBones]

I agree with Das on that most likely being steel and not wrought, especially because it looks like there is remnants of broken weld on the ends. 

However i dis agree on the usefulness. It is really not that difficult to take the twist out of. I had a whole bunch of old porch railing a while back and i got to where i could get the twist out pretty quick. Also if you want something with a twist, well you have them premade. 

Any way, if i could get them pretty cheap, say $30-$40 US, i would by them. 

The biggest hassle you will have is getting the paint off of them. That is some pretty tough stuff. 

[Red53]

Well, the auction was last night, and I passed on both the iron at $60 and leg vice at $70. 

[M3F]

I think you made the right choice on passing.

[Frosty]

Good move Red. 

Frosty The Lucky.

[George N. M.]

Definite pass.  Good move not to get caught in a bidding frenzy/competition.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."