Scott NC Posted March 8 Author Share Posted March 8 21 hours ago, Nobody Special said: I just don't you should go around encouraging them by believing in them. I could not agree more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWISTEDWILLOW Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 50 minutes ago, Irondragon Forge ClayWorks said: They are not Harper's Ferry 1803 rifled muskets which had a much fancier butt stock Hiya Debbie!!!! the word I was given from when they took them to get looked at was that they predated the ACW but I really don’t know because they couldn’t find the paperwork from the appraisal I was told they were from around the American revolution era, and had been reworked from flintlocks Next time I make it to a hammer in that y’all are going too i might bring them so you can look at them Randy, I might drag those old swords with me too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWISTEDWILLOW Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 Here’s some close ups for anyone interested, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott NC Posted March 9 Author Share Posted March 9 I lost a family gun once to a house break in 25 years ago. It was my dads stevens side by side 410. I lost a of other stuff but that hurt. I'm glad you have those to preserve. Nice phoros. I know the rat that did it and I would like to teach him something but I've gotten over it. Dirty thieves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George N. M. Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 A couple of thoughts: 1. Might they be shotguns (aka "fowlers") rather than muskets? How thickk are the barrel walls at the muzzle? If they are "thick" they are probably muskets. If "thin" they are fowlers. Also, there do not appear to be any rear sights. Are there any front sights? I can't tell from your previous pics. If no sights, front or rear, that is evidence that they are not muskets. Measure the bore and see if they are the caliber of common shotgun gauges (10 gauge = .775 cal., 12 gauge = .729, 16 gauge = .663, 20 gauge = .615, etc.) 2. Is there any writing on the lock plates? It kind of looks like in the photos but I can't tell for sure. 3. In the first photo it looks like there is sort of a ridge above your middle finger extending from where the nipple would go in line with the hammer. If so, it appears to me that it may have been made of percussion ignition rather than being a flintlock conversion. 4. I don't see any empty screw holes in the lock plate in front of the locks which would have secured the frizzen (the striking plate that the flint hits) spring for a flintlock. so, that is evidence that the locks were originally built for percussion ignition. 5. the fore ends of the stocks look nice enough that I think they look more like original fowlers than being cut down from military muskets or hunting rifles. Folk who know more about black powder weapons (I'm looking at you, Irondragon) may have more to contribute. My sense, for what it is worth is that they are shotguns/fowlers dating from about 1830-1870. If they turn out to be 12 gauge caliber I won't be surprised. I wouldn't try shooting them but i would try to replace the nipple on the one which just has a hole in the side of the barrel. If you hang them on your wall you can forge some fancy wall hooks for them. Still, very nice score. GNM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWISTEDWILLOW Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 George there is front sights like a little bead on one for sure because I noticed it, there is no writing that I can find just some artwork scroll led into it That said I’ll bet your right about them being shotguns because the barrels seem awfully thin to me compared to modern rifles I’m familiar with, but like modern shotguns they have thin barrels I don’t have any calipers here at the new place they are all back in peavine at my shop down there or I’d get a measurement tonight don’t worry about my trying to shoot them I don’t have any intentions of that. i have a nasty memory of standing next to someone when they fired modern ammunition in an old rifle and it blew up sending the shell casing and gun parts into their throat… but that’s a story for another day… infact along with these two firearms I also was given an old Winchester model 12 pump shotgun that from the serial number and google I gathered to be from 1936 and I don’t have any intentions of putting modern ammunition in it either! anyways it seems that you have put me further along with information about them then I had before, and whoever did the original appraisal apparently didn’t know what they were talking about, thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyBones Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 You can make percussion caps from a piece of pop can, or beer your choice, and some of those caps on a paper roll like we used to use in our toy cap guns. You can buy the tool that punches and forms the aluminum into the cup shape for them. Punch out your cup, then use a paper hole punch so that you get just the part of the paper cap that "pops", insert 3 of them into your cup and you have yourself a percussion cap. One of my cousins had a flint lock. That was pretty fun to shoot and definitely takes some practice to get good with. Back when flintlocks were the choice of rifles bird hunting was considered one of the hardest kinds of hunting. The reason was the slight pause between the time the pan was ignited and the rifle actually firing. Birds could see the flash then change their direction. So you had to anticipate where the bird was going to be. Or so i have been told. Speaking of bird hunting the guy on the KY ballistics you tube channel has a punt gun. That is pretty fun to watch and see what it can blow holes through. Every August here we have a sweet corn festival. The corn is cooked in an old steam tractor, then dipped in melted butter. Quite yummy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 I have to agree with George after looking at the new pictures and enlarging the first one's. They are definitely not from the American Revolution or the war of 1812 as the muskets of that time period have a much greater drop to the stock and most were British Land pattern or French Charleville pattern. This shows pretty well what they looked like. Even the few American gun makers copied the style then. https://www.americanrevolutioninstitute.org/exhibition/a-revolution-in-arms/ The percussion ignition system came into popular common use in the mid 1800s 1830 if I remember right and a lot of flintlocks were converted to caps. However like George said those locks probably are not original flintlock unless the frizzen and frizzen spring screw holes were welded up and the flash pans ground off. It would have been costly for a gunsmith to do that, although the locks could have been replacements. It's easy to convert a flintlock barrel to percussion though. Drill and tap the flash hole and screw in the bolster, of course replace the cock with a hammer too. I can't control the wind, all I can do is adjust my sail’s. Semper Paratus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 Another thing I just noticed is the trigger guard, which is used on a lot of fowlers and trade guns. I can't control the wind, all I can do is adjust my sail’s. Semper Paratus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott NC Posted March 22 Author Share Posted March 22 Well, I collect old machettis on the cheap, I have many. Not very glamorious. Old and worn out. It's interesting to see how some people keep them going to the bitter end. Also butcher knives. I have some that are paper (almost) thin and all wavy on the blade from probably sharpening on over used junk sharpening stones. Somebody re-purposed a broken broomstick, I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daswulf Posted Tuesday at 06:02 PM Share Posted Tuesday at 06:02 PM On 2/24/2024 at 6:22 PM, Direwolf said: t is a piece of float copper. I took my girls the the Carnegie museum of natural history saturday and they had this chunk on display there. Didn't get to see as much as I would have liked but the girls had fun for as long as their attention spans could handle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted Wednesday at 05:09 PM Share Posted Wednesday at 05:09 PM Be nice to turn up something like that digging in our land. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daswulf Posted Wednesday at 10:05 PM Share Posted Wednesday at 10:05 PM Wouldn't any of us. At scrap rate probably $7500. Likely worth more, and just plain neat. Only copper I find on our property with a metal detector is pennies and copper jackets from bullets up where we shoot. Some sort of critter likes to make little piles of lead and copper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted Wednesday at 11:48 PM Share Posted Wednesday at 11:48 PM That's probably a pack rat. I once cast about a hundred lead round balls for my 50 cal. muzzleloader's and without thinking, I left them on the bench to cool down and forgot to go back to the shop and box them up until several days later. When I went out to get them about half were gone, found them a month or 2 later in a pack rats nest while digging through stuff on one of my many shelves, looking for something else. I can't control the wind, all I can do is adjust my sail’s. Semper Paratus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted Thursday at 12:32 AM Share Posted Thursday at 12:32 AM Now there's a thought. Keep a nest or 5 of domesticated packrats behind the back stop at the gun range to collect the jackets, and lead for scrap value. No, I'm not forgetting casing at the firing line but those sweep up of the pavement, it makes for easy clean up of the brass you know. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyBones Posted Thursday at 05:10 PM Share Posted Thursday at 05:10 PM Wonder if they could be trained to put my tools away in the shop? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted Thursday at 05:15 PM Share Posted Thursday at 05:15 PM Good Wonder Billy. I think it's just the thing to let the experienced trainers figure out. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daswulf Posted Thursday at 11:07 PM Share Posted Thursday at 11:07 PM I think there is a video of a mouse putting tools away. If I remember right, the guys tools he left on the work bench kept ending up in his toolbox over night when he was sure he had left them out. He ended up setting a camera up and caught video of a mouse putting them in the box. Ok so I just looked it up and had remembered a bit wrong, it was just stuff from a parts tub. But hey, Id love if my mice did this for me instead of chewing things up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted Friday at 12:32 AM Share Posted Friday at 12:32 AM That's pretty cool though I don't think unusual for mice. Buy better tasting tools maybe? Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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