My little cable friend

[Pigsticker]

Hey guys. Sorry I'm in the delightful afternoon postings. Trying to keep m42 busy.

Just a few questions.

Does pic 1 show????

1) I need more flux. Was only done w 30 percent of flux.

Or 

2) it wasn't hot enough?

3) can I throw this right back in forge to finish it?

4) hammer size and stroke. I sent shakes down into the earth with a short 4 lb hammer. Would slapping it do better. Ive even got a 2 lb if I should be flapping it .

5) not meant as an insult but they make cordless thermometer guns and I'm starting to figure it out. Does anyone familiar with the specific temperatures know what temp to pull cable to weld it knowing it will cool quickly. I've been pulling this last whole time when I get a 2200. I'll stay there til someone says shoot 2300. I know the interior of the  metal is different temp but these guns are too reliable for me to disregard. (  I need it too much)

Question based on the following assumptions

Welding at 2000-2300 degrees 

Shaping at 1700-2000 degrees 

Over 1900 degrees gets quickly degenerative

 I can leave metal for hours at 1700, pick it up anytime and it will be warm enough to shape but will not degenerate from cold status right??

 

If the above 4 are right:

***How do I know metal is welded enough to drop the temp to shaping temps and isn't just an attempt at welding below heat.

Thanks and your turkey has incredible drumsticks

 

 

[NoGoodWithUsernames]

Pigsticker, I don't have a ton of experience with forge welding everything I have read and seen seems to indicate that light blows are better for setting the weld. Also a 4lb hammer must be a beast to swing! 

[Glenn]

There is a well known and respected knife maker that used a wooden hammer handle to set a weld.  He had it floating in the slack tub (no hammer head) and hit the stack of metal vertically with the end of the wood.  Perfect weld.

[Goods]

Are you using a swage block to consolidate the cable? It makes a very big difference. Also, is the any chance that this is stainless steel wire rope? (I have some die lifting cable that were scraped at work, and they appear to be stainless steel, so have tried anything with them yet…)

keep it fun,

David

[Pigsticker]

40 minutes ago, NoGoodWithUsernames said:

 

Ngun it's a little 'fancy' fiskers mallet. Nothing special. In an odd set of happenstance, whatever I lack in judgement or knowledge I mitigate w raw strength. It's a problem. I only need so much picked up. Does my pick at least show good prewelding where you use the light strokes?

Glenn, that idea seems really cool and I have free time. Does the pic above look hot enough to mortar mold? I happen to possess large amounts of ultra dense tropical hardwoods needing a purpose.

Goods, I don't even know how to respond but I think I'm moderatorable. What is the difference and I'll call cable monkey now to find out. What is it's the wrong stuff. Will it not work?????

I'm cooking my turkey on a $300+ spit made of aebl, cra and crm 154, damasteel and lots of cable.

[George N. M.]

Re your turkey spit:  Anything worth doing is worth overdoing.

Happy Turkey Day.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

[BillyBones]

One step i notice seems to be missing : clean the cable. If you do not get all the gunk out of it that will inhibit the weld. 

Welds will only work when Jupiter is in Leo and Mars is descending, unless it is a new moon or you are in the shadow of Mt. Fuji. That is when you will need the egg of a California condor collected during a storm on a night of the blood moon that has been boiled in the saliva of a narwhale. 

I can not say my way is the right way but i can say how i do it. Clean the metal. Get it to a high orange/low yellow and flux it, just a bit not to much. stick it back in the forge and bring it up to welding temp. 3 or 4 quick light taps, brush off the scale, and back in the forge. A few more light taps, brush off the scale, a bit more flux and repeat. One thing that helps me is my first few taps are dead blows, or i do not let the hammer rebound kind of pressing the metal together i guess. From there refine the weld and work it into what ever it is to become. 

Welding is an odd beast i think. At first it is as elusive as trying to catch your own shadow. Right there within your grasp but you just cannot seem to be able to get a hold of it. Then BAM, you get that weld and a second, a third and so on. 5 years later you do it with barely even thinking about it. 

 

 

[Steve Sells]

twisting while welding helps also

[Pigsticker]

Thanks guys.

Goods- if I use a rail and don't have an anvil, what type, size, setup and angles do I need for2". Gnm if I meet a gun welder I'll have him put my spit out about 15'. It's a good 2" line, she'd hold.

Bb- out of disgust this cable or wire sat in a little pipe bomb I built (w pvc, 2 caps , kerosene and some glue for one side.) For about 1 month soaking in kerosene .I try and burn lil bits of kerosene to keep it newer kero. I pick it up and shake it like a rain stick. Plus this metal cable and or wire has been pretty clean on inside and the soaks aren't turning kero "black". Your last paragraph describes what I want better than I knew. 

Sts I tried to hammer first on the ends lightly twice, then gave up and twisted half the length in each direction after 8 min soak. Then back to light color chasing w a mallet. This is inaugural metal heating redo after melting a lot of cable in my aggressively insulated forge.

Heres pic of nights breath. Forge is cold in in pic. It's in the 50"s tonight and it's outside and 15 sec or less o flame. Is flame size ok enough and does hole around burner effect me. This is 4 th time trying for that answer. I have locust concerns.

Tx

[Pigsticker]

BB where do you first shots land. On the 45, crushing side of cable etc?

I missed that whole part the first read

 

 

[Pigsticker]

Glenn- this morning I woke up vexxed by the implications of your post. Was the important part that the guy used wood covered in water, or that anything capable of holding water will have this effect? I don't get out much. 

Tx

[Pigsticker]

And does my dragons breath out the forge in above pics of show a "good" non oxidizing flame. Tx

 

 

Has anyone heard of clamping and crimping over steel cable to seal the ends. I was looking at crimps I think it would be awesome to be able to spend 100$ on banding equipment and be able to start w sealed ends. I wrap the ends in wire now but it isn't rigid enough to pound en masse.

Tx

 

[Glenn]

The important part was the hammer handle with no hammer head being light weight.  He did not need a heavy blow to set the weld.  He just bumped the billet with the end of the handle.

[Steve Sells]

I use my mig to weld the ends closed, I suggest you read through the knife making classes about forge welding

[Pigsticker]

Glenn ok I finally got mine hot enough I could see it working with a wooden pounding. Point taken 

Sts- all golden stuff. I guess I could look for a guy to mig my cable. Do you have a "look" I could look for in a willing welder who would be free to do your idea? Boonie hat, linen safari suits (ct huh), shades, even chain wallets? People seem to know when helping me isn't helping themselves a bit. Every time. Is the reading you recommend like the 101 they talk about in the posts?

 

 

Here an update pic

 

[BillyBones]

I have only forged cable a couple times, i am not a knife maker so i have no reason to, but my first strikes are straight down. 

As Goods also said having a swage makes it a whole lot easier. As for the size i try and use the one on my swage block about half the diameter of my bundle when i am doing basket twists. I have found that round or V shape really does not make that much of a difference for me. So if you do not have swage block or a place to mount a swage in your anvil one could be made from a piece of angle iron that can be held in a vice. It may not last very long but for 1 billet it should be fine. 

Also do not overlook what Steve said about twisting the cable at welding heat.

If you have the funds invest in a welder. They can be had for pretty cheap now a days. My wife got me one for Christmas a couple years back. It is a small stick welder i think cost maybe a $120. And believe me when you learn to use it you will use it for way more than tacking together cable. 

[Pigsticker]

BB Good stuff, thank you. I think my major problem is I'm putting all my woes on everything but the heat. I think my prob is simply being too cold all the time, except for melting cable in brand new forges. I do like that I guess. It was a testament to how evenly I was heating the whole pieces to melt them in forge and the little 5" handles melted and went in the forge too. I'm not sure why but I think that's impressive.

"Pig making Gobble noises"

Happy tday all and remember to pass the turkey to the left hand side .

I've got more 1 time use stuff than allows room for a stick welder.im still trying to figure this forge. I'm concerned as to my future if I make a second blade and don't need it.  And do do you know the type carcinogens involved with rebuilding a mig? I don't. Have a great holiday all 

Lastly, I'm thinking I'm welding even darker colored parts of cable when I get to heat. Am I just making the dish spicy?

 

 

Does a cables propensity to unwind diminish as it gets welded or will strand still try collectively to fracture away from the mass?

Thanks 

Gbl gbl

 

 

[Pigsticker]

Goods and BB 

Time to ruin my day....  I "realized" a rail on it's side makes a GREAT 2" cable swedge. It works well and quickly. Will I find I've destroyed my rail anvil now that it has 2 uses?

Gbl gbl

 

[Shainarue]

Ha! I swore I hopped in and suggested that very thing days ago but I scrolled through and I've posted nothing. Sigh. Glad you figured it out though! That railroad rail can be a very versatile anvil indeed. I still use mine even though I've since gotten a London style anvil. 

[Pigsticker]

Thank you s. I was wondering what  I was missing. Simple solutions are usually  really degenerative. I thought it'd look like some bully broke my rail and kicked me off the beach when I went down.

Pig 

Gbl gbl 

Thanks for chiming in

 

 

 

Mail rail even whispered to me she'd go up to 2.5" cable no problem