Peter wright partly missing face

[TravisM]

Hi everyone,  today I picked up a peter wright 2 0 0 weight with a clearly busted top. The price was ok and the rest of the anvil still had pretty good ring and rebound.  I'm wanting to fix the broken part but not sure how to go about it.  Any heavy hardy use can be on my other anvil which is a bit bigger and not broken. I can weld fairly well and I have a supply of some 9260 at 8mm thick. My first thought was to harden a suitable size plate then weld it to the broken heel and grind it all back. Any thoughts would be appreciated.  Thanks

[JHCC]

There are a number of good threads here on IFI about anvil repair, but I will summarize:

1. Don't try to harden a plate and weld it on. 
   1. Preheating and post-heating the anvil to get a good weld will spoil the heat treatment of the existing face.
   2. Heat from welding will ruin the hardness of the repair plate.
   3. A plate with just the edges welded will not perform well, and the welds will eventually crack.
2. It is possible to build up a broken section with hardfacing rods (see Gunter-Schuler method), but:
   1. It's expensive and time-consuming.
   2. It's not for amateurs.
   3. The pre- and post-heating issues in #1 above are still at play.

Your best course of action is therefore:

1. Leave this anvil alone and use it as-is. 
2. Use your existing anvil and its hardy hole whenever you need anvil tooling.

Apart from the missing section of the face and those gouges in the edge (torch scars, maybe?), the anvil looks to be in great shape. Just give it a good wire brushing and put it to work.

Out of curiosity, what was the "ok price"?

[Frosty]

I had to look it up but 9260 is an abrasion resistant alloy not really suitable for high impact use like an anvil face. Proper heat treatment is an issue and likely not compatible with the anvil's existing face. And NO, as John said above perimeter welding a plate on an anvil is a poor repair with a high probability of ruining the existing face. 

Unless you're an experienced welder and have done it before a weld buildup repair of an anvil has a strong risk of damaging or ruining the existing face. 

I strongly suggest you use your new anvil as is and your other anvil when bottom tooling is required. I usually use another anvil for bottom tooling when I'm switching from face to tooling frequently. 

Frosty The Lucky.

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

I agree with JHCC and Frosty. If you are still thinking of repairing it, check this method JHCC mentioned.

Anvil Restoration

[Stash]

I don't mean to be piling on, but I concur with what was said by the others. As long as the remaining face plate is sound, just use her as- is.

Steve

[TravisM]

The anvil was $600 Aud, which is pretty good over here, and they are not really that common in the 100kg+ range around my area.  

The anvil pre heating and post heating to build up the face, is that really getting in the range to ruin a temper on the rest of the face ?  

I don't think I'll attempt it but how long would it take to build up that section with welding rods?

  

 

[JHCC]

The Gunter-Schuler method recommends preheating to 400F, which is itself borderline. The additional heat from the welding will ruin the temper in the heat-affected zone.

I can't speak to how long it would take; I suspect that would vary depending on the skill of the welder.

In the end, it's a cost/benefit analysis: even if everything goes perfectly, would having a rebuilt heel improve the functionality of the anvil sufficiently to justify the expense of time and consumables? Given that you already have another anvil that covers any presently missing functionality in this one, I would say No. 

[TravisM]

Well said,  I think I'd have to agree with you.  I guess there was just a part of me that wanted to make the anvil whole again.  Thanks for your help 

[JHCC]

My pleasure. Always glad to help a fellow smith think through their options.

[Frosty]

Most of us understand the desire to make old tools whole again unfortunately the risk sometimes outweighs the benefits. Explaining and exploring these things is what we do here. Well, besides showing pics, talking about projects, helping with problems and playing long pun threads. 

It's WHAT we do. 

Frosty The Lucky.

[anvil]

I'm the dissenter here. If you have the welding experience, its well worth repairing in my opinion and the Gunther method just cant be beat. Not only would I do the heel, but I'd do all edges and the face as well. That would bring your anvil up to literally brand new and ready for the next 300 years. Using a new anvil is a treat.  Your welding experience and desire are what matter. 

As for welding on a plate, not a good idea unless you can do a full weld. I helped a friend once and he plug welded it. 

However, without a doubt, your anvil will work just fine as is. If you remove a little material around the hardy hole, you can use it as well.

[TravisM]

Thanks for your reply.  Have you tried doing this before?     How did you go about the anvil pre heat and post heat? 

[Frosty]

I have, yes. Once to prevent someone from just taking his Dad's welder and "some rod" to his beautiful barely dinged anvil. One corner was missing about 1 1/2" x 2" of the face.

I preheated in a cut down 55gl drum slowly using a couple 20lb. sacks of charcoal briquettes and checked regularly with a 350f Tempil stick, there wasn't a 400f one available and I didn't have a laser temp gage.

The smallest quantity of rod was 10  lbs. and cost IIRC $140usd. It wasn't Stoody which would've been a special order and considerably more. I used a "steel on STONE" hard facing rod. Do NOT use steel on steel, it has the wrong properties! Yu want impact resistance NOT abrasion resistance. Harder is NOT better! rc60 is at the high end of useable for hard face rods. Harder tends to chip when you hit it. OR is checks like a dry mud puddle as it cools.

I HIGHLY recommend you use a blue cup grinding stone in your disk grinder to rough grind it and finish polish with disks. Be prepared to buy two cups they will wear, Hard facing rod is intended to withstand abrasion even the stuff not specifically alloyed to resist. Be prepared for hours of exhausting fun with your grinder.

Do NOT use a 4 1/2" grinder or it's almost impossible to get an even flat surface, 7" is much better buy them by arbor diameter and thread size NOT cup diameter!

I did all the welding with his anvil in the cut down preheat drum with burning charcoal around it. I covered the coals with aluminum foil to keep from roasting myself but the anvil is going to be radiating enough IR to burn you when you get within welding rod distance. Just wait till it burns down to a few inches or rod! A pair of welding gloves with heat reflective shields is a really good idea and only another $100 or so. Worth it though and you'll still have them.

I did all the welding and grinding while it was at preheat temp and tossed another bag of briquettes on and covered it to let burn out and cool over the next couple days. It was still way too hot to touch the next morning, by that evening it would've been safe to remove but why bother until the kid and his mother came to pick it up. 

I don't recall specific numbers but the rod was something in excess of $140/10lb. can the minimum quantity. two cup stones at IIRC about $60 ea. One was shot, I still have the second worn one. The welding gloves were somewhere north of $100 more than a decade ago. Something like 60lbs of cheap briquettes for pre/post heat. If I'd charged him my time as a welder I put in a good solid 10 hrs. in prep grinding, making tools fetching supplies and finish grinding. IIRC around $75+ for the copper chill blocks to keep the beads from running down the sides of thee anvil. Well worth the money!

I would've been into the kid $750-1000 just for my shop time with the club discount.

That was to weld up and finish a few square inches of face, not 1/3 of the whole beast. One 10lb. can might be enough but I'd have to run the deposition numbers and fudge factor. 

There is NOTHING inexpensive about the Gunther anvil repair method to do it right.

Frosty The Lucky.

 

[ThomasPowers]

When we repaired my large Trenton, (400+ #'s), we used a couple of propane weed burners for preheat with a sheet metal surround to help concentrate the BTU's.

[anvil]

I have refaced two anvils by my self and my experience matches Thomas, with one change. We had that wool insulating blanket to wrap the anvil in. Full face, edges, and rebuilding and reforging the horn. I dont remember time, but 
I certainly don"t remember starting early, and quitting late. And, yup, do your grinding with a 7" grinder. 

Frosty hits about every important point you should consider and Thomas and I represent a rather minimalist approach. Now you have a good range of options and can make your decision for your situation. 

I refaced my 255 trenton with 7018, a work hardening rod, and a few months later the Gunther method happened. Two friends and I did their shop anvils. Off and on we see each other and, of course compare anvil wear. Stoody wins hands down. 

Also, I don't remember the company that distributes Stoody, but if you cross reference Stoody numbers to the other manufacturer, they used to be much cheaper.

[TravisM]

Thankyou very much for sharing your experiences, I guess I'll see if I can get the right rods and make a decision if it's worth fixing or not . 

[JHCC]

On 5/27/2022 at 10:53 AM, anvil said:

If you remove a little material around the hardy hole, you can use it as well.

Another option (if you can only afford/are able to source a small quantity of rod) would be to build up a 1" or so perimeter around the hardy hole, flush with the anvil's face. That would give you a functioning hardy hole, practice with the welding, and a good idea whether or not to take the project any further.

[Frosty]

If you can't find Stoody or the equivalent in the supplier's books then look at hard face rod for rock crushers and do NOT buy high Rockwell hardness rod, no matter what anybody at the welding supply says! Keep it under 60rc, 50-55 is better! 

I spent too many (20+) years running hard face on drill steel and believe me NOBODY can afford the Cadillac rods I went to classes and seminars about hard facing rod till I hated the thought. Be thankful I just deleted an angry rant about having to deal with having to put up with ignorant wire and rod choices by the "Senoir" driller. 

Steel on rock moderate hardness, 50rc, 55rc MAX or find another vendor.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Laynne]

I recently repaired a mousehole anvil using the Gunter Schuler method, see "Repair or retirement" thread. It's not perfect or pretty but it's a good solid anvil. I'm not sorry I did it. I have enough rod left to do several more but, I won't be looking for any. It's a lot of work and can be frustrating. Be sure and use copper chill plates to contain the edges and keep the welds out of the pritchel and hardy hole.

[anvil]

Good for you! Thats excellent.  Shouldn't need to be done again for another 100 years or so.