French Anvil Identification

[Kid B]

Hey guys,

Long time reader, first time poster. I have worked out a deal to purchase this French anvil. I'm trying to learn more about it, however all my Google searches have come up empty. Does anyone know anything about the history of this particular anvil/maker? It appears to be cast steel, but that's the only thing I can figure out.

 

Thanks!

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

Welcome from the Ozark mountains. Where in the world do you cast a shadow? Sorry I can't help with the anvil. It looks very good to me and no matter who the maker is, if it passes the ring & rebound test's it is a good one. How heavy is it? We have some members here from France and Europe and I bet they will chime in shortly. 

[Kid B]

Thanks very much! I am from the Dallas, Texas, area. Very excited to put this anvil to work once I get it latergg this week. Looking forward to hearing from some European Anvil aficionados

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

We won't remember your location once leaving this post hence the suggestion to add it in your profile.

[Frosty]

Welcome aboard Kid B, glad to have you. If you put your general location in the header you'll have a much better chance of meeting up with members living within visiting distance. Telling us once in a post won't stick in anyone's memory after we open another one. 

Beautiful looking anvil. Have you done a rebound test on it? 

Frosty The Lucky.

[Kid B]

Frosty  thanks very much. I just updated the profile to show my location. I haven’t done a rebound test yet. I will do that when I go get it on Thursday. I only have a mild steel ball bearing so I don’t think that will work. Might just bring a hammer.

[Frosty]

Do the rebound test BEFORE you buy it, it may have gone through a fire and lost it's temper. Agreed, a mild steel ball won't work. A light smooth face hammer will do the trick.

Frosty The Lucky.

[BartW]

In France, in the city of Saint-Denis (Paris), there was a steel foundry called "Joris & Dambrun" ... like 50 years ago, they went bust during WO2.  It helps if you can search in french (I speak french & dutch, I'm from Belgium). They were known for producing lathes; apparantly they also made anvils.

As for quality & construction; in this part of the world the classic wrought iron body with a steel face were not very common; they were mostly cast steel anvils in the past 150 years. Most anvil producers held rather high quality standards and rejected about half of the castings. Access to high quality steel is also no issue in this part of the world. 

However, as Frosty said, the anvil made it across the pond, and it could have been in a fire. To be tested I suppose. 

[Kid B]

BartW thanks for this information! Very helpful. I’m going to research that brand to see if I can find anything about their lathes.

One question for you and/or Frosty. Does the fact that it came here from Europe make it somehow more likely that it could’ve been in a fire? 

[FlatLiner]

Just because it made it to the USA doesn't mean that it went through a fire. It most likely is a good anvil. Just do a hammer and ring test on it.

[Frosty]

No, it's not likely it's been through a fire or some other catastrophe that damaged the heat treatment on the anvil, you test to make SURE it hasn't. 

The reason to is because: "Hope for the best, Prepare for the worst and take what you get," just doesn't cut it when it's so easy to know.

It's like buying a used car. Do you spend an extra $100 and have a mechanic check it out before you buy it or pay him afterwards to figure out and fix what's wrong with it afterwards when it's too late to walk away? Hmmmm?

Frosty The Lucky.

 

[Kid B]

I just picked it up this morning. Overall it is in fantastic shape. Excellent rebound and very little damage from use over the years. I’ll attach some pics below. I’ll include a pic of what looks like the worst part of it along with a close up of the lettering. Also, looks like there’s a small crack in the casting on the underside but it only appears to be on the surface. If anyone can shed some light onto what the markings might mean I would much appreciate it. 

[Frosty]

Excellent score! Did you get a good deal? How much does it weigh?

Crack or casting defect on the bottom is . . . irrelevant unless maybe you're going to turn it upside down and use the handling hole to pry something hard, say straighten pry bars cold.  

It ain't a thing.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Kid B]

I wouldn't say it was a smoking deal, but yes, I am happy with it given that it's a useful tool and has a possible historical value. It weighs around 250 lbs. I will try to get an official weight soon, though I'm not sure how I'll pull that off just yet.

A little about the deal. Two years ago I bought a 278 lb Trenton in good shape from a guy for $340. A few weeks ago I purchased a nice big Wilton C2 vise from another guy for dirt cheap. While I was there, he showed me a French anvil he was thinking about selling. I knew the only way I could get the French one is if I sold the Trenton, so that's what I did. It was a difficult choice because I loved that Trenton, but the rarity of the French anvil made it cooler and possibly more valuable than the Trenton. I sold the Trenton for $1,400 and that's what I paid for this French anvil. So essentially, I got this French one for $340 (with the stand). Here's a pic of the Trenton and the French one for comparison. 

What do you guys think of the deal? Would you have kept the Trenton or gone with the French one? (French one is in a bit better shape.)

Edited April 21, 2022 by Mod30
Remove @name tag

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

I'd say ya done good, especially on the Trenton for $340 U.S. then the trade for the French anvil. We don't see many of the French anvils here. I think you are going to love the double horn, even with having to modify your hardy tools.

[Frosty]

I think you did very well, don't forget you got to use the Trenton for a couple years for a profit. 

Frosty The Lucky.

[JHCC]

Very good deal, indeed.

3 hours ago, Kid B said:

If anyone can shed some light onto what the markings might mean I would much appreciate it. 

 "Stand by the grey stone when the thrush knocks and the setting sun with the last light of Durin's Day will shine upon the key-hole."

[ThomasPowers]

I think you are ahead on usable features.  I know few smiths that buy a using anvil for it's "rarity".  Luckily you probably never need to try and find parts to repair it!

[MacLeod]

Looks a lot like my beautiful french mistress. The slanted hardy hole has proved to be very useful for me, when at first I thought it was terrible. Nice to see a tool being used.

[BartW]

The markings are fairly simple and self-explanatory:

Maker: "Joris et Dambrun" (company) 

location:  "a Paris"  (in or near Paris)

Serial nr: "N 30772"

Weight: "P 112 KG) (Poids 112 Kilograms)

I wouldn't worry about the "crack" in the bottom. These were cast up-side-down, so it could be a "molten-steel"-fold and not really a crack.  Once they cooled enough, the mold was broken open , maybe some refinements were made like the hardy hole ( so a bunch of burly dudes with 20 pounds sledges) .. then it was rolled outside and put under a water tap to harden, and after a specific amount of water the residual heat in the body tempered the anvil. They would return the day after, check the anvil, and start cleanup on big milling machines.  Fascinating proces to observe (I've seen it once in Belgium)

This method does result in fairly hard tips, this had advantages and disadvantages. The hardy hole is also specific sided; and you need to forge tooling for it, but first make a specific punch to push out stuck tools ( been there, got the T-shirt) .

 

[Kid B]

BartW

Thanks for this information! very helpful. I have hit the crack with a hammer. Lightly at first then progressively harder. Even with my hardest hit there was no sign of give at all. I think you are right it's just a little fold.

[TWISTEDWILLOW]

On 4/21/2022 at 4:02 PM, JHCC said:

Stand by the grey stone when the thrush knocks and the setting sun with the last light of Durin's Day will shine upon the key-hole."

We’re a little ways off from the last moon of autumn and the first sun of winter! 

I’d like to help but, no one can shed light on vises he does not have or anvils he has never experienced 

- Antonio Machado

-(parody by TWISTEDWILLOW) lol

[FlatLiner]

How in the world did the French punch or cast the side hardy hole? Those who have a French anvil, Do you prefer the side hardy hole over the location in an English style anvil or German style anvil?

[ThomasPowers]

Casting is easy, you just use a curved core.

[BartW]

Having used both, I prefer the German style anvils. Sometimes it's handy to be able to rotate a hardy tool and still make it fit. In the French setup; they cannot be rotated.

Most of my home-made hardy tools however fit so tight; and the hardy hole isn't perfectly square; they cannot be rotated anyways. But that's more my fault. If i'd take a couple more heats and made it fit while rotating ...

Also the french style anvil has a really cool long curve  on one side; which is very handy drawing out, even if the anvil is mounted too low or too high.