Building a New Smithy (picture heavy)

[Bantou]

I’m in the process of building a new smithy. The city shut down the one at my house a few weeks ago. (political content removed)

Fortunately, my folks offered for me to build something on their place a few miles outside of town. I’ve decided to go with a lean-to pole barn. It is 10’x12’ with a 10’ roof on the tall side and 9’ on the short side. Once complete, the roof will be salvaged metal R-panels. During the “cold” months (like we have much of that in Texas), I’m planning on tarping the sides to keep the wind off of me but allow me to open things up if it gets too hot. Total cost so far is a little over 100 USD, mostly on lumber (the poles and R-panels were free). I still need to get  the stove pipe for my new chimney and the stuff to run plugs on the outside of the existing shop. 

 

Poles staked out and rough locations for forge (half barrel), anvil (pool filter), and post vice (broken fireplace).

 

Holes dug using a boom-tip digger borrowed from work (with permission)

 

Poles set and tamped

First set of rafters installed. Hopefully, I can get the rest of the rafters up, the R-panel installed, and my stuff moved over tomorrow. I’d like to be up and running again by next Friday.  

Edited September 27, 2021 by Mod30
Political content

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

Back to your smithy build, it appears to be very close to the building and it's air conditioner, if that wall is going to be solid, I would think it may interfere with the A/C exhaust causing problems. Also if a shop fire was to get started, I'm pretty sure the adjacent building would also be lost.

Edited September 27, 2021 by Mod30
Political content

[Bantou]

I’m not all that concerned about my shop catching fire. There honestly won’t be much in there to burn. It has a dirt floor, no walls, the poles are relatively fire resistant (I’ve seen similarly treated poles barely smolder after being subjected to serious prolonged heat), and the roof is tall enough to not catch without a veritable bone fire under it. My coal is stored in a metal trash can with the lid on unless I need to add another scoop to the fire. The building will only have power when I am there working. I bought a decent sized ABC fire extinguisher to mount in an easy to access location; and, I always keep a 5 gallon bucket full of water handy. Worst case scenario, the fire is still unlikely to spread to the building next to mine. The other building is all metal construction with fiberglass insulation; it would take quite a fire to transfer over. 
 

The window unit is rarely used and would not be used at all during the period that I would have the wall tarps rolled down. My brother and I installed it when we were using the “shop” area of the garage as a reloading room. That area is now mostly used for storage. 

Edited September 27, 2021 by Mod30
Political content

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

Guess you are good to go then.

[ThomasPowers]

Keep your eye out for some rolling barn door track and fittings.  It can easily make half of one wall moveable to let air in and heat out, yet close up for bad weather and be lockable against "casual theft".

My 20'x30' shop extension was done on the cheap using used trusses, free utility poles and free propanel (both used and new overruns) and of course a dirt floor.  Been a decade and I'm still real happy with it!  Luckily I have a 5 acre field next to it and a neighbor playing fast and loose with the zoning behind it---and I predate his moving there by a decade and a half.

[TWISTEDWILLOW]

Aww bummer all my stuff got removed I guess no beans on the forge for me lol

I do agree with Irondragon that the proximity of the forge to the building is a little on the spooky side, 

I had a stove pipe burn out last year and it dropped embers and caught the field on fire behind the shop, the wind was blowing hard and it took off! It was pretty scary fighting the fire by myself, I’m lucky I heard the crackling of brush burning when I did or it could have ended worse! 
 

maybe line that side of your smithy with sheet metal or nail up a big welding blanket just for added safety! Because if a fire does break out it may get to big to quick for your fire extinguisher to handle, just my opinion, 

[Scott NC]

5 hours ago, TWISTEDWILLOW said:

Aww bummer all my stuff got removed I guess no beans on the forge for me lol

  Don't feel too bad, I once had an entire thread deleted by admin among other things.     

  Bantou, I have to build myself a shop so I am going to follow your progress and study this sub-forum so I get it right.

[TWISTEDWILLOW]

Lol It’s okay Nodebt,

I understand why this thread got cleaned up by Mod30, there were a few comments made that could potentially offend our brother and sister blacksmiths who serve as Leo’s, and some things that were said weren’t 100% fair or true about all Leo's! 
 
just like it wouldn’t be fair to say everyone in Oklahoma lives in a shack an hunts for food! 

besides nothing I had posted was really that important, like I said beans on the forge lol, 

 

[Bantou]

9 hours ago, ThomasPowers said:

Keep your eye out for some rolling barn door track and fittings.  It can easily make half of one wall moveable to let air in and heat out, yet close up for bad weather and be lockable against "casual theft".

I’ll definitely do that. Theft isn’t much of a risk but having something solid to keep the wind off would be nice.

6 hours ago, TWISTEDWILLOW said:

I had a stove pipe burn out last year and it dropped embers and caught the field on fire…
 

maybe line that side of your smithy with sheet metal or nail up a big welding blanket just for added safety! 

I’m planning on putting and ember guard on top of the chimney to prevent the odd spark. The risk of starting a grass fire is significantly higher than a fire in the smithy. There is a field next to the smithy that only gets mowed a couple times a year. There just isn’t enough combustible material in the smithy itself to create a large fire even if one manages to start. I don’t keep fuel (with the exception of a metal trash can of coal) or accelerants in my smithy. 

[ThomasPowers]

Hey when I lived in OKC I lived in a shack; built in the 1920's or 30's from RR shipping crates---still had the names stenciled on when we opened a wall, and that was the best built part of the house!   I also would hunt for food when I was out in the oil patch, mainly fish and wild plums...I had great great uncles who lived in soddies and my Grandfather used to live in a Fishing shack on lake Tenkiller.   Long PROUD history of shack living and hunting for some of us!

[Michael]

An old friend, who started me in smithing back in the early 2000's, would run a sprinkler in the grass next to his shop while forging, against stray sparks.

Grass in my yard is dry as a bone and I'll spray it down with the hose before lighting up solid fuel, along with topping off the slack tub and filling a bucket I can get my whole foot into (don't ask), a charged hose is part of the regular smithing setup.  Not something you can always do at demos but it works at home.

Ember blocks, just screening screwed in at the top and bottom of the chimney, also help.

[Bantou]

What size/alloy steel would you recommend to make hangers to put my long stock on? I’m thinking an “L” shaped bracket of 1/2” A36 round should be ok; but, I can’t seem to find WLL data. They will be bolted to the poles along the right side of the building (one one closest to the neighboring building). 
 

Something like this

[swedefiddle]

Turn your drawings upside down and put some triangles in them. Steel doesn't come lightly,

Neil

[Glenn]

How much weight are you wanting to support, and across how many brackets?  Calculate the lever arm for that weight and distance from the wall to see if the wall can even support that additional load.

Make the wall attachment 8 inches above and another 8 inches below the 6 inch shelf. A diagonal brace from the bottom of the lower 8 inch wall attachment plate to the bottom of the 3 inch lip will better support any load you put on the 6 inch shelf.

[Bantou]

I work with small stock <1” and usually either 3/8” or 1/2” so maybe 300 hundred pounds max over two brackets. The poles should support just about anything I can put on them. They are retired utility poles buried 4ft deep and tied together with 2x4’s.

You’re  recommending something like this?

[Glenn]

3/8 round bar is 8 pounds per 20 feet, and 1/2 inch round bar is 14 pounds per 20 feet.

That bracket design is the idea.  The weight is transferred toward the bottom of the bracket, and the top of the bracket mostly holds the lever arm to the post.

It would suggest a separate set of brackets for each different size stock.  Makes finding what you are looking for a lot easier.  5 brackets per size stock makes loading and unloading the stock easier, as well as giving the stock better support.  It is also a way to premeasure the length of the cut stock.

Depending on the size of the shop, you may want to put a mouse hole in the wall.  Swing a 20 foot long piece of limber stock around will take a minimum of a 25 foot diameter circle.  Cutting that stock will take 20 feet of space on either side of the saw blade.  Depending on the size of the projects you work on, you can cut the stock in half (10 feet) to make handling a bit easier.  Consider the spacing of the brackets to hold 5 foot long pieces of stock.  Stock 4 feet long or shorter can be stored vertically.  Always cut from the shortest piece of stock first.  

It takes some design planning, but you can design your projects to use even numbers of lengths from a 20 foot piece of stock and save yourself time and have little or no waste.  That 20 feet of stock is 2 ten foot sections, 4 five foot sections, 5 four foot sections, etc.  A 5 foot section is a 2 footer and a 3 footer, and a 4 foot section is 2 two foot sections, with no waste.   

Attaching a one foot length of PVC pipe to the bottom of the wall, and then attaching say a 4 inch section of pipe above tha,t to hold specific lengths of stock, will save you bunches of time as you no longer have to measure.  If it stands above the 3 foot ring, it is 3 foot or longer, over the 4 foot ring is 4 feet or longer.  How simple you make your life is up to you. (grin)

[Bantou]

This level of advice is why I love this site. I have my stock cut into 10’ sections because it is easier to handle and will fit in the truck bed. The poles are ~6ft apart. I was planning on putting the brackets on the first two poles and leaving the back pole bare for a work bench. It wouldn’t be hard to frame in something to add an extra bracket or two.

I was already planning to hang a set of brackets for the two diameters I typically use and a third set for oddball sizes. Thinking about it, I may add some more brackets for different types of stock as well (square, flat, etc). Using pipe to store my short pieces hadn’t even crossed my mind though. 
 

Right now, I only keep a maximum of 100’ of any given stock on hand at a time. Most of my projects only use a couple feet of steel (steak flippers, grilling tools, bottle openers, etc). I have some ideas for larger projects but I haven’t drawn them up yet, let alone attempted them. 

[ThomasPowers]

 A smith once told me "The way to make a profit is to use up your shorts".  He explained that on large jobs the cost of the steel is factored in; but on small jobs being able to make them from "scraps"  really helped the bottom line.  To use them up you have to be able to find them without wasting time hunting.

With the brackets suggested you should be able to put the sq stock on top and slide the round stock in the angle---keeping each size to it's own bracket.

[Bantou]

And again, something stupid simple that hadn’t even crossed my mind. Thank you. 

[ThomasPowers]

Well it does require enough space to be able to draw them out of the closed angle.    If your roof overhang is long enough perhaps mounting them to the outside?

[Glenn]

43 minutes ago, Bantou said:

something stupid simple that hadn’t even crossed my mind

Only because the rest of us spent too much time and effort trying to figure out simple. (grin)

[ThomasPowers]

My "intermediate" lengths are stored vertically in a "weldable metal" display I found at the scrapyard. As my walls are 10' high I generally store my 10's vertically too.

 about time to sort it by type again...

[Bantou]

3 hours ago, ThomasPowers said:

Well it does require enough space to be able to draw them out of the closed angle.    If your roof overhang is long enough perhaps mounting them to the outside?

I thought about that. The only wall I can really put it on is the one closest to the other building, if I want to be able to enclose the building in the winter. I’m not sure that there is enough room over there to allow adequate access with brackets mounted on the outside. 

 

I’d love to have a display like the one you have. I can get 3” schedule 80 pvc cut offs for free from work though. So, I’ll probably just use those. 

[ThomasPowers]

Don't ask me what I did with them before I found the display!

[Bantou]

Probably something like what I’m doing right now; stuffed into 5 gallon buckets or laid in a pile on the ground.