Hurrican Ida Stole My Church's Sign

[Purple Bullet]

...and I want to replace it. The church I go to is in Kenner, Louisiana and about the only thing that separates our site from Lake Pontchartrain is a road and a pumping station. Every time a storm blows through we lose our sign. It was one of those aluminum/plastic laminate sheets in two sections that slides into a slot on the frame. We usually still have the empty frame, but I'm not sure about this time. I was told the sign is gone again, but not given any details. The sign is double-sided and sets perpendicular to the road. Due to ordinances passed since our original sign was built, we can't go any larger on the sign and if we were starting with a new sign today it would have to be much smaller. The sign is roughly 6' X 6'

What I would like to do, is cut the letters for the sign out of some 16 gauge cutoffs of 304 and 316 stainless I picked up from a machine shop and mount them on a sheet of 13 gauge flattened expanded metal sheet with 3/4" holes. Before mounting, the expanded metal would be cut and welded to fit the frame and coated with a colored truck bed coating (color would be a burgundy or maroon). So far, this is straight forward. If Ida hadn't also swamped my CNC plasma table it would be a breeze. I don't think it will be that difficult to cut them by hand, though.  This sign will let the wind blow through it rather than act as a sail.

The thing I would like some input from the great expertise of IFI is the logo. It is an open Bible with a (probably poor representation of a) Roman short sword (gladius?) that is laid diagonally across it.  This has been just printed on the sign in the past. I would like to add some dimensionality without producing something someone would want to cut off and use as a sword.  (DIGRESSION ALERT!) There is a bridge in Lake Charles, Louisiana that has cast crossed flintlock dueling pistols all along the railing. There was a time when college kids would hacksaw some of these off to decorate their dorm rooms, or so I was told.

I've never done any repousse work, but I'm thinking that's what I'll need for the sword handle. Stainless would be kind of hard to work, I would think. I can acetylene braze and weld very well. I have a TIG but I haven't really developed that skill yet.  I also have some thin gauge aluminum plate. I'm thinking a few cuts and folds and aluminum braze would do for the blade. 

I'm still in the planning stage and would appreciate any input how to execute this. I can't start until we get power back and that might be weeks. I loaned out my little 5kw shop generator to someone whose need was greater.

[George N. M.]

Purp,  I've done some things for my old church and here is how I would approach it:  I would make the book out of fairly heavy steel sheet metal, 18-12 gauge, by folding it in half and the folding the 2 halves back to form the pages (If you wanted to get fancy and a church job is, IMO, a case of too much is never enough) you could strike in text on the pages.  Maybe not 2 whole pages but something shorter like John 3:16 or something else.)  The pages would be curved to look like an open book.

Then for the gladius I would use something that looks like a sword but isn't attractive to vandals.  Maybe a silhouette cut out of aluminum or copper and in fairly light gauge.  I'd attach it to the book by rivets or bolts.  There may be something said for allowing it to be sacrificial and allowing vandals/thieves to detach it fairly easily and then have replacements that can be easily put back up.

You could also do it in 2 pieces, say hilt and blade, which when mounted look like a whole weapon but when detached fall into 2 separate pieces.

The original bible would have been on scrolls rather than a bound book but never mind that.

You also could think of some sort of unique font for the letters, italic, gothic, Times New Roman, something classy.

I have always enjoyed making things for the church.  I was told that I have an iron ministry.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

[ThomasPowers]

I'd start with a fast openwork CNC Plasma cut sign  mounted on good hinges so the wind can whistle through it and it will deflect rather than get torn off.

Meanwhile you can work on on the more involved repousse version...(which I would also hinge!)

[Purple Bullet]

Thanks guys. My fiber optic cable was cut by a tall load on a flat bed truck and cellular is hit and miss. I’ll have to take my planning off line til I can get it back.☹️

[Purple Bullet]

Progress! After two weeks on generator power, we're back on the mains. I had a slightly longer delay because the youthful lineman hooked up one of my legs to the neutral rather than the other hot line. When I flagged down a roving crew, he looked up at the connection and just laughed. If I'd tried to fire up something on 220V I don't think it would have been so amusing. Anyway, my shop is operational again. We still don't have fiber-optic, but I'm learning the joys of using a hot spot.

I'd purchased a Hobart Airforce 12 plasma torch just before the storm. It got wet, but after drying well it worked fine. I cut out most of the lettering for the sign by hand. The lettering I have to duplicate and will mount on 16 gage 3/4" mesh flattened expanded metal. The shadows of the letters on the opposite side will show through, but I intend to polish the 304 stainless so the contrast should be pretty good. 

I've been thinking more about the logo. The real Bible and sword was a graphic I made for our local TV show, but on letterhead and business cards we use a line drawing. Since I have my forge back, I'm thinking about the possibility of reproducing the drawing in a cut out section of the expanded metal using 1/4" round stock to make the lines. The "words" on the page will be too small to be read from the street, but I think I may actually put a scripture in as suggested. I may have to use a thin piano wire to make them appear suspended. However, on one side the whole thing will be a mirror image of what folks are used to seeing. Maybe I could make two and place a solid sheet of the 304 between them. The only problem with that will be the rust that will inevitably stain the 304 from the carbon steel.

[Frosty]

I've got a little Frosty brainstorming for your project.

What the voices are saying to me is form the pages from light gauge stainless sheet with more arc from the spine so the top few pages would be pulled back off the lower more flat pages. Is the image coming across? Then chase the edges to define individual pages. 

The binding would provide the structure and a closed box to contain and protect whatever lighting you wish to use. CNC laser cut the text and colored LED lighting could provide some attention getting effects. If you want to get a little fancier and install fiber optics in the sword it could be programmed to have flames. Rippling FLAMES! For those special occasions. Hmmm?

Another thought is put the sword a few inches away from the pages and light the Bible from the hidden side of the blade. This poses other problems like making text appear clearly. On the up side, lighting with the sword would make the chased page edges stand out more clearly.

If the sign were two closed boxes back to back as described above it would be structurally strong and hard to rip off in the wind. It could be connected to the post at several points, making the standard stronger in the bargain.

Not cheap nor easy but . . . Hmmm?

Frosty The Lucky.

[Purple Bullet]

Frosty, We're not THAT kind of church!  Rippling flames?  Actually, my pastor might like that idea, but he will probably never hear of it. Our church is about as conservative as a full-gospel church can be.

The stainless pages, cut to give perspective, bent and chased on the edges is pretty close to what I originally thought. Its scary that our voices somewhat agree, however, the more I think about the execution of it, the more I'm not sure that is in my skill set. I could make a replica "Bible" and sword, but I'm not sure how to do that with proper perspective that would not stick out a foot and a half either side of the sign. It needs to be like a bas-relief that only sticks out a couple of inches. 

You got me thinking about the lighting. I think I DO have the skill set to produce two flat "drawings in iron" of the logo and put them either side of a milky white plastic sheet and edge-light around the sheet with LEDs. With the plastic in the middle I could even do the lettering on the Bible pages on that rather than suspended on wire.

For now I'm going to get the expanded metal, (as soon as my local supplier opens up again) weld it up and cut to size, coated and apply the letters. I'll have a blank spot in the middle for the logo. I probably won't get anything done on that until after Quad State. I might get a whole new set of ideas there.

[Frosty]

The spirit of brainstorming ideas is to throw out whatever comes to mind, regardless of anything but maybe decency. 

The chased pages I suggested would be from a single sheet of stainless per sigh side. Fold the sheet literally down the middle and crease it for the spine, then unfold it so the outside edges lay flat. The sheet will naturally form the curved surface of an open book, it's under the same forces. Chasing individual pages is as simple as drawing lines top to bottom from the perspective of reading the book. Then clamp a 2 x 4 centered behind a "page" line and chase the page edge on the side of the line away from the spine. The soft wood will support the work but give enough to make a clear indentation. The tool you need will be like a small 1" sq. set hammer, a flat face with a SLIGHT crown a straight edge with a slight radius. The idea is to chase the sheet like stair steps, 2-3 will be enough to give people the image of pages in a book.

You aren't making pages, just an image that represents pages, people's perception will do the rest.

Take a pair of tin snips to a steel soup can, flatten it and give chasing a try, it's not hard, you'll get the hang of it quickly. Honest.

Making a flat sign as you describe is just a matter of cutting and joining the pieces. How do you propose to make it strong enough to survive storm winds next time? There is that big area only supported around the edges, that's a problem. It WILL flex in the wind and enough flexing will weaken and eventually break welds and once welds start breaking it will tear loose. 

I only have one thought for reinforcing the sign against flexing, not eliminate flex, that ain't going to happen, but maybe keep it from over stressing the joins. I think angling the sword more corner to corner and lengthening it to reach would allow you to use it as a diagonal reinforcing member. The opposite side if the sign is reversed so the diagonal member crosses opposite corners reinforcing the whole sign. I'd put a slight arc in the swords so clamping the ends to weld to the frame puts pressure against the sign, think of a spring clamp. 

No flames <sigh> No fancy, simple sign, Bible and sword. CNC laser cut text would back light. The chosen scripture might look better as a banner below the Bible sculpture. Making it large enough to read might be too much out of scale on the pages. That's not my call, I'm just noodling ideas and possible construction methods.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Purple Bullet]

... and I DO appreciate it, Frosty. I'll grab some tin cans (lots of those around - they haven't picked up our garbage for two weeks!) and give it a try. Kind of like forging modeling clay to see what works. Good thoughts about the sword(s) as well, but if I use 304 ss for the sword and the Bible I won't need to cut the underlying expanded metal. I'll just mount it on top and will probably use rivets or small bolts to attach via tabs bent under the sword. The expanded metal will be carbon steel ( due to my lack of skill in welding aluminum or stainless) that will be coated with truck bed liner to eliminate corrosion due to dissimilar metals. 

[Purple Bullet]

I realize it has been a while, but it takes me time to learn new skills. At 70, I'm living proof that you CAN teach an old dog new tricks. It just takes longer. I've had the main part of the sign replaced for some time. The expanded metal was commercially powder coated. The letters and numerals I powder coated myself, using my heat treating oven. I bought a book on chase and repoussé, experimented on cans and other pieces of scrap and finally produced what the voices were telling Frosty and I about. It has been sitting out for a couple of weeks, now. The one big fear I had was that using carbon steel tools would produce a lot of rust on the 16 gauge 304 stainless. So far it hasn't. 

The sword was made separate from the Bible. I cut a little stand-off of stainless and brazed them all together. It would take a battery sawzall with a good blade to get that off. What I would do differently, if I were to do it again, would be to use a lighter gauge stainless and make it bigger. However, that may increase the wind load and that was the whole point of the design, to reduce the wind load for the NEXT hurricane.

Chase and repousse' is kind of fun. I'm thinking of making a one piece version for the front of the pulpit.

I'm still thinking about the LED's under the sword... but no, no multicolored ones, Frosty.

[TWISTEDWILLOW]

That turned out awesome Purple Bullet! 

be careful or your gonna have everyone wanting you to make them signs! Lol

[JHCC]

That turned out great, PB! Nice job!

If you want to increase the size of the bible but don't want to increase the wind load too much, you might try putting a gap down the middle that would be covered by the sword. Since the sword has a bit of a stand-off, that would create a channel in the center to allow air to pass through before the wind pressure reaches the sign's fail point.

If you put LEDs under the sword, you could wire them to chase around the perimeter of the blade. Just sayin'....

[Purple Bullet]

Thanks. BTW, I don't want to be remiss in thanking George and Thomas as well as Frosty for goading me into this solution and learning something new. Also Les for inviting me to LAMA and clueing me on rounding my chisel corners to smooth my lines.

[ThomasPowers]

Nicely Roman sword!  Drilling little holes and mounting red LEDs in it for drops of blood NOT SUGGESTED!

I like the idea of a matching one for the pulpit; perhaps with the Bible ontop of the sword and an etched verse on the open pages?

[Purple Bullet]

I DID try to put verses. I didn't think of etching, though. Acid wouldn't work well on 304 but a stencil to sandblast through would. One of the problems I ran into was that it is difficult to match the angle and slant of the Bible to the text. The worse problem was that since my CNC plasma got soaked in Ida, I was making all the cuts by hand, and no, I don't have your wife's skill at calligraphy. Since I was cutting by hand, I wanted a smooth surface to "write" on. I left "hangers" on the o's, d's, b's and e's. It wasn't great, but looked OK until I started to hammer the chase and repousse'. The hangers broke from the repeated vibration. I tried to braze them back but that is too fine work for me. I couldn't get them is position and braze without messing up everything. Like my pastor said, you wouldn't be able to read anything from the distance that most people view it.

[ThomasPowers]

For the inside one; perhaps silver solder bronze letters on?   I know they make a silver solder for stainless.

[Frosty]

That turned out very nicely PB, well done!

Is there a problem with people sawing through fasteners and stealing things like this? If so, slip Tig Tungstens inside SS tubing as your rivets. Even a diamond sawzall blade won't touch them, the tungstens will just rotate in the tubing. Any blade less than diamond will blunt instantly on contact. 

There are other anti saw blade tricks, if you think they're necessary give me a shout.

I still think hooking the sword up to a propane line and spark igniter to make a flaming sword would make your church world famous. 

Frosty The Lucky.

[Purple Bullet]

Ha! ROTFL! Indubitably! but SOME fame is to be avoided. Thanks again.

[Les L]

Great job Purple Bullet. 

[taylorJ]

Very nice work! well done!