Buzzkill Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 When these burners are constructed correctly it is normal to be unable to keep them lit in open air without a flare on the end. You have a minor flare of sorts which should make it slightly easier to keep the flame on the end of the burner, but the back pressure in the forge is what really helps keep the flame where we want it. Even in the forge it is sometimes necessary to run the burner at low pressure until the forge interior begins to glow before the pressure can be raised without blowing the flame off the end. The bell shaped reducer fitting you had to begin with is probably more likely to allow you to get a flame to stay on the burner in open air. Once you get the zinc off those parts and reassemble everything let's see if you can get a low pressure stable flame on the end of your burner. Mikey said he doesn't think your mig tip is centered in the mixing tube. If true that will definitely affect the burner performance. Personally I find that pictures can sometimes be a bit deceiving due to the angle of the camera. However, as Mikey suggested, you can hook a water source that has a little pressure to the burner and shoot it through the mig tip to see how well the water stream is centered in the mixing tube. If your regulator does indeed have a flow limiter built into that is likely to keep your burner from functioning properly. We should be able to zero in on some of these issues soon if you bear with us though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 Sorry if I came across a little too strong, I was having a day. When I see someone doing something dangerous I get going on a calm day. In part, you aren't the only person I'm warning, there are more than 50,000 members in about 150 countries around the world and that's not counting folks who just read without joining. Lots of people will look at one thread or post and miss previous warnings and or not know about basic safety practices. It makes some of us sound pretty reactionary. I understand not being able to find things and if galvy is what you can get it's what you use. Stripping it is perfect. I'll be happy to help you tune or and correct mistakes or heck sometimes the parts we buy aren't right. I need a few pics. I need one of the mig tip as tuned (adjusted) from an angle straight through the intake ports in the T fitting. I need a pic of it not working properly. If it's blowing out try to time a pic so I can see it blowing out. No videos please, they aren't very informative other than the audio. I'll let you know if I need to hear it. At what psi is your regulator set or the gauge read when you light it? I don't need a picture of the gauge nor regulator, I'm pretty sure you can read. My reason for not putting the 1/4 turn shutoff valve on the burner is the weight on the jet fittings and the leverage of hanging the hose farther from the fittings than necessary. Except when I'm using a manifold feeding a multiple burner forge I put the shutoff valve on the output side of the regulator. This does two things, the jet has to support less weight against less leverage AND you aren't holding your hand directly over the burner when you turn it on or off so you aren't likely to lose hair if something catastrophic goes wrong. I don't encourage gauges, everybody's burner is an individual machine largely due to variables in construction with environment coming in second. If you read the threads you see lots of folks obsessing about pressure and ignoring the problem. Even when someone points out what's wrong. 10psi should be in the ballpark and 5psi near the bottom of the curve. Pick one and stick with it, I usually run 7 to tune but bear in mind what I said in the above paragraph, Sorry, I'm rambling again aren't I? Post some pics and we'll get started. Jer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wpmforge Posted July 13, 2021 Author Share Posted July 13, 2021 Hey Frosty, thanks for the response. The regulator I am using doesn't have any way to tell an exact psi to my knowledge (however, I wouldn't put it past me to glance over something like that lol). I'll take the pics and post them for you... Side note: when trying a bit of a shorter MIG tip again we were able to get the flame to stay lit at a very low pressure, so I'll try to include a pic of that tonight as well. Thank you so much for trying to help an ignorant soul such as my self haha. Took a few pics… at a little bit of a higher pressure if I hold a flame to it the propane will burn on the end of the tube but go out as soon as I take the torch away. I took a pic of the biggest I could get the flame to burn on its own. Took a note from buzzkill and put the old reducer on the end which made it burn slightly better. Thanks for all the help so far guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 Okay, you have a flame there, we can work with that. How do you know it's "very low pressure,"? There are no calibration marks on the reg and you don't have a gauge. If I had to guess the quality control on that regulator is poor and you have no idea. How far are you turning the knob from what you think of as 10psi. "maybe" and very low? The way it's looking in the pic try putting the coupler on it and trying again. DO NOT CHANGE ANYTHING ELSE! You're trouble shooting and you keep changing several things at a time. All that is is guessing and hoping luck will come through. Change one thing at a time, test, take notes and compare to previous notes. I REALLY need to write up a trouble shooting NA burner publication. I keep having to explain the basics over and over. My fault. <sigh> Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wpmforge Posted July 14, 2021 Author Share Posted July 14, 2021 Couldn’t get a flame going this time with the coupler on the end… it only burns if we cover the holes in the T somewhat. In regard to the regulator, I’m turning it about 1/2-3/4 of a turn in order to get the flame with the reducer on the end. I turn it to the point where I can just barely hear propane coming out of the tip. If I turn it any higher the flame goes out. Thanks for your help. wpmforge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 Turn it down a LITTLE BIT. 1/16 turn is a pretty large regulator adjustment until we get your burner tuned. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wpmforge Posted July 14, 2021 Author Share Posted July 14, 2021 If I turn the regulator almost to zero with the coupler on it the flame will start to sputter in between the end of the pipe and the tip of the MIG tip. It doesn’t stay on the end of the pipe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzzkill Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 Then that's too low pressure and/or an alignment problem with the mig tip in relation to the mixing tube. What really matters is where the fuel stream is aimed inside the tube. It's possible to have the mig tip itself perfectly centered, but a burr or piece of debris deflect the gas stream off center. Whenever you modify the mig tip you should always use a torch tip file or something similar to ensure the hole is not obstructed - if you haven't already done that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wpmforge Posted July 14, 2021 Author Share Posted July 14, 2021 We used a tip file on the MIG tip when we cut it. The tip seems to be pointing straight down, although we could try to put a slight bend in it to adjust the alignment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted July 15, 2021 Share Posted July 15, 2021 INSTEAD of turning it down a LITTLE BIT 1/16 turn, you turned the regulator almost all the way off. Your burner went from close to right to won't work at all. This sort of random guesswork is why you haven't had any luck. I won't waste any more of your time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted July 15, 2021 Share Posted July 15, 2021 Your first photo, under magnification, shows the MIG tip to be a little out of axial alignment, and not centered with the mixing tube. However both misalignment and off-center positioning are toward the same side, so bending the tip a bit will do your burner a maximum amount of good for a minimum amount of effort. BUT, the chance of getting it right is pretty low, unless you use the water test to see were just right is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wpmforge Posted July 17, 2021 Author Share Posted July 17, 2021 Ok thank you for your help. Sorry I wasted so much of your valuable time Frosty, I guess I misunderstood some directions. I appreciate all the attempts. Got some Amazon burners and they’re working out great so far. All the best… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted July 17, 2021 Share Posted July 17, 2021 Sorry, I was having one of THOSE days and was snapping at everybody. My bad. Glad you found something that works for you. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurum79 Posted May 25, 2022 Share Posted May 25, 2022 Does anyone know if elevation would cause this setup to be more finicky or not work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted May 25, 2022 Share Posted May 25, 2022 What setup Aurum? Nobody can answer your question in a meaningful way without some details like what is being finicky. I can assume it's a burner and take a wild guess what basic type but it won't do you any good. Sorry if I sound snarky, I'm trying not to be. I'll do my best to help you but we need details. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted May 25, 2022 Share Posted May 25, 2022 Enough elevation can make problems with your burner running weak. Sounds like you have very different troubles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted May 25, 2022 Share Posted May 25, 2022 My T burner runs fine at a mile high; I tested another type of burner at 7000' and someday, if I( can get permission, I'd like to take a forge up to the Magdalena ridge Observatory at 10K'. I've been to 16400' without a forge and I can say that I did not even walk properly at that altitude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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